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View Poll Results: Which is more scientific? Homeopathy or Allopathy
Homeoapthy 13 61.90%
Allopathy 3 14.29%
Can't Say 5 23.81%
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  #521 (permalink)  
Old 14th April 2011, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Nancy Malik View Post
Schultz published various examples of yeast growth stimulation by using subtoxic concentrations of various poisons such as iodine, bromine, arsenious acid etc.

1896: Hueppe, a bacteriologist extended the findings to bacteria

1943: Southam and Ehrlich coined the term 'hormesis' to describe this. Hormesis is an adaptive response that is induced by stimulation at low doses and inhibition at high doses. Hormesis ensures homeo-stasis is maintained.

1945: Miller et al. confirmed that at low doses penicillin actually stimulated the growth of Staphylococcus.
Yes, and what has this to do with homeopathy? These are ALL about pharmacological doses of substances with known effects.

Hans
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Old 15th April 2011, 02:41 AM
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Default Arndt-Schultz law

For example Schultz published examples such as very weak concentrations of iodine, bromine, mercuric chloride and arsenic acid will enhance the development of yeast (fungus), moderate dosages of these elements will suspend it and large dosages will kill it.

In other words, substances vary in action depending on whether the concentration is high, medium, or low. This is known as ‘bi-phase response’ i.e. every medicine has two action phases that depend upon dosage.

Therefore, rather than the effectiveness of a medicine increasing with the increase of the dosage, research has consistently proven that very small dosages of a substance have the opposite result of larger ones. For example, it has been proven that the usual medical dosages of atropine inhibit the parasympathetic system and cause dryness in the pituitaries, while very small dosages cause increased secretions.
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Old 18th April 2011, 07:08 AM
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More about relationship of homeopathy to hormesis at http://www.siomi.it/siomifile/siomi_pdf/BELLE_newsletter.pdf




The idea/concept of ‘Arndt-Schultz law’ had first been mentioned by P.A. Paracelsus (1493-1541). He said, “All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." He said, “It depends only on the dose whether a poison is poison or not”.
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Old 18th April 2011, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Nancy Malik View Post
For example Schultz published examples such as very weak concentrations of iodine, bromine, mercuric chloride and arsenic acid will enhance the development of yeast (fungus), moderate dosages of these elements will suspend it and large dosages will kill it.

In other words, substances vary in action depending on whether the concentration is high, medium, or low. This is known as ‘bi-phase response’ i.e. every medicine has two action phases that depend upon dosage.

Therefore, rather than the effectiveness of a medicine increasing with the increase of the dosage, research has consistently proven that very small dosages of a substance have the opposite result of larger ones. For example, it has been proven that the usual medical dosages of atropine inhibit the parasympathetic system and cause dryness in the pituitaries, while very small dosages cause increased secretions.
A small modification: Small dosages of some medicines have the opposite effect of large doses.

And I ask you again: What has this to do with homeopathy?

We are taking about allopathic medicines and allopathic dose dependent effects. The effects encountered, whether stimulating or the opposite, are those used in conventional medicine.

AND, of course, we are talking about pharmaceutical amounts, even in the small doses.

Hans
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Old 18th April 2011, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Nancy Malik View Post
More about relationship of homeopathy to hormesis at http://www.siomi.it/siomifile/siomi_pdf/BELLE_newsletter.pdf




The idea/concept of ‘Arndt-Schultz law’ had first been mentioned by P.A. Paracelsus (1493-1541). He said, “All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." He said, “It depends only on the dose whether a poison is poison or not”.
Yeah, or as one of my friends once said: "There are no adverse substances, only adverse doses" (He was fond of 'experimenting' with various stimulants).

However, we are STILL taking about significant amounts. The majority of homeopathic medicines are diluted beyond any pharmaceutical effects, even those below the Avogadro limit.

Have you ever considered the amount of active substance in, say, a 6X remedy? ... That is 1 ppm. That is below the safety limit of even quite strong toxins!

Hans
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Old 19th April 2011, 07:24 AM
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This has everything to do with homeopathy



The law of minimum dose got verified by Arndt-Schultz law.



This pharmacological principle was concurrently discovered by two separate researchers, Rudolf Arndt, a homeopath physician and Hugo Schultz (German), a conventional scientist.



The relationship of homeopathy to hormesis at http://www.siomi.it/siomifile/siomi_pdf/BELLE_newsletter.pdf
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Old 22nd April 2011, 02:29 PM
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Human and Experimental Toxicology (Sage)
Meta-analysis of serial agitated dilutions in experimental toxicology (1994) // 80% homeopathy medicines shows positive effects
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Old 24th April 2011, 04:13 AM
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In one discussions at JREF, it is indicated by many science people that two things can't be exactly identical. If so, why two water, alcohol or lactose molecules be unidentical(changes in their structure not in their chemical formula) on post ptentization.
Enjoy reading:-

Can Two Things be Identical? - JREF Forum
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Old 25th April 2011, 04:11 AM
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Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences
Thermodynamics of extremely diluted aqueous solutions (1999)

FULL TEXT // Successive dilutions and succussions may alter permanently the physical-chemical properties of the solvent water



Journal of Thermal Analysis and Calorimetry
New Physico-Chemical Properties of Extremely-Diluted Aqueous Solutions (2004) FULL TEXT // The procedure of dilutions and succussions is capable of modifying in a permanent way the physico-chemical features of water
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Old 26th April 2011, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh View Post
In one discussions at JREF, it is indicated by many science people that two things can't be exactly identical. If so, why two water, alcohol or lactose molecules be unidentical(changes in their structure not in their chemical formula) on post ptentization.
Enjoy reading:-

Can Two Things be Identical? - JREF Forum
As usual, you pick some part of something you don't understand and try to use it to defend homeopathy.

Molecules are for all practical purposes identical. Such variations that exist in energy and exitation levels are not stable and do not reflect any past stages.

Hans
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