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Old 21st February 2006, 03:26 PM
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Mr Hans,

I don't know how laws esp those related to universal concepts can be non-universal.

Anyway, Thanks.

We have four quantum numbers/states and four fundamental forces/interactions as described on following links:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_force
The interactions
1.1 Gravity
1.2 Electromagnetism
1.3 Weak nuclear force
1.4 Strong nuclear force

How these fundamental forces can be related to four quantum numbers/states or with the makeup (somewhat genotype) and changes(somewhat phenotype) in atoms?



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Old 22nd February 2006, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh
Mr Hans,

I don't know how laws esp those related to universal concepts can be non-universal.
Well, that is the interesting thing about quantum mechanics. However, with Newton's laws, I did not say they did not apply, just that they made no difference.

Do you get closer to the moon if you stand on a piece of paper? Well, of course you do, but it makes no difference.

Quote:
We have four quantum numbers/states and four fundamental forces/interactions as described on following links:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_force
The interactions
1.1 Gravity
1.2 Electromagnetism
1.3 Weak nuclear force
1.4 Strong nuclear force

How these fundamental forces can be related to four quantum numbers/states or with the makeup (somewhat genotype) and changes(somewhat phenotype) in atoms?
Well that is what you can find out if you really decide to study physics. However, as I keep telling you, you need to start at page 1. Quantum mechanics are not even in volume 1.

And your "somewhat genotype" and "somewhat phenotype" is nonsense. Atoms have a finite number of states, and there are specific conditions for when they are in which state, and how they change. It is quite interesting, but very complex, and quite frankly, it is over your head, at least at present. ...And as long as you refuse to actually try to learn physics, it will remain so.

Hans
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Old 22nd February 2006, 10:17 AM
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Mr hans,

What is atom with or without external influences? Why science don't consider that atoms or molecules can be effected by normal external influences? Whether atoms are same at "absolute zero" and at earth's normal atmosphere?
I feel there is is difference in "adam and eve" and "modern man and woman".
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Old 22nd February 2006, 10:45 AM
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In addition to its principal quantum number n, an electron is distinguished by three other quantum numbers: the azimuthal quantum number l (describing the orbital angular momentum of the electron), the magnetic quantum number m (describing the direction of the angular momentum vector), and the spin quantum number s (describing the direction of the electron's intrinsic angular momentum). Electrons with varying l and m have distinctive shapes denoted by spectroscopic notation. In the illustration, the letters s, p, d and f (corresponding to l = 0, 1, 2, 3) describe the shape of the atomic orbital. In most atoms, orbitals of differing l are not exactly degenerate but separated into a fine structure. Orbitals of differing m are degenerate but may be separated by applying a magnetic field, creating the Zeeman effect. Electrons with differing s have very slight energy differences called hyperfine splitting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom
Fine structure
In atomic physics, the fine structure describes the splitting of the spectral lines of atoms.

The gross structure of line spectra is the number of lines and their placement. This is determined by the differences in the energy levels of the various atomic orbitals. However, on closer examination, each line exhibits a detailed fine structure. This structure is due to small interactions that give small shifts and splittings of the energy levels. They may be analyzed by means of perturbation theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_structure
Hyperfine structure
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hyperfine splitting
In atomic physics, hyperfine structure is a small perturbation in the energy levels (or spectrum) of atoms or molecules due to the magnetic dipole-dipole interaction, arising from the interaction of the nuclear magnetic dipole with the magnetic field of the electron.

Mr hans, have you considered above aspects?
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Old 22nd February 2006, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh
Why science don't consider that atoms or molecules can be effected by normal external influences?
Excuse me but that is exactly what science is doing. It's the supernatural influences that doesn't interest scientists.

You might not understand it but the quantum numbers you are so fond of pasting are used to predict how atoms and molecules are effected by normal external influences.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh
Mr hans, have you considered above aspects?
Kayveeh. I know you think it's some kind of magic in the word quantum that could explain homeopathy but the reality is much more mundane than so.

Think about it like this:

Principal quantum number is the energy level the electron exist in. Higher energy levels are further from the nucleus.

Azimuthal quantum number describe the shape of the orbital the electron exist in.

Magnetic quantum number describe the magnetic force the moving electron creates.

Spin can be thought of as spinning around it's own axis.

These 4 numbers describe an electron and no two electrons can have the same values. It is very simplified but it might help you visualize what's going on.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jocce
Kayveeh. I know you think it's some kind of magic in the word quantum that could explain homeopathy but the reality is much more mundane than so.

Think about it like this:

Principal quantum number is the energy level the electron exist in. Higher energy levels are further from the nucleus.

Azimuthal quantum number describe the shape of the orbital the electron exist in.

Magnetic quantum number describe the magnetic force the moving electron creates.

Spin can be thought of as spinning around it's own axis.

These 4 numbers describe an electron and no two electrons can have the same values. It is very simplified but it might help you visualize what's going on.
jocce,

Yes these are also described in link I provided.

Why external influences can't influence these states? Above absolute zero can also be considered as external influence. How it can be logical that any change in external influence(due to mixing, diluting, energy applications on potentization process) don't change atoms or molecules in any manner when there is difference at absolute zero and normal earth's atmosphere?
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Old 22nd February 2006, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh
Why external influences can't influence these states?
As I said (and it's getting tiring) THEY DO INFLUENCE THESE STATES!! ...but the energy generated by shaking a bottle is not enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh
How it can be logical that any change in external influence(due to mixing, diluting, energy applications on potentization process) don't change atoms or molecules in any manner when there is difference at absolute zero and normal earth's atmosphere?
Show me a homeopath who can raise the temperature 300 K by shaking his bottle. How can this be so hard to understand. What your asking is:

"How can it be possible that when I poke the truck with my finger it would refuse to move up the hill but when the tow truck push it moves??!?!"
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Old 22nd February 2006, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh
Mr hans,

What is atom with or without external influences? Why science don't consider that atoms or molecules can be effected by normal external influences?
Because science, through over a century of world-wide research has found out that atoms cannot be affected by "normal" external influences.

Quote:
Whether atoms are same at "absolute zero" and at earth's normal atmosphere?
The atoms as such are the same.

Quote:
I feel there is is difference in "adam and eve" and "modern man and woman".
I am sure you are right. And?

Hans
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Old 23rd February 2006, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans
Because science, through over a century of world-wide research has found out that atoms cannot be affected by "normal" external influences.



The atoms as such are the same.



I am sure you are right. And?

Hans
Are you telling just make up of atoms or also covering its size, shape and motions? A not yet started can can be said the same as when it is running, but still it can be different in motion, heat etc.

Alike modern men and women effected by environmental factors, how atoms are effected in any respect with the changes in environment?
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