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Old 22nd December 2005, 07:19 AM
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Hello Dr Manish,

I'd like to comment on your letter. By the way are you a medically qualified doctor or some other kind?

I'll respond using your numbers:

1. I agree. Science is a rational unbiased enquiry. The enquiries must be conducted under strict observing conditions or they are worthless and must be discarded. It is constantly changing and evolving, building on previous achievements.

2. I don't doubt that you could show me some people who claim to have cured patients with homeopathic remedies. Problem is that science rejects such evidence because of point 1 - "strict observing conditions". This means that for science to accept your evidence, the cases would had to have been cured within the realms of a properly conducted clinical trial, with all the necessary safeguards put in place (double blind and placebo controlled etc). Were they?

3. I have no idea if your facts are correct on this point but let's assume they are. It still amounts to hearsay and doesn't support your case.

4. You say homeopathy was suppressed delibrately by some conspiracy. The alternative explanation is that it was merely replaced by more effective treatments.

5. I agree. It IS the clinical effect of homeopathy that matters. Doesn't the lancet article report on just that effect? The Lancet study is a summary of 110 other studies into homeopathy. They found no evidence that homeopathy works beyond placebo. How many more demonstrations of 'clinical effect' do you want?

It's funny how all the incredible claims of homeopaths fade away when the light of real science is shone upon them. The only trials of homeopathy that have ever been successful have been conducted by homeopaths or their supporters. Does anyone find that a bit strange?
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Old 22nd December 2005, 09:45 PM
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String
many many many books already written on this subject of homeopathy and science,research and trails
link;
www.homeopathic.com www.hpathy.com left handside margin take a look
go to booklistings on this website. And Dont forget to read the 5 books listed before you asks more ridiculous questions.
(more on ONLINE RESOURCES go to this website forum dated; 25th april 2005) a post by sreischman with many links/research papers.

No, there is nothing better than homeopathy for healing/cure
Many posted cure cases are on line via homeopathic personal websites
Its so easy to throw your comments out,yet when we post a reply as to where and how you can find the answers ,there is only more conflict and questions,instead of you taking the time to read all the information out there already.
Are allopathic MD's ever questions as to the effectiveness rate of their meds,how about the adverse effects of allopathics (300,000 per year every year) Yet the average layman still trusts their allopath. Where lays the burden of proof here?
Such toxic methods of healing yet accepted (media /political manipulations)
Homeopathy does not have the lobbyist/politicians/media payoffs to boost this form of "CURE".
Gina Tyler
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Old 23rd December 2005, 07:30 AM
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Gina,

Let's take a hypothetical:
You are travelling home one night when you crash your car. You are badly injured but concious. How do you proceed?

Do you phone for an ambulance or a homeopath?

OK, that's not really fair. I'll give you an easier one.

You get appendicitis. Of course you don't know it's appendicitis because you haven't been to a doctor. You just know that you're in pain. Who do you phone first, the ambulance or the homeopath? Remember, you've got about 48 hours before your appendix bursts and gives you blood poisoning.

OK, that's not really fair either - no-one in their right mind would do anything other than get emergency treatment.

So maybe these evil pill-pushing, conspiratorial, suppressive, uncaring doctors have their uses?

Begs the question though, just what is homeopathy good for? Warts?
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Old 23rd December 2005, 09:31 AM
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Hello,

ST,

Suppose we collect all studies, observations and experiances by homeopathic and scientific communty and see the nett result. How should science/people should take it. If someone with preconcieved ideas select few bitter almonds from many almonds--can not mean almond is a bitter nut...so can't be socially acceptable for taste and health. It is common practice of many people with preconcieved ideas and vested interests to show/indicate just the few negative ones by ignoring many positive ones. Let the nature/mass people take its own recource.

Reg: working science of homeopathic remedies, these works by preserving changed "thermodynamic equilibrium" on potentisation among raw remedy substances, carriers and surrounding forces and so changed carrier's molecules(more active) specific to remedy effects, energetically. So it is the quantity of changed carrier's molecules that effect.

Quote:
The process that leads to a thermodynamic equilibrium is called thermalisation. An example of this is a system of interacting particles that is left undisturbed by outside influences. By interacting, they will share energy/momentum among themselves and reach a state where the global statistics are unchanging in time.

In thermodynamics, the local state of a system at thermodynamic equilibrium is determined by the values of its intensive parameters (examples of intensive parameters include pressure,temperature etc.).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamic_equilibrium
A perfect crystal has "absolute zero" motion/temp./energy i.e. -273 degreeC but if triturated/diluted its molecules will not? Other imperfect crystals/concentrated substances can have some variation on upper temp. but still should be lower to its seprated molecules.

Molecules in crystals or in some concentrated/raw form can have less "kinetic" but more "potential" energy whereas molecules in its triturated/diluted or seprated form can have more "kinetic" but less "potential energy"...somewhat alike in magnets.
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Old 23rd December 2005, 10:33 AM
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So homeopathy works by 'thermodynamic equilibrium' ?

I'll explain this for your benefit, kayveeh.

Thermodynamics is the study of energy distribution. Energy can take many forms but in this context it refers to heat and entropy. Entropy is a tricky concept to imagine but it really refers to the degree of disorder in a system. We can ignore entropy for the moment and concentrate on heat.

When you heat something, what you are actually doing is making the molecules move faster. They can move in many different ways but it amounts to the same thing - they move more.

As kayveeh says, when you add a hot liquid to a cold liquid, say pour boiling water into a container of cold water, the overall liquid rapidly reaches a point of equilibrium or balance. The total liquid is neither hot nor cold but somewhere in between.

How does this actually happen? Simple - the hot liquid contains molecules that are moving quickly and cold liquid contains molecules that are moving slowly. When the fast molecules meet the slow ones they bounce off each other. The fast one gets slower because of the collision and the slow one gets faster. Very soon all the molecules are moving at roughly the same speed - equilibrium.

Kayveeh says that homeopathy works by preserving changed "thermodynamic equilibrium" on potentisation among raw remedy substances. It should be fairly easy to spot why this can't happen, given the information above. His explanation is simply a lot of scientific sounding words dropped into a meaningless sentence. Don't worry though, he'll have a dozen new theories by next week.
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Old 23rd December 2005, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by String Theory
So homeopathy works by 'thermodynamic equilibrium' ?

I'll explain this for your benefit, kayveeh.

Thermodynamics is the study of energy distribution. Energy can take many forms but in this context it refers to heat and entropy. Entropy is a tricky concept to imagine but it really refers to the degree of disorder in a system. We can ignore entropy for the moment and concentrate on heat.

When you heat something, what you are actually doing is making the molecules move faster. They can move in many different ways but it amounts to the same thing - they move more.

As kayveeh says, when you add a hot liquid to a cold liquid, say pour boiling water into a container of cold water, the overall liquid rapidly reaches a point of equilibrium or balance. The total liquid is neither hot nor cold but somewhere in between.

How does this actually happen? Simple - the hot liquid contains molecules that are moving quickly and cold liquid contains molecules that are moving slowly. When the fast molecules meet the slow ones they bounce off each other. The fast one gets slower because of the collision and the slow one gets faster. Very soon all the molecules are moving at roughly the same speed - equilibrium.

Kayveeh says that homeopathy works by preserving changed "thermodynamic equilibrium" on potentisation among raw remedy substances. It should be fairly easy to spot why this can't happen, given the information above. His explanation is simply a lot of scientific sounding words dropped into a meaningless sentence. Don't worry though, he'll have a dozen new theories by next week.
Simply, molecules/particles after potentization will be different in their Thermodynamics and PE properties from those when they were in crystal/concentrated form. They are not at absolute zero after potentization but could be when in perfect crystal. Just study...Thermodynamic Equilibrium, effects/energy shifting to carriers, internal energy, entropy, enthalpy, kinetic/potential energy, motion/rest in inertial and non-inertial frames, absolute zero/temp./motion/energy, changes in internal energy on trituration, dilution, potentization
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Old 23rd December 2005, 05:10 PM
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String
As i thought,your post was only placed on line a few hours after myn,You did nothing with the links i have provided for you. All the research,journals,articles,proof,cases is already out there. All we get is more questions that do not go anywhere.
Yes i could discuss the patients that have been cured of fatal ailments,but what is the point of my time spent with a sceptic like you..........................That's it.
Gina Tyler
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Old 24th December 2005, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by String Theory
So homeopathy works by 'thermodynamic equilibrium' ?

I'll explain this for your benefit, kayveeh...

Kayveeh says that homeopathy works by preserving changed "thermodynamic equilibrium" on potentisation among raw remedy substances. It should be fairly easy to spot why this can't happen, given the information above. His explanation is simply a lot of scientific sounding words dropped into a meaningless sentence. Don't worry though, he'll have a dozen new theories by next week.
Just tell me, if you change the strucure or form of any substance(say crystal) to molecular and macromolecular level(say it diluted/triturated partilcles) by keeping its chemical compostion as same--will changed form effect differently from its origional structure/form or not?

Quote:
]Binding energy is the energy required to disassemble a whole into separate parts. A bound system has a lower potential energy than its constituent parts; this is what keeps the system together; it corresponds to a positive binding energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_energy
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Old 24th December 2005, 06:27 PM
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hi strung,

boy, u r really smart. seriously. i don't question it at all. but, useful intelligence? apparently not.

tell me this: is it possible for the transactional process in a randomized double blind placebo controlled trial of homeopathy - as between the model, the experimental design (protocol), and the characteristics of therapeutic dynamics in the real world - to produce a statistical effect that favors placebo? and, assuming that the answer to this question is "yes," is it possible to produce the same paradoxical outcome in a trial of conventional medicine?

thanx for your thawtful replie.

btw, gina, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to "...discuss [with hi strung] the [homeopathic] patients that have been cured of fatal ailments..."! i'm afraid even a **** like him would win that one.

bach
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Old 24th December 2005, 07:00 PM
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ooops, hi again, g string -

i really should clarify that i mean "thawtful" and not the typical skeptical "yes/no" response. i mean, explane yurselph, and yur thawt prosecz.
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