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Old 2nd December 2005, 07:40 AM
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Melissa,

It's a pity, in my opinion, that you have chosen this road but it's your body and your decision to make. So good luck and I genuinely hope it all works out for you. Don't forget you can always change your mind! - -(sorry, couldn't resist!)

Pannakkal,

"The scientificity of homoeopathy cannot be proved by present chemistry or physics."

So water has some property or quality associated with it that isn't related to present chemistry or physics?
Yet people like Kayveeh still want to produce chemical/physical evidence that homeopathy is true? You guys need to make up your mind - Is homeopathy some kind of spiritual/magical treatment or is it scientific with a method as yet unknown?

Here's my opinion:
Homeopathy works. Yes you read that right, it works - some of the time. But it is nothing to do with the remedies. It is a combination of several factors:

1. Homeopaths TALK to their patients and spend a long time getting to know them. They make the patient feel unique and special. This is good and I wish more medical doctors had the time to do this.
2. Remission of minor illnesses. I'll give an example of my own: I suffered from a wart on my hand years ago. I tried everything and it wouldn't go away. I gave up trying and it went away several weeks later. What if I had taken a homeopathic treatment as a last resort? I might well have attributed the wart removal to the treatment.
3. Placebo effect. I surely don't need to explain this.
4. Length of treatment. Homeopathic treatments can last for years. During that time illnesses naturally go through different phases. They get better and they get worse.

There are probably others but I think it's a moot point anyway as Melissa seems convinced by your arguments and not mine.
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Old 2nd December 2005, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by String Theory
Your argument makes no sense. You are supporting homeopathy by saying that we don't know everything. This does not support homeopathy.

Let me illustrate what I mean: I don't know everything about elephants.
But I know there isn't one standing on my foot!

It's the same with homeopathy and science: I don't know everything about science. But I know that pure water has no effect on illness other than hydration.

Unless of course you can demonstrate that the pure water that is prepared as a remedy in a homeopathic lab is somehow different to the pure water in, say, a chemistry lab?

Can you?
You wrote:

< But I know that pure water has no effect on illness other than hydration.>

Plese tell me what are your criteria for the purity of water.

< Unless of course you can demonstrate that the pure water that is prepared as a remedy in a homeopathic lab is somehow different to the pure water in, say, a chemistry lab? >

When I was in College and in Medical school, nothing was mentioned or taught
about " Structured Water " in Chemistry or Biochemistry classes. Would you care to elaborate or comment on what is " structured water ?

With regards
Lew
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Old 2nd December 2005, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by String Theory
Yet people like Kayveeh still want to produce chemical/physical evidence that homeopathy is true? You guys need to make up your mind - Is homeopathy some kind of spiritual/magical treatment or is it scientific with a method as yet unknown?
Why you say spiritual/energetic treatments are not scientific? Don't you endorss psychological effects as scientific effects. Chemical/conventional effects can be via blood>>body>>brain channel, whereas energetic/homeopathic effects can be just opposite via brain>>body>>blood channel. Just look at cephalic effects. These along with homeopathy are scientific with a method as yet unknown in current testing technology.Accordingly, it can be checked by survey by independent people at seneir, experianced and busy homeopath's clinics. Other option can be to observe at those clincs with randamized placebo group in accordance with homeopathic theories and with homeopaths. Pls be conviced, nothing in general is intentionally oriented cheating/frauds or ignorance. Many institutions, government people, well educated students and homeopaths, well informed modern patients--all these in millions are involved--so all can't be otherwise. It is so simple to chack. Just employ and pay to some people from homeopathic community and know the details. Is it not so simple to check?
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Old 2nd December 2005, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cellsalts
You wrote:

< But I know that pure water has no effect on illness other than hydration.>

Plese tell me what are your criteria for the purity of water.

< Unless of course you can demonstrate that the pure water that is prepared as a remedy in a homeopathic lab is somehow different to the pure water in, say, a chemistry lab? >

When I was in College and in Medical school, nothing was mentioned or taught
about " Structured Water " in Chemistry or Biochemistry classes. Would you care to elaborate or comment on what is " structured water ?

With regards
Lew
Criteria for the purity of water? PURE water is simply H20 with nothing else present at all. This is difficult to achieve without sophisticated equipment.
In, say, a chemistry lab we usually regard double distilled water or de-ionised water as close to being pure. In microbiology labs they would add that the water needs to be sterile as well as 'pure'.
Impurities are hard to remove from water given that even opening the stopper on a 100% pure water container is enough to de-sterilise it and add trace amounts of dissolved gases (CO2 and oxygen).

Spring water or tap water, by comparison, are far from pure and highly variable in their microbial and salts content.

Structured water? I never used the term.

Water, in liquid form, has no structure except for a loose aggregation at its surfaces due to hydrogen bonding. This gives rise to the 'surface tension' that water displays. It also gives water a higher than expected boiling point.
In gaseous form, water has no structure whatever, even hydrogen bonds are prevented by the distance of each molecule from its neighbour.
In solid form, water forms a latticework arrangement - ice.

Anything dissolved in water will affect its properties. Remove the impurity and the water will instantly return to normal.
Some agents can have peculiar effects on water. Take gelatin for example. Dissolve gelatin in water and the gelatin molecules 'order' the water and bind it into a macromolecular structure. Add some raspberry flavouring and you have a wonderful dessert!
But remove the raspberry and gelatin and the water will instantly return to normal.
The idea of water memory is utterly without foundation. The idea that water memory might be due to the 'structure' of water is so silly it is laughable.
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Old 2nd December 2005, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
ABSTRACT ON STRUCTURED WATER RESEARCH

Structured water is found in the cytoplasm of healthy tissue. It has a high solubility for the body's minerals, so minerals and vitamins, which are formed with structured water, tend to go from the digestive tract and bloodstream into the tissues. Structured water can be formed using lights, magnets, temperature changes, (quartz crystals, pyramids and sounds. Structured water formed with blue light or North Pole magnetic energy is slightly alkaline and has an increased surface tension. Water structured with yellow and red light, south pole magnetic energy or within a pyramid is slightly acidic and has a decreased surface tension. The two types of structured water each have increased mineral solubilities and different healing effects on the body...
http://www.naturesalternatives.com/lc/mikesell.html
Cell salts,

Is it what you are trying to tell?

Btw, since you are from malaysia, can you someting about "palm oil", is it good or bad for health?
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Old 2nd December 2005, 11:57 PM
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PANNAKKAL
Default Goebel's tactics?

Keyvee,Thank you. I only wrote the truth from my experience.
String Theory,
You have the so called 'openion' with a system totally unknown to you. Patients here come for expert homoeopathic openion about their cases.You without knowing anything about homoeopathy or any experience in homoeopathy, trying to mislead.All your arguments are not new. From the time of Hahnemann itself the same arguments are there against homoeopathy. Hahnemann had to run from cities to city because of the physical and other attacks upon him by then allopaths. He was banned from practice,fined etc. Even after all of this he became popular all over the world and from Kings to ordinary people waited for him for hours for his treastment, only because of the marvellous cures. Homoeopathy is growing very fast aided by its wonderful cure only, not with any advertisements or help from the authorites or Goverments. In UK,USA etc allopathic treatment gets the insurance coverage, so treatment almost free. So people coming to homoeopathy has to spend money from their pocket. Even with this set back homoeopathy is growing, why? The allopathic drug manufactures are really get frightened. The popularity of homoeopathy is inversely proportion with thier buiseness.The Lancet the allopathic magazine's homoeopathic experiment drama of homoeopathy is indication of their fear. Behind the Lancet 'curtain' we can see their face. Or why an allopathic journal interested in homoeopathic study? If homoeopaths are going for ayurvedic or allopathic research how it look like? The reason for all this cryings are growing reputation of homoeopathy all over the world.

SO your questions seems to be the old wine in new bottle. Your comments are

1)Homoeopathic cure are not due to remedies but due to long talking to the patientsIf long talking to the patient cures, allopaths can also have that, as the talking has no side affects. I request you String theory to show the world to cure a fibroid or ovarian cyst or typhoid or pneumonia or rheumatic fever or OsteoArttrits or Vitiligo with your detailed talking alone!

2)Minor illness will go itself.Agree, The minor and also all acute illness itself end either bad or good without treatment. But with homoeopathic treatment almost all the minor illness like molluscum or warts or corns are cure fastly. Not only the minor illness but acute or emergency conditions like Typhoid,Pneumonias, Hepatitis B, Ottorrhoeas,Urinary infections and chronic complaints like Allergical rhinitis,Asthma,Eczema,Vitiligo,Uterine fibroids,Ovaran cysts,Gall stones,Rheumatic complaints etc etc etc are cured with our system. Most of the above complaints can be proved with the modern methods or blood or urine examinations.

3)Placebo effect My reply is same. If you can cure all diseases with placebo, it is much easier and safe. You can start treatment with your 'placebo' or 'detailed talking'.Homoeopathy is famous for infant conditions world over. What is the psychological or placebo effect upon a new born infant? The infants complaints arew fastly removed with our medicines.Another field is vetenary. Now a days many vetenary drs are using homoeopathic medicines with success. I had treated multiple tumors in uder of a cow .With few doses of phytolocca30 it totally disappeared. It will not suppress the milk also. What is the placebo effect here?

4) Length of treatment.String theory is openion that if any disease are kept for a long time(as mango or jack fruit riping when it is kept for some time) it will be cured its own. So you have many methods! Long talking, placebo, Long waiting to ripe! It is wrong that homoeopathy takes long time to cure. If medicine is exactly suited to the individual the cure will take very fast. Patient gets relief with in no time.

You claim that you are a scientific man. But your attitude shows no scientificity.You are insulting a great medical system without knowing anything about it.
I already said in my previous post that the best way to know the action of homoeoapthic medicine is drug proving on self. Under the guidance of a Hompath you can take a homoeopathic medicine for a short period, then you can understand whether our medicine is water or placebo.

So if you got a real scientific mind, go and study in detail, test our remedy upon yourself to know the power of our medicines and try to understand homoeopathy from a properway.

Or you applying the Goebel's tactics?
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Old 3rd December 2005, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by String Theory
Criteria for the purity of water? PURE water is simply H20 with nothing else present at all. This is difficult to achieve without sophisticated equipment.
In, say, a chemistry lab we usually regard double distilled water or de-ionised water as close to being pure. In microbiology labs they would add that the water needs to be sterile as well as 'pure'.
Impurities are hard to remove from water given that even opening the stopper on a 100% pure water container is enough to de-sterilise it and add trace amounts of dissolved gases (CO2 and oxygen).

Spring water or tap water, by comparison, are far from pure and highly variable in their microbial and salts content.

Structured water? I never used the term.

Water, in liquid form, has no structure except for a loose aggregation at its surfaces due to hydrogen bonding. This gives rise to the 'surface tension' that water displays. It also gives water a higher than expected boiling point.
In gaseous form, water has no structure whatever, even hydrogen bonds are prevented by the distance of each molecule from its neighbour.
In solid form, water forms a latticework arrangement - ice.

Anything dissolved in water will affect its properties. Remove the impurity and the water will instantly return to normal.
Some agents can have peculiar effects on water. Take gelatin for example. Dissolve gelatin in water and the gelatin molecules 'order' the water and bind it into a macromolecular structure. Add some raspberry flavouring and you have a wonderful dessert!
But remove the raspberry and gelatin and the water will instantly return to normal.
The idea of water memory is utterly without foundation. The idea that water memory might be due to the 'structure' of water is so silly it is laughable.
You wrote:

< Criteria for the purity of water? PURE water is simply H20 with nothing else present at all. This is difficult to achieve without sophisticated equipment.
..Impurities are hard to remove from water... >

In other words, the " pure " water utilised in the Chemistry or Microbiology
labs is not really pure. With sophisticated instruments, I posit that Light is liquified gas, which can be condensed to a liquid. Your comments, please.


<Structured water? I never used the term.>

Extracellularly or intracellularly ?

< The idea of water memory is utterly without foundation. The idea that water memory might be due to the 'structure' of water is so silly it is laughable.>

Please tell me what activates the identical and symmetrical restoration of your anatomy through wear and tear. For instance,
the avulsed Left toe-nail is not regrown on the right.


With regards
Lew
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Old 3rd December 2005, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh
Cell salts,

Is it what you are trying to tell?

Btw, since you are from malaysia, can you someting about "palm oil", is it good or bad for health?

Thank you sir, for the very educational URL on Structured water.
There are many of us who are not familiar with Structured Water or come to terms with " clustered or structured water " . To each, his or her own , I suppose. Here is another URL which mainstream scientists may have nothing to quarrel about.
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/chaplin.html


Of course, I would be very glad to elaborate on the health-giving functions
of Palm Oil but that would not be in good taste ethically since it will be Palm Oil from Malaysia that I will be referring to. I much rather you Googling to websites some of which give good write-ups on Palm or Coconut Oil.
It has been accepted universally that Mother's milk is the best milk for babies.
It contains Lauric Acid which is extremely efficaious for skin problems. Melissa, if at all you are reading, please take note. I have satisfactory results with ezcematous patients who added a spoonful or two of their urine to a tubful of water with clockwise and anticlockwise stirring for a minute or two before bathing. Do not use soap. Then rub coconut oil to the whole body.

With regards

Lew
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Old 3rd December 2005, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cellsalts
Of course, I would be very glad to elaborate on the health-giving functions
of Palm Oil but that would not be in good taste ethically since it will be Palm Oil from Malaysia that I will be referring to. I much rather you Googling to websites some of which give good write-ups on Palm or Coconut Oil.
I have posted a new thread in discussions forum about palm oil. If you can tell something, if positive benefits, it would be helpful.

Quote:
I have satisfactory results with ezcematous patients who added a spoonful or two of their urine to a tubful of water with clockwise and anticlockwise stirring for a minute or two before bathing. Do not use soap. Then rub coconut oil to the whole body.

With regards

Lew
Can you tell more about uses of urine--self and others:-

1. By direct Ingestion (It is already clear).

2. Trophical applications on skin/body in raw form

3. Making self urine a potentised homeopathic remedy and using as remedy(which potency?)

I can't say its purpose but I think some drops mixed with earth falls on legs etc. of males in nature, and on females--the natural applications. I have also noted sometime natural fall of urine on legs etc. by occasional changes in urine excretions types in males.

Regards.
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Old 5th December 2005, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cellsalts
You wrote:

< Criteria for the purity of water? PURE water is simply H20 with nothing else present at all. This is difficult to achieve without sophisticated equipment.
..Impurities are hard to remove from water... >

In other words, the " pure " water utilised in the Chemistry or Microbiology
labs is not really pure. With sophisticated instruments, I posit that Light is liquified gas, which can be condensed to a liquid. Your comments, please.


<Structured water? I never used the term.>

Extracellularly or intracellularly ?

< The idea of water memory is utterly without foundation. The idea that water memory might be due to the 'structure' of water is so silly it is laughable.>

Please tell me what activates the identical and symmetrical restoration of your anatomy through wear and tear. For instance,
the avulsed Left toe-nail is not regrown on the right.


With regards
Lew
Light is liquefied gas? Liquefied gas is, well, liquid. I don't understand what you are trying to say, perhaps a language problem?

Extracellular or intracellular? Doesn't actually matter. Although intracellular water is loaded with salts and dissolved electrolytes/organic material. So is extracellular water, for example blood plasma.

What activates symmetrical restoration etc of your anatomy? I don't know what this has to do with anything we've been discussing but cells (of many kinds) repair the damaged body according to the DNA blueprint.
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