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Old 8th June 2004, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaAnnan
So, you think physics only has one model?
Vewy intewesting postulation there. I don't think you are correct.
There are two opposing theories. And they seem at odds with each other (one 'macro' and one 'micro' - but the string theory is one theory that possibly could make sense of the two together - in unison. Though, how this would impact a materialist understanding of homeopathy I'm not sure about. And fwankly, I don't think it matters.

Shirley already stated clearly that one only has to grasp the Organon to understand how remedies work; pssst - dynamically (as in - not materially).
It's really very simple when it finally clicks! Very exciting in terms of understanding and how it impacts the rest of one's thinking.
Higher potencies can work dynamically provided energy based on E=mc^2 can be derived from atoms of active substances by the ordinary potentization process & it can be saved/stored in remedy's carries for some unlimited time. However if any molecule is converted in atoms & subatomic particles--it may loose its properties as a molecule. If not then, Materiastically, "Cephalic phase effect" theory as I indicated can be a only possibility.
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Old 9th June 2004, 05:46 AM
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Lisa thanks. It can be an intresting, logical & scientific explaination justifying the working of homeopathic remedies.

Cephalic phase can be said to be all in your head! The smell, sight, thought of food or sense of any substance triggers the cephalic phase. And the cephalic phase is heightened by hunger. 30 - 50% of all gastric secretions occur during the cephalic phase.

Homeopathic remedies & other energy healing medicines may work on this "Cephalic Phase Effect"(CPE) i.e. " just tasting or sensing any food or substance trigger the CPE but not consuming it physically create the healing effect related to that food or substance which is tasted/sensed.".

It is also mentioned in my other topic"Working Logic of Potentised Remedies? " in this forum:
Working of Potentised Remedies?
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Old 11th June 2004, 01:03 PM
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Unfortunately, the CPR theory flies in the face of important homeopathic paradigms. If remedies worked by some sublimal sense stimulation, it would be a one disase, one remedy situation. There would be no need for a holistic approach, just use the typical medicine against the typical symptom, like in alloapthy.

Also, of course, you make a number of assumptions of how potentizing influences the remedy, assumptions that are not based on any evidence or known physics.

Hans
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Old 12th June 2004, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans
Unfortunately, the CPR theory flies in the face of important homeopathic paradigms. If remedies worked by some sublimal sense stimulation, it would be a one disase, one remedy situation. There would be no need for a holistic approach, just use the typical medicine against the typical symptom, like in alloapthy.
Mr. Hans, What can be then be the other theory then this CP effect theory, which can fit within the modren available knowledge & technologies? Furthur, it not exactly 'one disase, one remedy situation or holistic approach' which differanciate homeopathy with allopathy as allopathy can also prescribe on holistic approach. It should be the quantity (minimal), quality(potentised) & type of remedy(similarity) which should be more important for this purpose.

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Also, of course, you make a number of assumptions of how potentizing influences the remedy, assumptions that are not based on any evidence or known physics.

Hans
Then it is the weakness of known physics & it should improve its knowledge & technologies as effects are noted & observed by mass public all over the world.
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Old 22nd June 2004, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh
Mr. Hans, What can be then be the other theory then this CP effect theory, which can fit within the modren available knowledge & technologies? Furthur, it not exactly 'one disase, one remedy situation or holistic approach' which differanciate homeopathy with allopathy as allopathy can also prescribe on holistic approach. It should be the quantity (minimal), quality(potentised) & type of remedy(similarity) which should be more important for this purpose.
There is no theory that can explain how homeopathy (and tissue salts ) function. That is the problem.

Yes, allopathy is becoming mere and more holistic, but that is not the point. The point is that CPE works by certain secific stimuli activating certain specific body functions. So, in the event that some stimulus has some specific curative effect, it will always have just that effect. No need for case taking and repertorizing.

Mind you, I do not dispute that CPE might have a therapeutic effect in certain cases. But you are trying to make it a universal effect, which it is not.

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Then it is the weakness of known physics & it should improve its knowledge & technologies as effects are noted & observed by mass public all over the world.
Obviously, it could also be the weakness of the theory.

Hans
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Old 22nd June 2004, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans
There is no theory that can explain how homeopathy (and tissue salts ) function. That is the problem.
Hello Mr. Hans,

I think this(CPE) is an explainable theory.

Quote:
The point is that CPE works by certain secific stimuli activating certain specific body functions. So, in the event that some stimulus has some specific curative effect, it will always have just that effect. No need for case taking and repertorizing.
Homeopathy have both molecular & ultra-molecular potencies. Similarily, CPE also have both molecular(taste, smell, touch etc) & ulta-molecular(see,feel, hear,think etc.) senses. Molecules of active substances & differant potencies make the remedies differant from each other & for that case taking and repertorizing is needed. Contaminations & carriers in remedies can also have some common effect in all remedies based on differant potencies.

Quote:
Mind you, I do not dispute that CPE might have a therapeutic effect in certain cases. But you are trying to make it a universal effect, which it is not.
Thanks, you agree on some point. As I mentioned above, it is not absolutely universal. However, we may have to look higher potencies bit more seriously & deeply. Ultimate of every substance is one universal energy.
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Old 23rd June 2004, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh
Hello Mr. Hans,

I think this(CPE) is an explainable theory.

I don't.

Homeopathy have both molecular & ultra-molecular potencies. Similarily, CPE also have both molecular(taste, smell, touch etc) & ulta-molecular(see,feel, hear,think etc.) senses.

No, that is not the same. Unless you want to attribute the "ultramolecular" to placebo effect, in which case, I agree.

Molecules of active substances & differant potencies make the remedies differant from each other & for that case taking and repertorizing is needed.

That is the disputed point. I hold it that once no more molecules are left in the preparation, there is no difference between different preparations, or indeed, blank medium. If you could point to a method for testing this, it would be very interesting, indeed.

Contaminations & carriers in remedies can also have some common effect in all remedies based on differant potencies.

That is another point of discussion about homeopathy, but perhaps not relevant here.

Thanks, you agree on some point. As I mentioned above, it is not absolutely universal.

It is not even partly universal. Our present knowledge points to it being entirely specific.

However, we may have to look higher potencies bit more seriously & deeply.

That would be interesting, but I don't quite see the relevance.

Ultimate of every substance is one universal energy.

Completely irrelevant.
Hans
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Old 23rd June 2004, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans
No, that is not the same. Unless you want to attribute the "ultramolecular" to placebo effect, in which case, I agree.
On the contrary, I may want to attribute "placebo effect" to "ultramolecular CPE effect".Just denying is not sufficient to disprove any concept.

Quote:
That is the disputed point. I hold it that once no more molecules are left in the preparation, there is no difference between different preparations, or indeed, blank medium. If you could point to a method for testing this, it would be very interesting, indeed.
Molecules of differant size depending on potency are definitely there in every remedy. The effect is due to those molecules present in any remedy. You can take & test it.

Quote:
It is not even partly universal. Our present knowledge points to it being entirely specific.
You may have to reassess this point with deeper understanding.
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Old 23rd June 2004, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh
On the contrary, I may want to attribute "placebo effect" to "ultramolecular CPE effect".Just denying is not sufficient to disprove any concept.
In principle, you cannot disprove a concept (that would be proving a negative), and I don't have to. It is your claim, so you are the one who must provide the evidence.

Quote:
Molecules of differant size depending on potency are definitely there in every remedy. The effect is due to those molecules present in any remedy. You can take & test it.
No. Molecules are not of different sizes. There are exceptions, e.g. polymers, but in most substances, molecule size is fixed. No, molecules are not present in all remedies. In potencies >12, it is unlikely that any molecule is left.

How do you claim to be able to test it? (NOTE: This is the 1 million $ question )

Quote:
You may have to reassess this point with deeper understanding.
No, again it is your claim, you provide the evidence.

Hans
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Old 23rd June 2004, 06:29 PM
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[QUOTE=MRC_Hans]
No. Molecules are not of different sizes. There are exceptions, e.g. polymers, but in most substances, molecule size is fixed. No, molecules are not present in all remedies. In potencies >12, it is unlikely that any molecule is left.

Several Molecules may be associated in more/lesser numbers. A salt crystal is bigger sized that an trituirated salt particle. When we can feel/touch/sense a remedy--it means molecules are there.

How do you claim to be able to test it? (NOTE: This is the 1 million $ question )

You can't say no molecule is there in a remedy. Whatever you will sense that will be due to molecule only.

No, again it is your claim, you provide the evidence.

Just feel/touch/sense the remedy.
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