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Old 21st November 2009, 08:27 AM
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Lightbulb Homeopathy & Hormesis?

Hello,

Quote:
The term hormesis (see Calabrese et al., 2007 for a detailed consideration of the definition and uses of hormesis) has been most widely used in the toxicology field where investigators use it to describe a biphasic dose response with a low dose stimulation or beneficial effect and a high dose inhibitory or toxic effect. The response of the cell or organism to the low dose of the toxin is considered an adaptive compensatory process following an initial disruption in homeostasis. Thus, a short working definition of hormesis is: ‘a process in which exposure to a low dose of a chemical agent or environmental factor that is damaging at higher doses induces an adaptive beneficial effect on the cell or organism’....Hormesis is a fundamental concept in evolutionary theory. From the beginning through the present time, life on earth has existed in harsh environments in which cells are often exposed to free radicals and toxic substances. To avoid extinction organisms have developed complex mechanisms to cope with the environmental hazards.
Hormesis Defined

Previously: Arndt-Schulz rule or Schulz' law :For every substance, small doses stimulate, moderate doses inhibit, large doses kill.
Arndt-Schulz rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The above is a good & detailed article on "Hormesis" (previously Arndt-Schulz rule or Schulz' law). As such, What is the problem in justifying homeopathic stimulating & beneficial effects due to low doses??
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Old 21st November 2009, 12:40 PM
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If OP quote is not sufficient following quote can help:-

Quote:
Hum Exp Toxicol. 2008 Feb;27(2):155-62.

Hormesis and disease resistance: activation of cellular stress response pathways.
Mattson MP.

Laboratory of Neurosciences, National Institute on Aging Intramural Research Program, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA. mattsonm@grc.nia.nih.gov

The survival of all organisms depends upon their ability to overcome stressful conditions, an ability that involves adaptive changes in cells and molecules. Findings from studies of animal models and human populations suggest that hormesis (beneficial effects of low levels of stress) is an effective means of protecting against many different diseases including diabetes, cardiovascular disease, cancers and neurodegenerative disorders. Such stress resistance mechanisms can be bolstered by diverse environmental factors including exercise, dietary restriction, cognitive stimulation and exposure to low levels of toxins. Some commonly used vitamins and dietary supplements may also induce beneficial stress responses. Several interrelated cellular signaling molecules are involved in the process of hormesis. Examples include the gases oxygen, carbon monoxide and nitric oxide, the neurotransmitter glutamate, the calcium ion and tumor necrosis factor. In each case low levels of these signaling molecules are beneficial and protect against disease, whereas high levels can cause the dysfunction and/or death of cells. The cellular and molecular mechanisms of hormesis are being revealed and include activation of growth factor signaling pathways, protein chaperones, cell survival genes and enzymes called sirtuins. Knowledge of hormesis mechanisms is leading to novel approaches for preventing and treating a range of human diseases.

Hormesis and disease resistance: activation of cel... [Hum Exp Toxicol. 2008] - PubMed result
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Old 21st November 2009, 03:01 PM
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Hormesis is 'allopaty'. The effects from hormesis are chemical effects.

Hans
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Old 22nd November 2009, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Hormesis is 'allopaty'. The effects from hormesis are chemical effects.

Hans
Knowledge, chemicals, foods, supplements, replacements , traditional healing agents, surgeroy etc. are not the property of allopathy. If encouragenment & support of public money would had given to other systems they could also be able to do so. Allo mean different and is defined as;
Quote:
allo-, all-,
combining forms meaning 'differing from the normal, reversal, or referring to another': allopathy, allergic.
Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.
So whatever different from normal & if found by allopathy, can be taken as its property. Moreover, chemicals are there in lower potencies(now in higher potencies also as I thought) & in healing agents of many other so called alternative system--ayurveda etc. Hormesis is just low dose/stimuli effect in comparisn to high dose effect---probably but mostly, homeopathic vs. allopathic effect.
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Old 22nd November 2009, 10:24 AM
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"To every disadvantage there is a corresponding advantage"
W. Clement Stone

"To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
Newton's third law of motion.

Quote:
Contributions to toxicology

Monument to Paracelsus in Beratzhausen, BavariaParacelsus, sometimes called the father of toxicology, wrote:[9]

German: Alle Ding' sind Gift, und nichts ohn' Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist.

"All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

That is to say, substances often considered toxic can be benign or beneficial in small doses, and conversely an ordinarily benign substance can be deadly if over-consumed. Even water can be deadly if overconsumed[10
Paracelsus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 23rd November 2009, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh View Post
Knowledge, chemicals, foods, supplements, replacements , traditional healing agents, surgeroy etc. are not the property of allopathy. If encouragenment & support of public money would had given to other systems they could also be able to do so.
It is not a question of property. Modern medicine is about anything that can be showed to work.

Quote:
Allo mean different and is defined as;
I know. It is a misnomer, I'm just using it here because it seems to be the only expression that certain people understand.


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So whatever different from normal & if found by allopathy, can be taken as its property.
No. There is really no such thing as 'allopathy'. Modern medicine uses whatever can be shown to work. It is not a question of property. Modern method is a principle. A principle cannot own something.

Hans
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Old 24th November 2009, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
It is not a question of property. Modern medicine is about anything that can be showed to work.
Then what is the problem with homeopathic remedies? These have also shown to work & alike many modern mediciens, real science of working may not yet be known in science.



Quote:
I know. It is a misnomer, I'm just using it here because it seems to be the only expression that certain people understand.

No. There is really no such thing as 'allopathy'. Modern medicine uses whatever can be shown to work. It is not a question of property. Modern method is a principle. A principle cannot own something.

Hans
Simply, modern medicine system want to justfy everything with one eye but do not differenciate agents with side/adverse effects or least side/adverse effects

---body controlled or medicines controled agents.
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Old 24th November 2009, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh View Post
Then what is the problem with homeopathic remedies? These have also shown to work & alike many modern mediciens, real science of working may not yet be known in science.
The problem is that homeopathic medicines have not been shown to work, and that the homeopathic paradigm is incompatible with our knowledge of how the body functions.

Quote:
Simply, modern medicine system want to justfy everything with one eye but do not differenciate agents with side/adverse effects or least side/adverse effects

---body controlled or medicines controled agents.
Not correct. Modern medicine is acutely aware of side effects, and massive research goes into managing and minimizing them.

Hans
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Old 24th November 2009, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
The problem is that homeopathic medicines have not been shown to work, and that the homeopathic paradigm is incompatible with our knowledge of how the body functions.
It can be bit easy to show the effects (real & side) of concentrated chemicals & of toxic substances but it may be not shown similarlily in case of weak dilutions due to their delicacy & individual effects but with least adverse affects.



Quote:
Not correct. Modern medicine is acutely aware of side effects, and massive research goes into managing and minimizing them.

Hans
I meant consistency with side/adverse effects & inconsitency with least adverse effects. On one hand you give but on other you also take much. Whereas homeopathy only give.
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Old 24th November 2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayveeh View Post
It can be bit easy to show the effects (real & side) of concentrated chemicals & of toxic substances but it may be not shown similarlily in case of weak dilutions due to their delicacy & individual effects but with least adverse affects.
Nonsense. Either a medicine works, or it doesn't. If it works, some of the patients using it will get better.


Quote:
I meant consistency with side/adverse effects & inconsitency with least adverse effects. On one hand you give but on other you also take much. Whereas homeopathy only give.
Homeopathy is indeed quite consistent: No effects, no side effects.

However, let me point out that all those terrible side effects from conventional meds are mostly in the mind of people who promote alternative meds. In real life, the vast majority of patients experience little or no side effects.

Hans
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