Hello everyone,
A very nice lady suggested this site to me as I'm looking for help with my doggie:



That's Ginger, a 4 yr. old spayed female. She's a Shepard/Lab mix and maybe some other breeds thrown in, we're not quite sure. She's very loving and affectionate with the family. However, she's not very loving and affectionate with anybody else. Everyone is scared to death of her. I can't have people over the house unless I lock her in another room. She's never really bitten anyone but I'm just not sure and who wants to take the chance? She sure acts like she would. Once she attacked my sister's dog and almost killed it. Ginger has never been any good with any other animals either. She even tried to kill a teeny, tiny puppy that was about 3 mos. old.

Recently, I'd left the house and was gone about 2 and a half hours. In that time she did over a thousand dollars worth of damage in the house. In the living room, she tore down and chewed up my brand new, week-old vertical blinds. They're gonners. She knocked over the floor lamp that was bolted to the wall and there's a big hole where it used to be. In the kitchen, she tore up my semi-new (only 4 yrs. old) kitchen floor. She tore it right to the sub-floor and there was pieces of floor everywhere. She chewed on the moulding AND the door frame by the door and there was wood pieces all over the place too. We've replaced that moulding before. She used her nails and put huge scratches in the door. We've even replaced that door before because she chewed up the other one. Her destructive behavior is new within the last year or so. We adopted her at 6 mos. of age. Now she's been costing us about a grand in "repairs" every 2 mos. or so and I never even recovered from the last grand. We've tried caging her when we left the house (she only does this when she's alone) but she broke through/destroyed/chewed up the cage which was a good, solid cage, plenty big enough for her. I now realize that a couple of other things she chewed up, which I blamed on the cats, was her. She'd gotten into my bedroom and chewed up the cord from my hair dryer (that was new too!) and the cord from the iron. Neither one was plugged in at the time or believe me, I would NOT be having this conversation right now!

Both Ginger's vet and the shelter I adopted her from suggested I put her down. I don't think I can do that, yet I just can't afford to go on making the repairs. Then there's that thinking in the back of my mind "what if she bites someone?" She's not adoptable to another family. Can someone help me with suggestions on how to make her behavior less agressive and destructive? If you need more information on the dog, please ask.

I would really appreciate any suggestions and thanks in advance for your help.
Christine

[ 20. July 2003, 13:09: Message edited by: Fishie ]

The very nice lady that pointed me to this website suggested that I add more information about Ginger so here goes:

Ginger is in excellent physical health. She's not overweight nor underweight. I can't pick her up to get a weight on her but I'd say it's about 85-90 pounds.

I believe Ginger prefers cooler areas as she seeks shade when outside and sits in front of the air conditioner when in the house. Yet, in the winter, when the fireplace is going, she'll sit right in front of it.

Ginger fears thunderstorms and loud noises such as when there are fireworks going off. She'll come running to my side. If I'm at the computer working, she'll sit under the desk making sure her body touches mine at all times or nudges me to get me to keep petting her constantly. If I get up, she'll follow right away. Sometimes she shakes and shivers when she's scared. I don't think she's afraid of anything else besides thunderstorms or other loud noises. She's pretty fearless.

This particular incident with her destructive behavior may have come from the fact that she recently spent a week in the doggie motel while we were on vacation. We couldn't take her with us as we've done before because she's no longer welcome at my parents house and my sister would not a come to visit if that dog was there. This wasn't the first time Ginger has stayed at that doggie motel, just the first time in a while and certainly her longest visit there at 7 days. The owner of the motel said Ginger was very well behaved during her visit and did not pick fights with the other dogs even though she had the opportunity to "fence fight" with the others while she was outside. She did not display agressive behavior towards him and he was even able to give her a bath with no problems.

OK, that's all for now unless there's more information anyone would like to know.

[ 20. July 2003, 14:58: Message edited by: Fishie ]

Hi Christine,

Great picture!

This sounds like something right up alley of the behavioral specialist, Krista. A case she can sink her teeth into. (Pun intended.)

You might add some info such as any vaccinations and how they may tie in with onset....change of diet (what did they feed at the "motel"?), his diet at home, chemicals that may be present in home, how does he feel about water/shinning objects, snap at big black flies, any skin eruptions, ears, appetite.............

What was different at the "motel" that he seemed improved while there and worsened returning home?

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Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Hi GPM

Thanks for checking this post out. Can you guess who "the very nice lady" is that Christine mentioned?

Anyway, I posted this case on Hpathy and also the email list so hopefully someone will be able to help Ginger and Christine out.

I thought of kkrista right away when I first heard the case - hopefully she'll take a peak soon.

In the meantime what would you tink about starting some Bach remedies for Ginger?

Barb

__________________
Man, do not pride yourself on your superiority to animals. For they are without sin and you in your greatness defile the earth by your appearance on it and leave traces of you foulness after you. Dostoyevsky

Hi Nice Lady. (How does that go....you can fool some of the people all the time........! Knew she meant you and wanted to make a caustic(um) remark but decided to stay nice.)

Krista will be good for this...she will probably be around tomorrow. With her interpretations, Leela or another, will be better able to recommend. Not a bad idea, flower essences but might want to hold off until a possible remedy choice is selected. I think this dog might be profoundly ill. FEs may not touch the problem, though I have seen some wonderful results with them. Besides, don't want to have more than one influence at a time.

Might look at:
Allen's Ency, Mind, Bufo: Defiance, duplicity, spitefulness.
Anger, with desire to strike and destroy.

Boenninghausen, Mind, Agar: Destructive. Hatred and revenge.Homicidal, murder, etc.

Kent's Lectures, Bell: "Throughout the acute mania, and throughout the delirious state, all the manifestations partake of violence. Destructiveness. The Bell. patient in the most acute state must be watched, controlled, handled, and sometimes tied. In the text it describes these states as "rage, fury. " He wants to do violence. "

And many more remedies with "destructive" including aloe, camph, canth, chlol, hyos, hyosin, lach, merc i f, mosh, plb, sec, stram, stront c, sulph, tarent, tub, verat and verat v...so a good report on anything that could narrow down the selection would be helpful, such as......

Anything that can describe what, when and how the attacks against others occur. What does the dog look/act like leading into such an episode? Are they preceded or followed by any particular behavior? Rabies vaccinations?

Sorry.....I've run out of time!

__________________
Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Hmmm...let's see...her last vaccination was bortadella (?spelling) or "kennel cough" which was required to be able to board her. She had that about 4 weeks prior to her boarding of July 5-12. She had her rabies shot but that was back in November of last year if I remember correctly. No other vaccinations.

I don't know what they tried to feed her at the doggie motel but they did mention her appetite was not good. At home she is ravenous and will eat just about anything, even stuff we don't give her. (i.e., she will swipe stuff off the counter if given half a chance. She even ate an entire bag of Oreo cookies once ) What we give her to eat at home is table scraps (when available and generally only meat scraps) and commercial canned or dry dog food. Pedigree is the brand I think but we often switch between that and Science Diet, Nature's Best, and a few others.

The dog does snap at big black flies and/or bees. I don't think she's caught any yet. She doesn't like water at all which is why we've been sending her out for a bath. The previous bath was because she had to be de-skunked and this time was because she still smelled a little like skunk. Where we seem to have trouble giving her a bath, other's have no problems. I think this may be because she's afraid of other people and doesn't put up much of a fight, yet if one of us is around, she will.

I see no skin erruptions and her ears are nice and clean.

The only thing "different" at the motel that I'm aware of would be different surroundings, other than a different brand of dog food being served. Also, there's lots of other dogs around whereas at home, she's the only dog.

I should also mention that she gets along with our 2 cats rather well but one better than the other. One of the cats will just walk up to her and not care at all. Ginger doesn't mind him. The other cat tries to avoid the dog at all costs and Ginger will seek him out and annoy him until the dog gets swatted with a paw in the face. The cats where here first, Ginger came second so that may be why she doesn't try to harm them. She's very familiar with them and there's no real violence between them. Just rough play (if the cats let her).

If you need any more info, I'll be glad to supply it.

[ 20. July 2003, 23:36: Message edited by: Fishie ]

This is a psychiatric case.

I make a big stink here about others taking into consideration mentals when they are not characteristic/uncommon symptoms that allow us to differentiate between drugs, but this is a psychiatric diseased picture, I'm pretty sure.

Trying to figure out the rubrics is the trick in all animal cases.

I'm looking at the moment.

Not too good at this, but I am thorough and persitent, so I think it's prudent to make no promises but thank you for coming here since animals get killed like that far too easily.

Homeopathy is definitely the right place for this case.

I'm looking.

__________________
Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904

Repertorization:

1. Fear of loud noises, e.g., firecrackers and thunderstorms

MIND, fear of sudden noise (K46): Bor., cocc.

MIND, fear of thunderstorm (K47): Bry., gels., hep., lach., nat-c., nat-m., nit-ac., Phos., rhod., sep., sulph.

MIND, fear of being alone (See Company) (K43): Act-sp., all-s., ant-t., apis., Arg-n., Ars., asaf., bell., bism., brom., bry., bufo., cadm., calc., camph., clem., con., Crot-c., dros., elaps., gels., hep., Hyos., kali-ar., kali-br., Kali-c., kali-p., lac-c., Lyc., lyss., merc., mez., nux-v., Phos., plb., puls., ran-b., rat., sep., stram., tab., tarent., verat.

This will be a primary symptom due to it dominating the animal, rather than a simple startling. However, the issue of needing assurance and touch and clinging might be additional elements of the symptom, and all are symptom rubrics.

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2. Destructive

MIND, desire to break things (K10): Apis., hura., Stram., Tub.

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3. Chases and snaps at flies

MIND, chases imaginary objects (K10): stram.

Note: that one is not a good match, but just to be thorough in case nothing else shows up; and I was thinking of Strammonium anyway. Trying to avoid that active prejudice I harp about due to remedy-essence notions; hard to ignore such things.

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4. Bites, agressive, violent

MIND, violent, vehement, etc. (See Anger, Rage, Wildness) (K91): abrot., acon., aesc., am-c., ambr., anac., ang., apis., arn., ars., Aur., bar-c., Bell., bor., bry., calc-p., calc., camph., canth., carb-s., carb-v., caust., cham., Cic., coloc., corn., croc., cupr., dros., dulc., ferr., graph., hep., Hyos., kali-c., kali-p., lach., led., lyc., mang., merc., merl., mez., mosch., nat-c., nat-m., nit-ac., Nux-v., olnd., petr., phos., plat., ran-b., sabad., seneg., sep., stann., Stram., stront., sulph., tarent., verat., visc.

MIND, wildness (K95): acon., ant-t., bapt., bell., calc-p., camph., canth., croc., cupr., hyos., med., mosch., op., petr., ph-ac., phos., Stram., Verat.

MIND, anger, violent (K3): Acon., Anac., apis., ars., Aur., bar-c., bell., bry., cahin., calc., carb-s., carb-v., Cham., coff., ferr-p., ferr., graph., grat., Hep., hyos., ign., kali-i., lyc., nat-m., Nit-ac., Nux-v., pall., petr., phos., sep., Staph., sulph., Tarent., verat., zinc.

MIND, company aversion to (K12): acon., aloe., alum., ambr., Anac., anan., ant-c., ant-t., atro., aur-s., aur., Bar-c., bar-m., bell., bry., bufo-s., bufo., cact., calc-p., calc-s., calc., cann-i., Carb-an., carb-s., carb-v., cedr., Cham., chin., Cic., cimic., cinnb., clem., coca., coloc., con., cop., cupr., cur., cycl., dig., dios., elaps., eug., ferr-i., ferr-p., ferr., fl-ac., Gels., graph., grat., ham., hell., helon., hep., hipp., hydr., hyos., Ign., iod., jug-c., kali-bi., kali-br., kali-c., kali-p., kali-s., lac-d., lach., led., lyc., mag-m., mang., meny., nat-c., Nat-m., nat-p., nicc., Nux-v., oxyt., petr., phos., pic-ac., plat., psor., ptel., puls., rhus-t., sec., sel., sep., stann., sul-ac., sulph., tarent., tep., thuj., til., ust., verat.

We're unlikely to be lucky with that one, but we can always just erase it.

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You can see these things online.

Do you know where to look? http://homeoint.org/books/kentrep/index.htm

And tell me if it has any physical generals or particulars please, for I didn't read the details, only the parts about chasing things and destroying things.

[ 21. July 2003, 10:24: Message edited by: Hahnemannian444B ]

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Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904

Albert, when looking at rubrics, might check hydrophobia and the sub rubrics. Dr. Pitcairn suggests there is a possibility of a rabies miasm from the vaccination. Have no idea if this is of any value in this case but you will find a lot of the remedies I think you are considering, including stram. Sometimes it's hard to know if this behavior is an actual change or just a progression and if a change, can it be tied to the vaccinations. May be Ginger is just a female bully!

I remember Dr. Pitcairn commenting on the peculiarity of some dogs becoming almost frantic snapping at black flies.......can't remember if he said he found through experience that caust or canth was a remedy to consider. Lot of help that was...sorry.

__________________
Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

gpm, that's very interesting: Hydrophobinum

Damn right they're violent and crazy.

No wonder I was thinking of Strammonium.

Very interesting.

Vaccinations are so insane.

Guy, did your animal change in behavior after vaccinations?

If not, that would be irrelevant.

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Edit addition: Rabies miasm would be okay there even though it would be due to an iatrogenic poisoning.

Allopaths are so stupid.

And roger on Canth. or Caust.

I'll see if I can find him via the NCH.

[ 21. July 2003, 10:06: Message edited by: Hahnemannian444B ]

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Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904