Yes, Kenneth, a longtime internet bullroar artist here and chronic mental masturbator, who has yet to "get" his own life,?seems now to have?the?formal homeopathic training and certification?along with the patient treatment experience to know as much and?more than Edward Shalts, M.D., D.Ht., a classically trained homeopath. ?Feel free to post?any relevant?credentials, as Dr. Shalts has, along with any personal case histories to support your "false premise" and "lie" theory.? Be sure to include exactly what the "false premise" is.

Kenneth Salls, kenneth_salls (AT) yahoo (DOT) com?wrote:

> Here's a highly regarded Vithoulkas trained homeopath, a diplomate of homeopathy, EDWARD SHALTS,
> M.D., D.Ht.,?who has the medical and homeopathic knowledge to admit that classical homeopathy
> can not cure genetically predetermined illnesses, like diabetes, breast cancer, Alzheimers,
> Parkinsons, etc.?

*Opinions* are like a**holes, everybody has at least one.

> Only the non-medically trained, non-compassionate classical homeopath would tell patients to go
> off allopathic drugs that save lives while falsely attempting to cure conditions that ARE NOT
> CURABLE!

Bullroar. You are attempting to employ a junior high school debating
team technique, i.e. set up a false premise and then build a house of
cards upon a lie.

> Enough with the classical homeopathic "magic tricks".

Enough of the all-too-typical-and-familiar inflations and slander.
Get a life.

"The New Susan" wrote:

> Yes, Kenneth, a longtime internet bullroar artist here and [snipped
> the vulgarity and personal slurs], [...] Be sure to include exactly
> what the "false premise" is.

In part, i did not read where he says, as you suggest, "classical
homeopathy can not cure genetically predetermined illnesses, like
diabetes, breast cancer, Alzheimers, Parkinsons, etc." I only read
where he acknowledged that *some* cases will have progressed too far
(and/or could be inaccessible for other reasons too), which is far
different from what you wrote.

Shannon

Hi Susan

I had a pig with an advanced and very quickly growing mammary tumour.
The vet said that he would be dead within a couple of months.
Homeopathy (though not classical) cleared that in just over eight weeks.
If you would like to see the photos of the tumour as it reduced in size
feel free to email me and I will send you photos of it.

Kerry.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
[mailto:homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com] On
> Behalf Of healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com
> Sent: 14 March 2008 11:37
> To: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
> Subject: [H] Re: Vithoulkas trained homeopath says genetic illness
incurable!
>
> Dr. J. Rozencwajg,
>
> I applaud you for being able to successfully treat cancer. Iscador,
which is mistletoe, not sure if it
> is homeopathically prepared or just herbal, was widely written about
here in the USA by actress
> Suzanne Somers, who cured her own breast cancer using it. She has
written two recent books
> about that and also her use of replacement bio-identical natural
hormones.
>


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Kerry,

What was non-classical about the homeopathic treatment of your pig? I'm sure it wouldn't be a constitutional remedy since the pig couldn't answer various questions. I'll trust your photos are accurate.

What happened to the pig?

Susan

I had a pig with an advanced and very quickly growing mammary tumour.
The vet said that he would be dead within a couple of months.
Homeopathy (though not classical) cleared that in just over eight weeks.
If you would like to see the photos of the tumour as it reduced in size
feel free to email me and I will send you photos of it.

Kerry.

Hi Kerry,

while I certainly am am open to both sides of the argument: was there
a certain diagnosis that the tumour was cancer?

Regards

Luise


On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, kerry wrote:

>
> Hi Susan
>
> I had a pig with an advanced and very quickly growing mammary tumour.
> The vet said that he would be dead within a couple of months.
> Homeopathy (though not classical) cleared that in just over eight weeks.
> If you would like to see the photos of the tumour as it reduced in size
> feel free to email me and I will send you photos of it.
>
> Kerry.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
> [mailto:homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com] On
>> Behalf Of healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com
>> Sent: 14 March 2008 11:37
>> To: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
>> Subject: [H] Re: Vithoulkas trained homeopath says genetic illness
> incurable!
>>
>> Dr. J. Rozencwajg,
>>
>> I applaud you for being able to successfully treat cancer. Iscador,
> which is mistletoe, not sure if it
>> is homeopathically prepared or just herbal, was widely written about
> here in the USA by actress
>> Suzanne Somers, who cured her own breast cancer using it. She has
> written two recent books
>> about that and also her use of replacement bio-identical natural
> hormones.
>>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date:
> 13/03/2008 11:31
>
>
>

Hi Luise

My vet was certainly of the opinion that it was cancer and it followed
the course that he said it would until I started homeopathic treatment:
extensive bleeding followed by degeneration of the tissue. It was
basically a complete mess, and to be honest I really didn't think that
homeopathy would succeed. Over the years I have seen many cancers on
animals and they have all had a smell to them that is difficult to
describe. On several cases of cancer in non obvious places, it was
this smell that first alerted me to the problem. This tumour had
exactly the same smell. Interestingly, a friend had a dog with a
tumour that once again had this smell, within 48 hours of giving the
initial dose of the remedy the smell had disappeared; it was a smell
that had been so offensive, it permeated the whole house. Unfortunately
the dog was too far gone by the time homeopathic treatment was started
and the dog had to be put to sleep.

My pigs case actually opened my vets mind to the power of homeopathy and
I have since helped him with emotional problems with one of his animals.

Kerry


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luise Kunkle [mailto:sem-pa (AT) bar-do (DOT) net]
> Sent: 14 March 2008 14:57
> To: kerry
> Cc: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
> Subject: RE: [H] Re: Vithoulkas trained homeopath says genetic illness
incurable!
>
>
> Hi Kerry,
>
> while I certainly am am open to both sides of the argument: was there
> a certain diagnosis that the tumour was cancer?
>
> Regards
>
> Luise
>
>
>



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On Mar 14, 2008, at 6:11 AM, <healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com>
<healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote:

..<<..... about the homeopathic treatment of your pig? I'm sure it
wouldn't be a constitutional remedy since the pig couldn't answer
various questions. >>

Ah, what a common assumption:-)

Of course the pig can answer questions, did you not stay to listen
when you asked?
:-)

You just have to ask the right ones in the right way, and have your
eyes open for the answers.

The last pig case I had is a case in point:
Pig (a rescue) was in such pain from arthritis it was trying to stand
on two legs, by putting them way under its belly, to remove weight
from the other two. It stood only long enough to get nutrition
(record was 4 mins) then lay down again. It could no walk a step.
Now from your post I gather you would write on a paper "Pig, what is
wrong?"
And say "He did not answer so nothing is wrong"?

What I did was to send a questionnaire to the owner (in another
state), who sent photos, xrays and answers to my extensive questions.
Remedy Calc-c was dosed in peanut-butter sandwiches, the pig was son
walking again and and after a month or two the pig was trotting
happily around his run, a little stiff, but getting on with life.

And yes the remedy was a proper simillimum.

It is not hard to "ask questions and get answers" in animal homeopathy.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

I am answering within your text, it is easier, answers marked with

************



Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

Visit http://drjoesnaturalmedicine.blogspot.com for some articles and

Comments.

-------Original Message-------



From: healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com

Date: 15/03/2008 12:38:01 a.m.

To: homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com

Subject: [H] Re: Vithoulkas trained homeopath says genetic illness

Incurable!



Dr. J. Rozencwajg,



I applaud you for being able to successfully treat cancer. Iscador, which is


Mistletoe, not sure if it is homeopathically prepared or just herbal, was

Widely written about here in the USA by actress Suzanne Somers, who cured

Her own breast cancer using it. She has written two recent books about that

And also her use of replacement bio-identical natural hormones.



***********Iscador is Anthroposophical, not Homeopathic, different

Principles and different approaches.



Though it seems you are proving my point that classical homeopathy ALONE can


Not fully treat various genetic illnesses or in this case, fast growing

Cancers. It needs to CO-MINGLE with other modalities either to fully achieve


A cure or speed cure.



You say you use "a mix of homeopathy, Ramakrishnan, Iscador, herbs and diet"


Thus, my questions are:



Why are you not solely using classical homeopathy?



*********** because in the vast majority of the cases, the situation is so

Advanced that the patient's life is in danger; my commitment is to the

Patient, not to any theory, as I have repeatedly written on all the lists I

Belong to, so I have to stop the progress of the disease on a physical level


Start the regression towards healthy tissues on a physical level while at

The same time addressing the core issues that have lead to this situation;

Cancer, and other diseases, are the famous "one-sided diseases" better known


As situations that have escaped the control of the normal physiology (that

Is why they are malignant, part of the definition); if they cannot be

Controlled any more internally, some external intervention is needed, but

Still THROUGH the body when possible.



How do you determine which of your regimen is actually working during

Treatment?



For example, a homeopathic remedy administered may not show immediate action


But work later on while you are administering Iscador or an herb which may

Have more immediate action, or vice versa.



********** hopefully, unless I am completely delusional, I know what each

Therapy can and will do, so I am able to determine what is working and when;


Certainly there are overlaps, but at the end of the day, who cares, as long

As my patient is completely cured on all aspects, not only the physical

Disappearance of the tumour but the healing of the processes that have lead

To it.



What would you expect the outcome to be if you did not include homeopathy?



*********** probably a local/general cure, followed by a recurrence or

Another deeper pathology later on, same as with conventional oncology, but

Less toxic.



It's not easy to discern if your classical homeopathic knowledge is vast

Enough that



1) you have concluded classical homeopathy can not solely successfully treat


Cancer or other illnesses or

2) it would take too long for it to successfully do so, thus risk death of

Patient or

3) that you discovered it is impossible to solely use classical homeopathy

To treat cancer and other genetic illnesses



********* I think you will find the answers to those questions in what I

Wrote above.



Are there cancers and other illnesses where you solely use classical

Homeopathy?



******** Yes; the criteria would nevertheless be a straight forward evident

Progress and a situation the does not evolve too fast, so I have the time to


Try a few classical approaches but do not miss the point where I have to

Include the rest should the classical approach not work



Why would initial chemo or radiation treatment negate your protocol?



*********** because those treatments create a lack of reactivity from the

Patient, and my "protocols" work THROUGH the patient's physiology



Regards,



Susan





That is a wide generalization I beg to disagree with.



One patient I have now is a lady with generalized, metastatic cancer of the

Breast who refused every conventional treatment.



Bone and liver metastases.........fixed tumor to the chest, fixed lymph

Nodes in the axilla.



After 3 weeks of treatment, the breast tumor is freed from the chest wall,

Shrunk somewhat, the lymph nodes in the axilla are free and a bit shrunk,

Bone pain is less.



The secret is first that she did not have any chemo or radiotherapy, and

That I used a mix of homeopathy, Ramakrishnan, Iscador, herbs and diet, so

Definitely not Classical.



Another patient with prostatic cancer and a hard tumour of the prostate has

Now a normal prostate, normal PSA, but again not pure Classical Homeopathy.



Both have in common that the treatment is totally individualized, including

The herbal prescriptions.



Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.



"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".



Visit http://drjoesnaturalmedicine.blogspot.com for some articles and

Comments.

OK, so I am supposed to be impressed. But when I read his bio, he was trained through CHED by Boiron, which is a clinical prescribers type course (French method). has it's merits, but for clinical prescribing, not classical prescribing. Then, he has written a book "Easy Homeopathy" - the 7 remedies for each ailment. (http://www.homeopathynewyork.com/bio.html)

Yeah, been there, done that. He may be a good classical prescriber, but nothing in his bio, including the Herscu training (NESH) would convince me yet. So, like I said, it's just his opinion. Clinical prescribing, french method stuff won't deal with deeper issues, unless by chance you hit the simillimum, and we shouldn't rely on chance.

Now, how about replying to my post on Vithoulkas?

Paul

----- Original Message -----
From: healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com
To: pb000014 (AT) pixie (DOT) co.za ; homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 1:08 AM
Subject: Re: Vithoulkas trained homeopath says genetic illness incurable!


Paul,

Edward Shalts, MD DHt, the homeopathic doctor who stated that genetic illness is incurable, will be speaking at the NCH conference in April. Since the NCH unofficially "represents" homeopathy in the USA, they must have thought highly enough of Dr. Shalts and his knowledge of classical homeopathy to invite him to speak. He's on the same bill as Andre Saine and Jeremy Sherr! How much more classical can you get???

Of course, Andre Saine NOT using LM potencies and disputing the validity of the Organon 6th edition negates a proven component of classical homeopathy but hasn't prevented him from speaking or teaching at NCH. Whether this advances homeopathy into Century 21 is another story. As for Jeremy Sherr, not sure how much he may divulge from The Founder.

http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.o...HConfBro08.pdf

Obviously, Dr. Shalts must know something that many here can't seem to admit!

Susan

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Here's a highly regarded Vithoulkas trained homeopath, a diplomate of
homeopathy, EDWARD SHALTS, M.D., D.Ht.,?who has the medical and homeopathic
knowledge to admit that classical homeopathy can not cure genetically
predetermined illnesses, like diabetes, breast cancer, Alzheimers,
>Parkinsons, etc.?

How come I should be impressed that he is "Vithoulkas trained". We tend to
laud everything Vithoulkas says , does and touches as gospel. He is (IMO)
losing the plot. Actually he lost it long ago. His theory on mechanism of
action and vital force is in direct contradiction of hahnemann,, he does not
know his Organon (although he would no doubt dispute this), he trashes
Sankaran, and now he says remedy action is like placebo. Exactly what the
allopaths would love to hear. They can now say homeopathy is placebo and the
great Vithoulkas said it, so we aren't allowed to disagree. Vithoulkas is
doing a lot of harm to homeopathy and needs to get off his
pedestal/mountain.

I do not know Edward Shalts; i do not know any positive contribution he has
made to the SCIENCE of homeopathy , so the above is just his opinion. All
this is based on the assumption that he his "descended from the great
master"

Not for me thank you, and I suggest anyone who disagrees with me first
really look at Vithoulkas's statements and compare them to Hahnemann.
Unfortunately a lot of homeopaths have been to Vithoulkas and simpky follow
his teachings (Margaret Roy etc.) and so our schools regurgitate Vithoulkas
without really studying Organon , as an UNPREJUDICED OBSERVER.

Paul



> Only the non-medically trained, non-compassionate classical homeopath
would tell patients to go off allopathic drugs that save lives while falsely
attempting to cure conditions that ARE NOT CURABLE!
>
> Enough with the classical homeopathic "magic tricks".
>
> "We also need to remember that certain conditions (genetically
predetermined illnesses, for example) and late stages of chronic diseases
are irreversible. There is no magic trick that would allow curing a person
with the end-stage chronic illness. In situations like that palliation (a
reduction of severity of symptoms) is the goal of treatment. "
>
> http://www.homeopathynewyork.com/benefit.html
>
>



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Paul and Susan,

I can't seem to find the quote that you're / she's referring to.

I haven't read the entire website, but assume the comment referred to
in alarm (that "genetic illnesses" is incurable) would have been on
the introductory page?

There I read:
Some patients come to homeopaths because nothing else has helped.
These people view homeopathy as their last resort. If prescribed
correctly, a homeopathic remedy may significantly improve even a severe
chronic condition.

[[[ *** I note that he--like any good homeopath--does not claim that
*everything* is "curable". This statement does communicate, however,
that even something which cannot be *cured*--eliminated, beyond need of
any further treatment, even homeopathic, in all its effects, for the
rest of the person's life--may indeed be significantly *helped* by
homeopathy. It's quite true that not everything is "curable".***]]]

I consider treatment of severe chronic long-lasting cases successful if
the patient is suffering significantly less with a noticeably improved
quality of life and sometimes a significant decrease in a number and
the amount of medications she or he has to take.

[[[***This again acknowledges that some disease-conditions have
already passed beyond the point where they can be completely
eliminated/cured. Is this perhaps what you are referring to? If so,
it is certainly no secret and no shame--is there ANY person or method
that can make a complete cure for every person and every condition?
Answer: Not according to anything I've ever heard!***]]]

Are those the quotes you were troubled by, or is there something else
that I missed?

One reason that I found the assertion about "genetic illness" puzzling
is that it's an undefined term--what--about either disease or
health--*isn't* genetic in part? It's a matter of degree, rather than
a black-and-white thing.

Another reason I find it puzzling is that some diseases that have been
considered "genetic" *have* been cured by homeopathy, and Dr. Shaltz
certainly knows this. The only one I can reference off the top of my
head is a case I posted recently (from contemporary printed literature)
about homeopathic cure of megacolon--Hirschsprung's disease, I think it
is called. Which Susan has not commented on yet, so perhaps
"curability of genetic illness" is not something she's interested in?
Oh well...

Perhaps the trouble you are having is in realizing the difference
between "cure"--which is of course our ultimate goal, but not always
attainable--and "help". Let me know if I've missed something more
to-the-point.

Best wishes,
Shannon


On Mar 20, 2008, at 3:08 PM, Paul Booyse wrote:

> OK, so I am supposed to be impressed. But when I read his bio, he was
> trained through CHED by Boiron, which is a clinical prescribers type
> course (French method). has it's merits, but for clinical prescribing,
> not classical prescribing. Then, he has written a book "Easy
> Homeopathy" - the 7 remedies for each ailment.
> (http://www.homeopathynewyork.com/bio.html)
>
> Yeah, been there, done that. He may be a good classical prescriber,
> but nothing in his bio, including the Herscu training (NESH) would
> convince me yet. So, like I said, it's just his opinion. Clinical
> prescribing, french method stuff won't deal with deeper issues, unless
> by chance you hit the simillimum, and we shouldn't rely on chance.
>
> Now, how about replying to my post on Vithoulkas?
>
> Paul
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: healthyinfo6 (AT) aol (DOT) com
> To: pb000014 (AT) pixie (DOT) co.za ; homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 1:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Vithoulkas trained homeopath says genetic illness
> incurable!
>
>
> Paul,
>
> Edward Shalts, MD DHt, the homeopathic doctor who stated that
> genetic illness is incurable, will be speaking at the NCH conference
> in April. Since the NCH unofficially "represents" homeopathy in the
> USA, they must have thought highly enough of Dr. Shalts and his
> knowledge of classical homeopathy to invite him to speak. He's on the
> same bill as Andre Saine and Jeremy Sherr! How much more classical
> can you get???
>
> Of course, Andre Saine NOT using LM potencies and disputing
> the validity of the Organon 6th edition negates a proven component of
> classical homeopathy but hasn't prevented him from speaking or
> teaching at NCH. Whether this advances homeopathy into Century 21 is
> another story. As for Jeremy Sherr, not sure how much he may divulge
> from The Founder.
>
> http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.o...HConfBro08.pdf
>
> Obviously, Dr. Shalts must know something that many here can't
> seem to admit!
>
> Susan
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>
>> Here's a highly regarded Vithoulkas trained homeopath, a diplomate of
> homeopathy, EDWARD SHALTS, M.D., D.Ht.,?who has the medical
> and homeopathic
> knowledge to admit that classical homeopathy can not cure
> genetically
> predetermined illnesses, like diabetes, breast cancer,
> Alzheimers,
>> Parkinsons, etc.?
>
> How come I should be impressed that he is "Vithoulkas
> trained". We tend to
> laud everything Vithoulkas says , does and touches as gospel.
> He is (IMO)
> losing the plot. Actually he lost it long ago. His theory on
> mechanism of
> action and vital force is in direct contradiction of
> hahnemann,, he does not
> know his Organon (although he would no doubt dispute this), he
> trashes
> Sankaran, and now he says remedy action is like placebo.
> Exactly what the
> allopaths would love to hear. They can now say homeopathy is
> placebo and the
> great Vithoulkas said it, so we aren't allowed to disagree.
> Vithoulkas is
> doing a lot of harm to homeopathy and needs to get off his
> pedestal/mountain.
>
> I do not know Edward Shalts; i do not know any positive
> contribution he has
> made to the SCIENCE of homeopathy , so the above is just his
> opinion. All
> this is based on the assumption that he his "descended from
> the great
> master"
>
> Not for me thank you, and I suggest anyone who disagrees with
> me first
> really look at Vithoulkas's statements and compare them to
> Hahnemann.
> Unfortunately a lot of homeopaths have been to Vithoulkas and
> simpky follow
> his teachings (Margaret Roy etc.) and so our schools
> regurgitate Vithoulkas
> without really studying Organon , as an UNPREJUDICED OBSERVER.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>> Only the non-medically trained, non-compassionate classical homeopath
> would tell patients to go off allopathic drugs that save lives
> while falsely
> attempting to cure conditions that ARE NOT CURABLE!
>>
>> Enough with the classical homeopathic "magic tricks".
>>
>> "We also need to remember that certain conditions (genetically
> predetermined illnesses, for example) and late stages of
> chronic diseases
> are irreversible. There is no magic trick that would allow
> curing a person
> with the end-stage chronic illness. In situations like that
> palliation (a
> reduction of severity of symptoms) is the goal of treatment. "
>>
>> http://www.homeopathynewyork.com/benefit.html
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 0.0.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1328 - Release Date:
> 2008/03/13 11:31 AM
>
>