There IS a lobby and they do not deny this fact.
The names of some of these organsations even contain the word "anti-vaccination".
Sometimes, however, they have learnt to disguise their intent by using euphemism, especially on the internet, so as to not immediately to put people off.


They benefit from such lobbying, not in the usual way by making money out of it, but by finding a purpose in life (and who doesn't need that?). They really do feel they are helping people. Unfortunately they do not know how to evaluate the evidence and end up actually harming people with propaganda based on their misunderstanding of the evidence.

If you are really interested I can post some links and quotes.

One of the problems, however, is that you really need to read and study the original papers of studies that have been done. Not many are available on the net and those that are require either a subscription or a fee ($20 anyone). So mostly what we have are abstracts of studies which are really insufficient for evaluating whether the conclusions of these studies truely reflect the data contained within them. Nevertheless, it is interesting that the conclusions all point in the same direction (there is lots of evidence that conventional vaccines work and there is no evidence that homoeopathic vaccines do).


regards,
BillyJoe

No they don't.

You equate skeptics with those who argue against you.

A skeptic should be somebody who is prepared to look at the evidence and reach a conclusion based on that evidence.

If you can cogently and logically argue that homeopathy works, then fair enough, but provide enough evidence that it does work. Reference to totally irrelevant items such as the indeterminate number of soap bars in a human body does not help.

From the comments in this thread, I'm not sure there is any trial that homeopaths would support.
However, lets try. It is claimed that there are now computer programs to match symptoms to homeopathic preparations. Perhaps a subset of people who present themselves with the symptoms of a common cold could be the basis of a trial using such a program. There may be enough of them, and the progression of a common cold is well enough known and short enough so that a trial leading to significance may be accomplished with a reasonable number of people within a short time period. I suspect however that this may be abrogated by the few number of otherwise healthy individuals presenting themselves for treatment.

The author of the article comnpletely misunderstands quantum theory, chaos theory and the placebo effect.
Parts of the article border on incomprehensibilty.


Here is a short list of errors:
(errors in bold, corrections unbolded)

Quantum reality describes a reality in which something, for example light, can display properties of being both matter and pure energy as waveform.
Quantum reality describes a reality in which something, for example light, can display properties of being both particle and wave. (subatomic entities are actually neither particles nor waves, but, whatever they are, they have behave AS IF they have the characteristics of particles or waves (but never at the same time - weird!)

The laws of quantum mechanics apply rather than the linear cause-effect laws of more conventional science...
The laws of quantum mechanics apply to the microscopic world of subatomic "particles", the linear cause-effect laws of conventional science (newtonian physics), apply to the macroscopic world of everyday sized objects such as people.

It is a reality in which all is interconnected and uncertainty reigns.
It is a reality in which two or more "particles" are ENTANLED until one or more of these paerticles interact with other particles, then the entaglement is broken.
And uncertainty refer to complementary characteristics such as position and momentum, energy and time, such that when as the value of one of the complementary pair becomes more certain, the value of the other becomes less certain (weird!). The results of quantum experiments are completely and utterly predictable however.

True natural healing takes place at this quantum level where mind and body are the same.
The mind or consciousness can not affect the result of quantum experiments.You cannot make even a solitary quantum particle do what you want it to do. Consciousness acts only at the macroscopic level to produce the placebo effect via psychological mechanisms.

There are principles by which this creation emerges out of chaos, known as strange attractors. Strange attractors, as defined in chaos theory, are essentially organizing principles that limit the patterns or structures that manifest from chaos and give them form.
And these "strange attractors" are completely unaffected by the mind/consciousness. You can not alter their values by using the power of your mind.

the placebo effect is a consciousness event
the placebo effect is a psychological event

There is nowhere or nothing in which consciousness is not involved.
A stone in no way can be said to be conscious by any sensible definition of the term.

Fields exist before energy, force or matter and are the source of these manifestations.
Energy/matter are expressed aS fields and are the source of these manifestations.

time and consciousness fields
There is no evidence for such fields.

Increasingly the brain is known to operate in a holographic manner, which means that change in any part of the brain affects the whole.
There is no evidence for this concept.

Work with CRP has led to certain speculations about how consciousness interacts with the brain
Pure speculation, of course, because, as yet, we no reason to believe that mind is not a product of ther brain. But time will tell.

In quantum reality, the beginnings of the structures that form the universe appear as wave fronts arising out of infinite possibility to form electrons and other subatomic particles that interact to become the structure of matter.
There is not "infinite possibility" out of which a "wave of probability" arises. There is just a "wave of probability", which is something a whole lot more restrictive than "infinite possibilty". The wave function does not collapse to form electrons etc, electrons are entities which have both wave and particle like characteristics. When they are not interacting they behave as particles. When they interact, their "wave functions collaspse" and they behave as particles. It's al modelling, though, to help us understand a little of what is going on.

Placebos do not work in the linear world of mechanistic science, and this is one reason medical science and psychology, which are based in this model, have failed to understand or honor this powerful healing force.
Medical science honours and understands the placebo effect better than you think. It also appreciates the linitations of the placebo effect, which this author of this article fails to understand. The placebo effect cannot, for example, affect a cure. They merely makes you feel better - temporarily.

To Billiy Joe,

I'm sorry I put the question not quite clearly, although it would be interesting "what evidence" in particular are you referring too, what I actually meant is "the evidence of what"? "point in the same direction" - which direction?

Could you please, clarify that?

THanks!

Elena

About a different matter -

I think you should probably try to apply your talents to construction of a biochemical robot, i.e. try to reproduce the whole of a living being on a molecular level (not necessarily human, but just try to do this in principle), Japanese are very interested in that, you'd get a lot of money from them in this field. And let us know about how you were successful in "re-creating" life - and consciousness for that matter?

I'm sorry, I couldn't read it through.
In fact, I had to stop at the first two paragraphs which show a complete and utter misunderstanding and misapplication of quantum physics.

(text in bold, my comments unbolded)

The placebo effect and spontaneous remission are consciousness events [psychological and immunological events respectively], and more specifically events in which consciousness and matter interact[consciousness is an emergent property of matter] to naturally change or transform diseased structures into healing process [how?] or flow [good feel stuff. Defintion?]. At the level of reality at which this event takes place, it is not even an interaction [there is never a reaction, one is the result of the other, an emergent property], it is a reality in which consciousness-matter, or as it is more popularly known, mind-body, are not different but are virtualities not committed to either condition [in fact, there is no concsiousness at the quantum level, there are just physical quantum entities], yet the potential of both. It is, in other words, a level of quantum reality [only if you completely and utterly misunderstand and misapply].

Quantum theory describes the state of reality in which something, for example, light simultaneously displays the properties of being both matter and pure energy waveform [no, light displays the properties of both particles and waves, but never simulataneously, and neither is it actually a particle or a wave. That is just analogy with objects of the macroscopic world]. Here, sudden shifts of state, quantum shifts, instantaneously occur,[I think he talking about decoherence or collapse of the wave function, but it is hard to tell] all is interconnected [only entangled "particles" are interconnected, and only until they interact with other "particles"]and uncertainty reigns [there is no uncertainty about the results of quantum processes. They are completely predictable. Uncertainty is misapplied. Uncertainly refers to the complementary pairs such that the more accurately the value of one is known, the less accurately the value of the other is known]. We too exist on this level [confusion between macroscopic and microscopic levels. "we", or consciousness/mind, exist only on the macroscopic level], part of this natural process, influencing it [no, comsciousness cannot change the outcome of even a single quantum reaction] and being influenced by it at subtle levels [any effect of microscopic quantum events on everyday macroscopic events are vanishingly rare, and, if they do occur, are random in their effects] where outer structure is only a passing reflection of this continuing deep inner evolution [Not "passing". The outer structure of my body is fairly stable fortunately].

regards,
BillyJoe

I once came across a doctor from the east coast. She was a beleiver in the fact that many early childhood vaccinations are the cause of certain disorders later on in life - A.D.D., Down syndrome. Her credentials were stripped from her after writing about the subject and she was black balled from the medical industries. There was some sort of prrof in her findings and im interested to rediscover this persons name.

ANyways, the universe often reflects itself and the energy found in the universe is exactly the same on all levels. in relation to homeopathy and quantum physics, it is a matter of belief. =)

__________________
http://holisticcuresremedies.blogspot.com
Choose nature and succeed!!! Holistic Medicine is the key!!!
Oh and blog early and often.

The evidence points in the direction that conventional vaccines are effective and that homoeopathic vaccines are not.
As I said:
There is lots of almost incontrovertable evidence that conventional vaccines are effective.
There is no evidence that homoeopathic vaccines are erffective






Perhaps I could first quote Peter Fisher from a transcript of a video interview he did a short time ago. Peter Fisher, as you may know is a homeopath at the London homoeopathic Hospital and a fairly prominent spokesperson for homoeopathy.
This is what he had to say on the subject of homoeopathic vaccines:

And what of prominent homoeopathic organisations?
http://www.ncirs.usyd.edu.au/facts/h...accination.pdf




Here are some links and quotes regarding the HIB vaccine I mentioned in the last post:

Effectiveness of Hib vaccine introduction into routine childhood immunization in Kenya
http://www.hibaction.org/news/2007/2...Bangladesh.pdf
CJO - Abstract - The effectiveness of <em>Haemophilus influenzae</em> type b conjugate vaccines in a high risk population measured using immunization register data
Blackwell Synergy - Clin Otolaryngol, Volume 24 Issue 5 Page 447-448, October 1999 (Article Abstract)
Lesson of the week: Haemophilus influenzae type b epiglottitis as a cause of acute upper airways obstruction in children
NNii. Vaccine Information
Hib Vaccine - Side Effects
The Hib vaccine - BabyCenter