Dear all,

interesting research results:

J Altern Complement Med. 2006 Jun;12(5):421-7.

Effect of low doses and high homeopathic potencies in normal and
cancerous human lymphocytes: an in vitro isopathic study.
Walchli C, Baumgartner S, Bastide M.
Institute for Complementary Medicine (KIKOM), University of Bern, Bern,
Switzerland. waelchli (AT) hiscia (DOT) ch

OBJECTIVES: Biologic effects of high homeopathic potencies can be
studied in cell cultures using cell lines or primary cells. We
hypothesized that primary cells would be more apt to respond to high
potencies than cell lines, especially cancer cell lines. We set out to
investigate the effects of low doses and high homeopathic potencies of
cadmium chloride, respectively, in an intoxication model with human
primary lymphocytes compared to a human leukemia cell line (Jurkat).

DESIGN: Cells were pretreated with either low concentrations (nM-microM)
or high potencies (pool 15-20c) of cadmium for 120 hours, following
which they were exposed to a toxic treatment with a range of cadmium
concentrations (8-80 microM) during 24 hours. Cell viability was
eventually assessed by use of the MTS/PES assay. Controls included a
vehicle (NaCl 0.9%) for the low concentrations of cadmium or water
15-20c for cadmium 15-20c. A total of 34 experiments were conducted, 23
with low concentrations and 11 with high potencies of cadmium. Data were
analyzed by analysis of variance.

RESULTS: Pretreatment with low concentrations or high potencies of
cadmium significantly increased cell viability in primary lymphocytes
after toxic challenge, compared to control cells (mean effect +/-
standard error = 19% +/- 0.9% for low concentrations respectively 8% +/-
0.6% for high potencies of cadmium; p < 0.001 in both cases). The
pretreatment effect of low doses was significant also in cancerous
lymphocytes (4% +/- 0.5%; p < 0.001), albeit weaker than in normal
lymphocytes. However, high homeopathic potencies had no effect on
cancerous lymphocytes (1% +/- 1.9%; p = 0.45).

CONCLUSIONS: High homeopathic potencies exhibit a biologic effect on
cell cultures of normal primary lymphocytes. Cancerous lymphocytes
(Jurkat), having lost the ability to respond to regulatory signals, seem
to be fairly unresponsive to high homeopathic potencies.
-------------------------
Best,

Gaby

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gaby Rottler,
Germany
rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de

http://www.curantur.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Gabby,

A very learned assessment of homeopathic remedy on cancerous
cells in vitro; BUT not a homeopathic assessment.
Homeopathy works in conjunction with the immune system - you
cant have one without the other.
To remove the body's reaction to a homeopathic remedy
is stealing the main thrust of homeopathy. We know
homeopathy reinforces the IM system to counter the ailment.
To isolate the VF's interaction to the remedy lays homeopathy
wanting - comparing 'oranges to apples.'
Only when science evolves a method to assess individual
reaction to homeopathic remedies, will we see a true appraisal.
And I cant see that happening with the present method of scientific
investigation vis-a vis homeopathy.

Jeff Tikari

..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gaby Rottler" <rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de>
To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>; <minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:11 AM
Subject: [H] Research


> Dear all,
>
> interesting research results:
>
> J Altern Complement Med. 2006 Jun;12(5):421-7.
>
> Effect of low doses and high homeopathic potencies in normal and
> cancerous human lymphocytes: an in vitro isopathic study.
> Walchli C, Baumgartner S, Bastide M.
> Institute for Complementary Medicine (KIKOM), University of Bern, Bern,
> Switzerland. waelchli (AT) hiscia (DOT) ch
>
> OBJECTIVES: Biologic effects of high homeopathic potencies can be
> studied in cell cultures using cell lines or primary cells. We
> hypothesized that primary cells would be more apt to respond to high
> potencies than cell lines, especially cancer cell lines. We set out to
> investigate the effects of low doses and high homeopathic potencies of
> cadmium chloride, respectively, in an intoxication model with human
> primary lymphocytes compared to a human leukemia cell line (Jurkat).
>
> DESIGN: Cells were pretreated with either low concentrations (nM-microM)
> or high potencies (pool 15-20c) of cadmium for 120 hours, following
> which they were exposed to a toxic treatment with a range of cadmium
> concentrations (8-80 microM) during 24 hours. Cell viability was
> eventually assessed by use of the MTS/PES assay. Controls included a
> vehicle (NaCl 0.9%) for the low concentrations of cadmium or water
> 15-20c for cadmium 15-20c. A total of 34 experiments were conducted, 23
> with low concentrations and 11 with high potencies of cadmium. Data were
> analyzed by analysis of variance.
>
> RESULTS: Pretreatment with low concentrations or high potencies of
> cadmium significantly increased cell viability in primary lymphocytes
> after toxic challenge, compared to control cells (mean effect +/-
> standard error = 19% +/- 0.9% for low concentrations respectively 8% +/-
> 0.6% for high potencies of cadmium; p < 0.001 in both cases). The
> pretreatment effect of low doses was significant also in cancerous
> lymphocytes (4% +/- 0.5%; p < 0.001), albeit weaker than in normal
> lymphocytes. However, high homeopathic potencies had no effect on
> cancerous lymphocytes (1% +/- 1.9%; p = 0.45).
>
> CONCLUSIONS: High homeopathic potencies exhibit a biologic effect on
> cell cultures of normal primary lymphocytes. Cancerous lymphocytes
> (Jurkat), having lost the ability to respond to regulatory signals, seem
> to be fairly unresponsive to high homeopathic potencies.
> -------------------------
> Best,
>
> Gaby
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Gaby Rottler,
> Germany
> rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de
>
> http://www.curantur.de
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>

Hi Jeff,

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, jtikari wrote:

> Dear Gabby,
>
> A very learned assessment of homeopathic remedy on cancerous
> cells in vitro; BUT not a homeopathic assessment.
> Homeopathy works in conjunction with the immune system - you
> cant have one without the other.
> To remove the body's reaction to a homeopathic remedy is stealing the main
> thrust of homeopathy. We know homeopathy reinforces the IM system to counter
> the ailment.

Luise:

We *know* nothing of the sort. It is but one model of explanation -
and not a very good one at that, IMO.

The immune system is just one part of the body's or system's
mechanisms (or whatever you may call it) that work to maintain health
and fight illness.

Jeff:

> To isolate the VF's interaction to the remedy lays homeopathy wanting -
> comparing 'oranges to apples.'
> Only when science evolves a method to assess individual
> reaction to homeopathic remedies, will we see a true appraisal.
> And I cant see that happening with the present method of scientific
> investigation vis-a vis homeopathy.
>
Luise:

Research like this shows that high potencies, i.e. the "nothings" can
have an influence on cells in vitro. That definitely is a step in the
right direction.

Don't forget that nowadays the basic difference beteen regular
medicine and homeopathy is not the question of whether remedies work
the homeopathic or the allopathic way. That was so at Hahnemann's
times - but regular medicine has changed in the meantime.

To-day the basic difference is that reg. med. (and other science) do
not consider it possible that such highly diluted substances, having
few or no molecules to do the work, can be effective. (The question of
potentisation is not considered). *Any* way of showing that they can
be effective in any manner whatsoever or even that they are different
from plain water resp. water/alcohol mixture shows that reg. the
opinion of med/science must be wrong.

And in vitro experiments can be demonstrated again and again. It is
just the question of individualization that has made objective proof
impossible up to now.

The questions having to do with individualizations have to be
researched and solved within the homeopathic community not outside.

Regards

Luise


>
> .
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gaby Rottler" <rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de>
> To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>; <minutus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:11 AM
> Subject: [H] Research
>
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> interesting research results:
>>
>> J Altern Complement Med. 2006 Jun;12(5):421-7.
>>
>> Effect of low doses and high homeopathic potencies in normal and
>> cancerous human lymphocytes: an in vitro isopathic study.
>> Walchli C, Baumgartner S, Bastide M. Institute for Complementary Medicine
>> (KIKOM), University of Bern, Bern,
>> Switzerland. waelchli (AT) hiscia (DOT) ch
>>
>> OBJECTIVES: Biologic effects of high homeopathic potencies can be
>> studied in cell cultures using cell lines or primary cells. We
>> hypothesized that primary cells would be more apt to respond to high
>> potencies than cell lines, especially cancer cell lines. We set out to
>> investigate the effects of low doses and high homeopathic potencies of
>> cadmium chloride, respectively, in an intoxication model with human
>> primary lymphocytes compared to a human leukemia cell line (Jurkat).
>> DESIGN: Cells were pretreated with either low concentrations (nM-microM)
>> or high potencies (pool 15-20c) of cadmium for 120 hours, following
>> which they were exposed to a toxic treatment with a range of cadmium
>> concentrations (8-80 microM) during 24 hours. Cell viability was
>> eventually assessed by use of the MTS/PES assay. Controls included a
>> vehicle (NaCl 0.9%) for the low concentrations of cadmium or water
>> 15-20c for cadmium 15-20c. A total of 34 experiments were conducted, 23
>> with low concentrations and 11 with high potencies of cadmium. Data were
>> analyzed by analysis of variance.
>> RESULTS: Pretreatment with low concentrations or high potencies of
>> cadmium significantly increased cell viability in primary lymphocytes
>> after toxic challenge, compared to control cells (mean effect +/-
>> standard error = 19% +/- 0.9% for low concentrations respectively 8% +/-
>> 0.6% for high potencies of cadmium; p < 0.001 in both cases). The
>> pretreatment effect of low doses was significant also in cancerous
>> lymphocytes (4% +/- 0.5%; p < 0.001), albeit weaker than in normal
>> lymphocytes. However, high homeopathic potencies had no effect on
>> cancerous lymphocytes (1% +/- 1.9%; p = 0.45).
>> CONCLUSIONS: High homeopathic potencies exhibit a biologic effect on
>> cell cultures of normal primary lymphocytes. Cancerous lymphocytes
>> (Jurkat), having lost the ability to respond to regulatory signals, seem
>> to be fairly unresponsive to high homeopathic potencies.
>> -------------------------
>> Best,
>>
>> Gaby
>>
>> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>> Gaby Rottler, Germany
>> rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de
>>
>> http://www.curantur.de
>> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

I also think that in-vitro experiments with homeopathic solutions are
valuable experimental tool that can help we better understand how homeopathy
works. It is intriguing if the Law of Similars is also valid with in-vitro
isolated cells.

A preliminary in-vitro experiment with frozen-thawed spermatozoa showed that
addition of a drop of a Bach flower combination in the medium immediately
after thawing, significantly increase the motility of the spermatozoa as
compared with the control. This experiment showed that Bach flowers may have
beneficial effect not only on organism level, but also on cells isolated
out of the body. (non published results).

Christo



> Luise:
>
> Research like this shows that high potencies, i.e. the "nothings" can
> have an influence on cells in vitro. That definitely is a step in the
> right direction.
>
> Don't forget that nowadays the basic difference beteen regular
> medicine and homeopathy is not the question of whether remedies work
> the homeopathic or the allopathic way. That was so at Hahnemann's
> times - but regular medicine has changed in the meantime.
>
> To-day the basic difference is that reg. med. (and other science) do
> not consider it possible that such highly diluted substances, having
> few or no molecules to do the work, can be effective. (The question of
> potentisation is not considered). *Any* way of showing that they can
> be effective in any manner whatsoever or even that they are different
> from plain water resp. water/alcohol mixture shows that reg. the
> opinion of med/science must be wrong.
>
> And in vitro experiments can be demonstrated again and again. It is
> just the question of individualization that has made objective proof
> impossible up to now.
>
> The questions having to do with individualizations have to be
> researched and solved within the homeopathic community not outside.
>
> Regards
>
> Luise

Hi Jeff,

> Dear Gabby,

Just for the record:

Gaby (only 1 'b' )! ;-)

> A very learned assessment of homeopathic remedy on cancerous
> cells in vitro; BUT not a homeopathic assessment. Homeopathy
> works in conjunction with the immune system - you cant have
> one without the other. To remove the body's reaction to a
> homeopathic remedy
> is stealing the main thrust of homeopathy. We know
> homeopathy reinforces the IM system to counter the ailment.
> To isolate the VF's interaction to the remedy lays homeopathy
> wanting - comparing 'oranges to apples.'
> Only when science evolves a method to assess individual
> reaction to homeopathic remedies, will we see a true
> appraisal. And I cant see that happening with the present
> method of scientific investigation vis-a vis homeopathy.

I think we should be careful to use sentences like

> We know homeopathy reinforces the IM system to counter the ailment.

Personal opinions, or even well-educated guesses should be
differentiated from what is regarded as a *fact*, and even the latter is
often only a 'preliminary fact' in the development of knowledge.

To talk about homoeopathy working with the immune system is an
assumption. To maintain you can't have one without the other is a
personal opinion, which you are entitled to have of course, but it is
not backed up by homoeopathic theory, text-books, writings or
experiences.

May be we will learn more about the mechanisms of homoeopathy during the
next years, but it may also take decades (or more?).

This sort of research is interesting because of several points:
- cell lines are usully not prone to a placebo effect from the view of
conventional medicine
- cancer and the like is still a field where conventional medicine
doesn't always have the catchy recommendations 'do this for that - and
that's it'.

So there is still a need for research, an admittance of seeing limits in
therapy, of feeling helpless perhaps....and only where theere is a need
to look for other options the scientific field will further investigate.

The recent publications about Sabal-s and prostate cancer cell lines
may also lead into this direction.

>From the classical point of view not really a homoeopathic approach, but
conventional medicine really often doesn't differentiate, as long as a
homoeopathically prepared remedy is involved.
If a remedy is in given a 6C or higher for many people (scientists
included), that's homoeopathy: they have no idea what is isopathic
approach, what is 'recipe medicine', what differentiate Schüssler's cell
salts (though potentized remedies they are) from homoeopathy, and why
complex preparations aren't homoeopathic either, even if it's written on
the label.

Time and efforts are needed first to understand the principle.

Best,

Gaby

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gaby Rottler,
Germany
rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de

http://www.curantur.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quoting Gaby's posting:

< CONCLUSIONS:
High homeopathic potencies exhibit a biologic
effect on cell cultures of normal primary
lymphocytes,Cancerous lymphocytes(Jurkat), having lost the
ability to respond to regulatory signals, seem to be fairly
unresponsive to high homeopathic potencies.>

These experimental normal primary lymphocytes
demonstrate biological responses to high homeopathic
potencies because they are able to response to vibratory
signatures and their concomitant harmonics ,as cellular
signals by electromagnetic resonance . Whereas, the
cancerous lymphocytes have lost their biomagnetism ;
hence,these non-magnetic cancerous cells cannot resonate to
the electromagnetic regulatory signals of the high
homeopathic potencies. I will try to trace the author of
this information which I gleaned through casual reading.

With regards
Lew

Gaby
This would mean all the case results from all cancer cases using high ch and constant repetition are null and void. Sorry but the success's are too many and varied, and highly documented. We certainly do need to understand a lot more befor taking this at face value, to me it is too one sided, and does not address the whole of the science of homoeopathy. Below the 12ch one still has some amount of physical activity in the properties, have they simply proven a "chemical" change and the dynamics of the higher potency were not tested at all? hmmm
merrilee

Gaby Rottler <rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de> wrote:
Dear all,

interesting research results:

J Altern Complement Med. 2006 Jun;12(5):421-7.

Effect of low doses and high homeopathic potencies in normal and
cancerous human lymphocytes: an in vitro isopathic study.
Walchli C, Baumgartner S, Bastide M.
Institute for Complementary Medicine (KIKOM), University of Bern, Bern,
Switzerland. waelchli (AT) hiscia (DOT) ch

OBJECTIVES: Biologic effects of high homeopathic potencies can be
studied in cell cultures using cell lines or primary cells. We
hypothesized that primary cells would be more apt to respond to high
potencies than cell lines, especially cancer cell lines. We set out to
investigate the effects of low doses and high homeopathic potencies of
cadmium chloride, respectively, in an intoxication model with human
primary lymphocytes compared to a human leukemia cell line (Jurkat).

DESIGN: Cells were pretreated with either low concentrations (nM-microM)
or high potencies (pool 15-20c) of cadmium for 120 hours, following
which they were exposed to a toxic treatment with a range of cadmium
concentrations (8-80 microM) during 24 hours. Cell viability was
eventually assessed by use of the MTS/PES assay. Controls included a
vehicle (NaCl 0.9%) for the low concentrations of cadmium or water
15-20c for cadmium 15-20c. A total of 34 experiments were conducted, 23
with low concentrations and 11 with high potencies of cadmium. Data were
analyzed by analysis of variance.

RESULTS: Pretreatment with low concentrations or high potencies of
cadmium significantly increased cell viability in primary lymphocytes
after toxic challenge, compared to control cells (mean effect +/-
standard error = 19% +/- 0.9% for low concentrations respectively 8% +/-
0.6% for high potencies of cadmium; p < 0.001 in both cases). The
pretreatment effect of low doses was significant also in cancerous
lymphocytes (4% +/- 0.5%; p < 0.001), albeit weaker than in normal
lymphocytes. However, high homeopathic potencies had no effect on
cancerous lymphocytes (1% +/- 1.9%; p = 0.45).

CONCLUSIONS: High homeopathic potencies exhibit a biologic effect on
cell cultures of normal primary lymphocytes. Cancerous lymphocytes
(Jurkat), having lost the ability to respond to regulatory signals, seem
to be fairly unresponsive to high homeopathic potencies.
-------------------------
Best,

Gaby

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gaby Rottler,
Germany
rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de

http://www.curantur.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have there been more studies like this one?

W





Op Di, 12 december, 2006 6:41 am schreef Gaby Rottler:
- Dear all,
-
- interesting research results:
-
- J Altern Complement Med. 2006 Jun;12(5):421-7.
-
- Effect of low doses and high homeopathic potencies in normal and
- cancerous human lymphocytes: an in vitro isopathic study.
- Walchli C, Baumgartner S, Bastide M.
- Institute for Complementary Medicine (KIKOM), University of Bern, Bern,
- Switzerland. waelchli (AT) hiscia (DOT) ch
-
- OBJECTIVES: Biologic effects of high homeopathic potencies can be
- studied in cell cultures using cell lines or primary cells. We
- hypothesized that primary cells would be more apt to respond to high
- potencies than cell lines, especially cancer cell lines. We set out to
- investigate the effects of low doses and high homeopathic potencies of
- cadmium chloride, respectively, in an intoxication model with human
- primary lymphocytes compared to a human leukemia cell line (Jurkat).
-
- DESIGN: Cells were pretreated with either low concentrations (nM-microM)
- or high potencies (pool 15-20c) of cadmium for 120 hours, following
- which they were exposed to a toxic treatment with a range of cadmium
- concentrations (8-80 microM) during 24 hours. Cell viability was
- eventually assessed by use of the MTS/PES assay. Controls included a
- vehicle (NaCl 0.9%) for the low concentrations of cadmium or water
- 15-20c for cadmium 15-20c. A total of 34 experiments were conducted, 23
- with low concentrations and 11 with high potencies of cadmium. Data were
- analyzed by analysis of variance.
-
- RESULTS: Pretreatment with low concentrations or high potencies of
- cadmium significantly increased cell viability in primary lymphocytes
- after toxic challenge, compared to control cells (mean effect +/-
- standard error = 19% +/- 0.9% for low concentrations respectively 8% +/-
- 0.6% for high potencies of cadmium; p < 0.001 in both cases). The
- pretreatment effect of low doses was significant also in cancerous
- lymphocytes (4% +/- 0.5%; p < 0.001), albeit weaker than in normal
- lymphocytes. However, high homeopathic potencies had no effect on
- cancerous lymphocytes (1% +/- 1.9%; p = 0.45).
-
- CONCLUSIONS: High homeopathic potencies exhibit a biologic effect on
- cell cultures of normal primary lymphocytes. Cancerous lymphocytes
- (Jurkat), having lost the ability to respond to regulatory signals, seem
- to be fairly unresponsive to high homeopathic potencies.
- -------------------------
- Best,
-
- Gaby
-
- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Gaby Rottler,
- Germany
- rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de
-
- http://www.curantur.de
- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
-
-
-
-

> Have there been more studies like this one?

Those of you interested in fundamental research involving in vitro & vivo
models might find useful visiting GIRI website - an International Research
Group on Very Low Dose and High Dilution Effects at:
http://www.entretiens-internationaux.mc/giri.htm

Here is one quote from the site concerning similia-principle at the cellular
level:

"Do Studies on the Similia-principle at the Cellular Level Have any
Significance?

It has been argued that the similia-principle has been formulated for the
organismal level and therefore can not be verified or falsified by research
on the cellular level alone.
There is, of course, a clear difference between research on the
similia-principle as described here and the clinical practice. The first
difference is the systemic level or level of organization which is studied
or treated (cells versus organisms). Secondly, in our experiments cells are
brought into a pathological condition, whereas patients who come to a doctor
already are in this condition. Thirdly, cells are grown in cultures and
treated as a group. Their behaviour and response with respect to the process
of self-recovery is evaluated as the mean of the total population. There is
of course a variability in self-recovery. Thus, not only cells showing a
fast and spontaneous recovery, but also cells showing a slow and hampered
self-recovery are evaluated. In contrast to research with patients, a single
case approach or a time-series design for studies on the behaviour of
individual cells is not possible or is extremely complex.
However, we expect the assumption of the similia-principle as
being a general biological phenomenon to gain weight by the study at the
cellular level of regulatory processes underlying this principle. The
demonstration of the stimulation of self-recovery by compounds according to
the similia-principle will substantiate the fundamental basis of homeopathy
and will improve the acceptance of this basic point of view in bio-medicine.
"

Regards

Hi Wiet,

> Have there been more studies like this one?

I posted some studies in the past.

I've now included the recent studies on my WebSite and will also do so
in the future, so just check it from time to time.

Best,

Gaby

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gaby Rottler,
Germany
rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de

http://www.curantur.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~