Hello Gaby,
Taking a bit far from Roger's question.
I am not familiar with Jahr's works except '40 Years
Practice'. Some questions;
1.If, as you had found out , that Lilienthal's work is
adapted from Jahr's work, is it just the repertory
part or the entire mm + clinical jist which Lilienthal
gives for each remedy after the repertory in each
chapter ?
2. Does Jahr's work have similar therapeutic hints ?
3. I have seen Julian Winston mention that Sam adapted
Lilienthal. Would Sam's acknowledgements have gone
into those prefaces omitted by Bjain ?
4. Did Jahr use nosodes ? I remember Sam has mentioned
psorinum and medorrhinum.
Regards
venkat





> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:30:33 +0200
> From: "Gaby Rottler" <rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de>
> Subject: RE: [H] Samuel Lilienthal
> To: "'Van_Zandvoort Roger'"
> <rogervanzandvoort (AT) mac (DOT) com>,
> <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
> Message-ID:
> <000201c6c610$b1a90ba0$c200a8c0@rottlerkpp6oz9>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> > Is there anybody who has good references that
> point out how the
> > degree system in Lilienthal's MM corresponds to
> the degrees
> > in Kent's
> > repertory. Have looked many places, but did not
> find a thing,
>
> I wrote about Lilienthal already in May 2004 the
> following explanation:
> -----------------------
> I got my copy of Lilienthal only a couple of weeks
> ago, so I didn't
> compare till now where the sources came from. My
> edition comes from
> Jain, reprint ed. 2003. It starts with a preface to
> the 4th ed., then
> the preface to the 5th ed., then the preface to the
> 3rd ed. from 1890 -
> 1154 pages.
>
> Now to Jahr:
> First of all, the German 'Symptomen-Kodex' I have
> (reprint from 1848,
> foreword written in Paris, 1842) is just Materia
> medica (2 vol.),
> without Rep.
> The German Manual is a huge volume, consisting of MM
> and Rep.
> I knew that neither of them could have served as a
> basis for
> Lilienthal's work, regarding the totally different
> structure.
>
> I took a look at the English version of '40 ys of
> practice' by Jahr. No
> - too small, different structure, though some very
> slight similarity.
>
> Then I searched in my library for some of the other
> books written by
> Jahr, from some of them I have only
> fragments....photostated copies of
> important parts. One I like especially concerning
> the _general_ remarks
> is the book:
>
> 'Klinische Anweisungen zu homoeopathischer
> Behandlung der Krankheiten'
> by G.H.G. Jahr. (Clinical instructions to the
> homoeopathic treatment of
> diseases)
> - 1st ed. Paris, 1849
> - 2nd ed. Paris, 1853
> - 3rd ed. Paris, 1866
>
> The introduction covers 16 pages - and is a sort of
> resume of the
> teachings of Homoeopathy: using 32 paragraphs, Jahr
> explains how to do
> it what to expect, what to avoid.
>
> Then, on p. 17, the clinical instructions begin.
>
> Let me quote on page 19 what Jahr writes about
> abscesses:
>
> "Abscesse, innere und äussere. - §1. Die Abscesse in
> den inneren Theilen
> verlangen im Allgemeinen keine anderen Arzneimittel
> als die der äusseren
> Theile. Vorzugsweise kann man jederzeit anwenden:
> a) Gegen akute Abscesse: 1) bell. hep. merc. sil. 2)
> ars. asa. bry.
> cepa. cham. hep. led. mez. phosph. puls. sulph
> b) Gegen chronische Abscesse, sowohl kalte als durch
> Congestionen
> entstandene: asa. aur. calc.carb-v. con. hep. jod.
> laur. lyc. mang.
> merc-c. nitr-ac. phosph. sep. sil. sulph
>
> In English (my translation):
> " Abscesses, internal and external ones. §1.
> Abscesses in internal parts
> generally require no other remedies as those of the
> external parts.
> Preferably one can use each time:
> a) for acute abscesses: ......
> b) for chronic abscesses, cold ones as well as those
> caused by
> congestions: ....."
>
> Now let's have a look at Lilienthal's 'Homoeopathic
> Therapeutics':
>
> "Internal abscesses generally require the same
> remedies as external. A
> preference should be given: a. For acute abscesses,
> to: 1, Bell., Hep.,
> Merc., Sil.; 2, Apis, Ars, Asa, Bry, Cepa, Cham,
> Hep., Lach., Led.,
> Mez., Phos., Puls, Sulph. b. For chronic abscesses,
> whether cold or
> occasioned by congestions, to: Asa, Aur., Calc.,
> Carb.v., Con., Hep.,
> Iod., Laur., Lyc., Mang., Merc., Merc.cor.,
> Nitr.ac.,
=== message truncated ===

Hi Venkat,

> Taking a bit far from Roger's question.
> I am not familiar with Jahr's works except '40 Years
> Practice'.

All of Jahr is extremely good reading. He was a school-teacher, so he is
much easier to read and understand than some of his contemporary
homoeoapths, who were mainly medical doctors.

> Some questions;
> 1.If, as you had found out , that Lilienthal's work is
> adapted from Jahr's work, is it just the repertory
> part or the entire mm + clinical jist which Lilienthal
> gives for each remedy after the repertory in each
> chapter ?

It's like:
Lilienthal took Jahr's work, and completed it with other sources.
E.g. Abscesses: Jahr lists the MM of Ars, Asa, Bell, Bry, Mez Puls,
Rhus-t. Lilienthal took Jahr's descriptions (sometimes word by word),
added eventually more symptomes to the existing remedies and added the
MM of other remedies.

> 2. Does Jahr's work have similar therapeutic hints ?

Yes, of course. It IS a clinical book.

> 3. I have seen Julian Winston mention that Sam adapted
> Lilienthal. Would Sam's acknowledgements have gone
> into those prefaces omitted by Bjain ?

Sam? What exactly do you mean? Samuel keynotes?

> 4. Did Jahr use nosodes ? I remember Sam has mentioned
> psorinum and medorrhinum.

Of course Jahr was familiar with Psorinum, as this was extensively
proved by Hering. But he didn't list this remedy in his
'Symptomen-Codex', one of his MMs, which was published in 1848, nor in
his Manual edition of 1851 (But he lists Psorinum in his 1835 edition).
If he used it, I don't know exactly.

Medorrhinum?? - Well, this would have been difficult.....Medorrhinum was
introduced/used by Swan in the Mid-1870s, formally proved in 1885. Jahr
died in 1875.

Best,

Gaby

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gaby Rottler,
Germany
rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de

http://www.curantur.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Helping Gaby here

On 23-aug-2006, at 14:19, Venkat wrote:

>
> Hello Gaby,
> Taking a bit far from Roger's question.
> I am not familiar with Jahr's works except '40 Years
> Practice'. Some questions;
> 1.If, as you had found out , that Lilienthal's work is
> adapted from Jahr's work, is it just the repertory
> part or the entire mm + clinical jist which Lilienthal
> gives for each remedy after the repertory in each
> chapter ?
more the clinical, since adapted from Klinische Erfahrungen and
enhanced with material from articles of the day.
> 2. Does Jahr's work have similar therapeutic hints ?
Klinische Erfahrungen especially, since presented in degrees
depending on clinical verification.
> 3. I have seen Julian Winston mention that Sam adapted
> Lilienthal. Would Sam's acknowledgements have gone
> into those prefaces omitted by Bjain ?
??
> 4. Did Jahr use nosodes ? I remember Sam has mentioned
> psorinum and medorrhinum.
sure he did,

be well,

Roger

> Regards
> venkat
>
>
>
>
>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:30:33 +0200
>> From: "Gaby Rottler" <rottler (AT) curantur (DOT) de>
>> Subject: RE: [H] Samuel Lilienthal
>> To: "'Van_Zandvoort Roger'"
>> <rogervanzandvoort (AT) mac (DOT) com>,
>> <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
>> Message-ID:
>> <000201c6c610$b1a90ba0$c200a8c0@rottlerkpp6oz9>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi Roger,
>>
>>> Is there anybody who has good references that
>> point out how the
>>> degree system in Lilienthal's MM corresponds to
>> the degrees
>>> in Kent's
>>> repertory. Have looked many places, but did not
>> find a thing,
>>
>> I wrote about Lilienthal already in May 2004 the
>> following explanation:
>> -----------------------
>> I got my copy of Lilienthal only a couple of weeks
>> ago, so I didn't
>> compare till now where the sources came from. My
>> edition comes from
>> Jain, reprint ed. 2003. It starts with a preface to
>> the 4th ed., then
>> the preface to the 5th ed., then the preface to the
>> 3rd ed. from 1890 -
>> 1154 pages.
>>
>> Now to Jahr:
>> First of all, the German 'Symptomen-Kodex' I have
>> (reprint from 1848,
>> foreword written in Paris, 1842) is just Materia
>> medica (2 vol.),
>> without Rep.
>> The German Manual is a huge volume, consisting of MM
>> and Rep.
>> I knew that neither of them could have served as a
>> basis for
>> Lilienthal's work, regarding the totally different
>> structure.
>>
>> I took a look at the English version of '40 ys of
>> practice' by Jahr. No
>> - too small, different structure, though some very
>> slight similarity.
>>
>> Then I searched in my library for some of the other
>> books written by
>> Jahr, from some of them I have only
>> fragments....photostated copies of
>> important parts. One I like especially concerning
>> the _general_ remarks
>> is the book:
>>
>> 'Klinische Anweisungen zu homoeopathischer
>> Behandlung der Krankheiten'
>> by G.H.G. Jahr. (Clinical instructions to the
>> homoeopathic treatment of
>> diseases)
>> - 1st ed. Paris, 1849
>> - 2nd ed. Paris, 1853
>> - 3rd ed. Paris, 1866
>>
>> The introduction covers 16 pages - and is a sort of
>> resume of the
>> teachings of Homoeopathy: using 32 paragraphs, Jahr
>> explains how to do
>> it what to expect, what to avoid.
>>
>> Then, on p. 17, the clinical instructions begin.
>>
>> Let me quote on page 19 what Jahr writes about
>> abscesses:
>>
>> "Abscesse, innere und äussere. - §1. Die Abscesse in
>> den inneren Theilen
>> verlangen im Allgemeinen keine anderen Arzneimittel
>> als die der äusseren
>> Theile. Vorzugsweise kann man jederzeit anwenden:
>> a) Gegen akute Abscesse: 1) bell. hep. merc. sil. 2)
>> ars. asa. bry.
>> cepa. cham. hep. led. mez. phosph. puls. sulph
>> b) Gegen chronische Abscesse, sowohl kalte als durch
>> Congestionen
>> entstandene: asa. aur. calc.carb-v. con. hep. jod.
>> laur. lyc. mang.
>> merc-c. nitr-ac. phosph. sep. sil. sulph
>>
>> In English (my translation):
>> " Abscesses, internal and external ones. §1.
>> Abscesses in internal parts
>> generally require no other remedies as those of the
>> external parts.
>> Preferably one can use each time:
>> a) for acute abscesses: ......
>> b) for chronic abscesses, cold ones as well as those
>> caused by
>> congestions: ....."
>>
>> Now let's have a look at Lilienthal's 'Homoeopathic
>> Therapeutics':
>>
>> "Internal abscesses generally require the same
>> remedies as external. A
>> preference should be given: a. For acute abscesses,
>> to: 1, Bell., Hep.,
>> Merc., Sil.; 2, Apis, Ars, Asa, Bry, Cepa, Cham,
>> Hep., Lach., Led.,
>> Mez., Phos., Puls, Sulph. b. For chronic abscesses,
>> whether cold or
>> occasioned by congestions, to: Asa, Aur., Calc.,
>> Carb.v., Con., Hep.,
>> Iod., Laur., Lyc., Mang., Merc., Merc.cor.,
>> Nitr.ac.,
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>