Hi there
Have tried constitutional prescribing for this syndrome where the bowel goes into spasm.
This is a disordered rhythm in the muscles of the GI tract.
Exaggerated segmental contractions ( these churn & mix intestinal contents) cause cramps, bloating,constipation.
Forward movement of the intestinal contents decrease and the bowel actions become harder & more compressed & harder to pass.
Propulsive contractions exaggerate & diarrhoea can result.
The most distressing of this syndrome is the pain which can vary from dull, aching, pressure, severe unbelievable cramping, burning or sharp - usually have all of the above!
Has anyone ever treated this constitutionally or otherwise?
Thanking you
Jenni Carey

Will u like to try a PROTOCOL ? I have good results.

Somenath

On 6/7/06, Jenni Carey <jencarey (AT) nrg (DOT) com.au> wrote:
> Hi there
> Have tried constitutional prescribing for this syndrome where the bowel goes
> into spasm.
> This is a disordered rhythm in the muscles of the GI tract.
> Exaggerated segmental contractions ( these churn & mix intestinal contents)
> cause cramps, bloating,constipation.
> Forward movement of the intestinal contents decrease and the bowel actions
> become harder & more compressed & harder to pass.
> Propulsive contractions exaggerate & diarrhoea can result.
> The most distressing of this syndrome is the pain which can vary from dull,
> aching, pressure, severe unbelievable cramping, burning or sharp - usually
> have all of the above!
> Has anyone ever treated this constitutionally or otherwise?
> Thanking you
> Jenni Carey
>

Asa foetida is considered a specific for IBS.

The experience here seems to have been using low potencies (6x or so),
probably at least daily, for quite a long time. (There was a clinical
trial once, forty years or so ago, which turned out significantly
positive for homeopathy. AFAIR that would have been the way of taking
it - was the usual method at that time.

Regards

Luise

--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

HI Luise/JEnni,
Irritable Bowel syndrome is a PSychosomatic problme and not a local problem.
Its best treatment to work through the totality that clearly takes into account the mental state of the patient.

Every single patient whem I have treated consitutionally have responded favourably with their IBS - often they have come for something else as chief complaint.

Having said that - there are surely cases like those of the JEnni that may have gone through anyamount of suppressive treatment in the past. The clinical way to work with these cases is to give the characteristic SENSATION (severe intermittent spasm, etc) of the trouble maximum importance in remedy selection. The remedy HAS to cover this expression in the proving symptoms:
Forward movement of the intestinal contents decrease and the bowel actions become harder & more compressed & harder to pass.
> Propulsive contractions exaggerate & diarrhoea can result.
> The most distressing of this syndrome is the pain which can vary from dull, aching, pressure, severe unbelievable cramping, burning or sharp - usually have all of the above!

PLumbum and Cuprum come to mind as remedies with the intense spasm, sharp pains and problems in propulsion - but there may be other remedies as well. Start with this and see how teh acute mental state during that time matches with the physicla pathology. That is the correct remedy at that point till symptoms are much better and more constitutional features become prominent..


All the best,
d.r leela

__________________
http://www.homeopathy2health.com

Hi Luise
Thanks for this - very interesting.
I used to practice homoeopathy and am being treated constitutionally and been going along really well and suddenly this IBS flared up - may have been underlying but for 2 years have been having no depression, lots of energy, joy de vivre etc after a hysterectomy on the constitutional remedies.
A friend who is a homoeopath has IBS and he took some Asaf and said it was brilliant.
Where do you think we could find the trials of this study?
I think if we could find the main "epidemiology" type remedies from lots of cases that have similiar symptoms then we can compare and differentiate and add to our materia medicas of the remedies that cured these cases.
Cheers
Jenni

Hi Jenni,


On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, Jenni Carey wrote:

> Hi Luise Thanks for this - very interesting. I used to practice
> homoeopathy and am being treated constitutionally and been going
> along really well and suddenly this IBS flared up - may have been
> underlying but for 2 years have been having no depression, lots of
> energy, joy de vivre etc after a hysterectomy on the constitutional
> remedies. A friend who is a homoeopath has IBS and he took some Asaf
> and said it was brilliant. Where do you think we could find the
> trials of this study?

AFAIK it was never translated into English, and those clinical trials
of the nineteensixties are now practically unknown in Germany also.

I happened to find them in an old German book on trials published at
the end of those sixties, which are indeed very interesting. They had
the book - and probably still have it:-) in the Univerity Library at
Düsseldorf.

I think I photocopied the more interesting trials, but there is not
much in them except that they were placebo-controlled, double blind
and came out statistically significant pro homeopathy.

They were of the common variety: remedy X for condition Y -- in this
case Asa foetida for IBS. There were some explanations on how
it was determined that the patient was suffering from
IBS.

I gues what happened is that Asa foetida (and the other remedies thus
tested) had been used with good success for a long time for for the
respective conditions and for this reason were chosen for a trial to
*prove* the effectiveness.


>I think if we could find the main
> "epidemiology" type remedies from lots of cases that have similiar
> symptoms then we can compare and differentiate and add to our
> materia medicas of the remedies that cured these cases.

Yes indeed.

And this would make homeopathy - effective homeopathy - available to a
lot of people in this world, who for one reason or other cannot avail
themselves of constitutional treatment, or have to be shown first that
homeopathy *can* work. After such demonstration on their own illness
or in their family/with friends, they may be more inclined to invest
in possibly long and expensive constitutional treatment.

I absolutely do not agree in the idea that this kind of homeopathy
will harm homeopathy nor that it has ever done so. The example of
Germany shows that it is rather the other way around. This very likely
applies to India also, and to the Latin American countries, where
homeopathy has survived in spite of the onslought of Regular Medicine
around the beginning of last century. Kenneth Salls some months ago
told on the list about Mexico - the way homeopathy to a great extent
is practiced there. I heard about homeopathy in India as far back as
1982 and I have made my own observations some years ago on the spot.

While classical homeopathy/constitutional treatment is is being
practiced there, it is not the mainstream and has not been (I rather
think that in Germany there was practically none of it for 100 years).
But people know about homeopathy, they know that it can work and this
is fertile grounds for the growth of classical/constitutional
homeopathy, IMO.

After working on v. Boenninghausen and learning how even this very
honorable homeopath bent facts to serve his purposes in his
publications, I am no longer surprised at the story that swerving from
the path of classical homeopathy was the death of homeopathy in the
USA. This has been propaganda plain and pure:-)

Regards

Luise
>

--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Hi Leela,

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, homeolist (AT) otherhealth (DOT) com wrote:

>
> Luise Kunkle Wrote:
>> Asa foetida is considered a specific for IBS.
>>
>> The experience here seems to have been using low potencies (6x or so),
>> probably at least daily, for quite a long time. (There was a clinical
>> trial once, forty years or so ago, which turned out significantly
>> positive for homeopathy. AFAIR that would have been the way of taking
>> it - was the usual method at that time.
>>
>
> HI Luise/JEnni,
> Irritable Bowel syndrome is a PSychosomatic problme and not a local
> problem.
> Its best treatment to work through the totality that clearly takes into
> account the mental state of the patient.
>
> Every single patient whem I have treated consitutionally have responded
> favourably with their IBS - often they have come for something else as
> chief complaint.
>
> Having said that - there are surely cases like those of the JEnni that
> may have gone through anyamount of suppressive treatment in the past.
> The clinical way to work with these cases is to give the characteristic
> SENSATION (severe intermittent spasm, etc) of the trouble maximum
> importance in remedy selection. The remedy HAS to cover this expression
> in the proving symptoms:
> -Forward movement of the intestinal contents decrease and the bowel
> actions become harder & more compressed & harder to pass.
>> Propulsive contractions exaggerate & diarrhoea can result.
>> The most distressing of this syndrome is the pain which can vary from
> dull, aching, pressure, severe unbelievable cramping, burning or sharp -
> usually have all of the above!-
>
> PLumbum and Cuprum come to mind as remedies with the intense spasm,
> sharp pains and problems in propulsion - but there may be other
> remedies as well. Start with this and see how teh acute mental state
> during that time matches with the physicla pathology. That is the
> correct remedy at that point till symptoms are much better and more
> constitutional features become prominent..
>
All this does not have the least bearing on the fact that Asa foetida
is considered a specific for IBS:-)

Regards

Luise

>

--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

On Jun 9, 2006, at 5:22 PM, Luise Kunkle wrote:

> [...] ndrome is the pain which can vary from
>> dull, aching, pressure, severe unbelievable cramping, burning or
>> sharp -
>> usually have all of the above!-
>>
>> PLumbum and Cuprum come to mind as remedies with the intense spasm,
>> sharp pains and problems in propulsion - but there may be other
>> remedies as well. Start with this and see how teh acute mental state
>> during that time matches with the physicla pathology. That is the
>> correct remedy at that point till symptoms are much better and more
>> constitutional features become prominent..
>>
> All this does not have the least bearing on the fact that Asa foetida
> is considered a specific for IBS:-)

These *might* provide examples of a difference between "specific"
(protocol?) prescribing versus symptom-based. I would guess that, in
prescribing on fuller symptom picture, there is a greater chance of
having the physicals lead to a deeper/broader remedy which will have
that lovely group of "side-effects" that we are all so fond of--curing
the specific ill, but also the temperament, mood, sensitivities, etc.,
along with it. No doubt the same can sometimes happen with "specific"
prescribing, but I assume not as a rule?
Shannon

HI Luise,
I can see that what I posted completely "went above the head" .. as we say here in India.

So I"ll explain its relevance taking things from teh top:
JEnni states taht she is on consitutional treatment which has greatly helped a large number of problems. BUt the IBS "suddenly surfaced" while she continues to be well in other general aspects. BUt the consitutional remedy is not helping wiht the IBS.

NOW, I am ASSUMING that the constituional treatment ACCURATE and is proceeding in the right direction - which means that the IBS is an OLD symptom that has expressed itself.

Given that IBS is a PSYCHOSOMATIC problems - as in hyperacidity or labile hypertension are psychosomatic/funcitonal problems, the indicated remedy, has to cover the entire symptom picture AND be complementary to the constitutional remedy.

THis remedy MAY be a "specific" lik Asafoetida that is known to help IBS, or IT MAY BE ANY OTHER REMEDY that covers the symptoms picture. In all circumstances the characteristic of the symptoms picture is important if we're looking for CURE.

WHY?
Thre are any number of reaosns:
1. IF the remedy is a partial similimum or a non indicated "specific" then we will reverse teh good work a consitutional remedy has already done which emnas you can be SURE she will develop teh smae symptoms comples that has been cured by the consitutional remedy earlier.

2. One can certianly FORCE a change in symtpoms that appear like a "cure" when IBS symptoms disappear. BUt what is leftin its wake is a NEW symptomatoloty that is deeper even more difficult to cure - as in cirrhosis of the liver, Cancer of the gall bladder, or even cancer of the colon later in life.

What is a CURATIVE response?
After a remedy (interccurrent) during constitutional treatment. The old symptoms should not recur. NO NEW symptoms should develop - as in pathology expressed in another part of the body.
What is the point of being relieved of IBS with a "specific" or a protocol, and instead develop cardiac infarct or have the old cured symptoms recur in full blast?
So homeopathic treatment cannot be fixed without taking the individaul characteristic symptmatology into account. IN doing so we're ignorig one of the CARDINAL PRINCIPLES, that of similia similibus whicn CURES, everything else cna ony palliate for a time.
IBS is not something that cna be cured with a specific remedy becasue it is a consitutional expression and NOT a local expression of disease.
But then so are most diseases.


The only way to guaruntee this is to find a remedy that covers the presentingpicture clearly 0 it ay be asafoetida or any other "specific" for IBS, but it still have to cover the symptomatology clearly. OBviously this remedy should ahve a clear sphere of action on the GIT, but more importantly it should have the type of cramping and spasmodic expression with severe burning and sharp pains that she explains.

HEre are the cahractersitics of Asafoetida:
MODALITIES:
Worse: Night. In room. Rest. After eating. Suppression. Mercury. Noise. Sitting. Warm wraps. TOUCH. Cough.
Better: Motion in open air. Pressure.
-
LEADING SYMPTOMS:
EXTREME NERVOUSNESS and OVERSENSITIVITY.
"Magnifies her symptoms" [Boger]. CRAVES SYMPATHY.
HYSTERICAL PATIENTS; faint easily in a closed room from excitement; globus hystericus.
BONES + PERIOSTEUM [pains, caries, swelling].
PRESSING pains - from within outward.
TOUCH worsens [3] or improves [3].
Internal sensation of TENSION.
PUFFED, venous, fat, flabby patients with a PURPLE face; purple when out in the cold, purple when excited; "they get no sympathy when sick because they look so well".
REVERSED PERISTALSIS. "Flatus does not pass downward but always upward." "Everything presses toward throat" [Boger]. "Enormous accumulation of flatulence all pressing upwards" [Mathur].
"Hysterical women: disposed to miscarriages, hemorrhages; breasts filled up with milk when not pregnant; deficiency of milk a few days after delivery" [Mathur].
Faintness in a closed room [2] - on excitement [2].
Pain and numbness.
Children with digestive troubles [loud rumbling and explosive belching, difficult stool] who are constantly CHEWING, as if ruminating.
Extremely offensive diarrhoea and meteorism and regurgitation of food.


Apart from other modalities, the PRINCIPLE expresison fo asafoetida sensation is REVERSE PERISTALSIS. DOes Jenni have this symptom expression in her IBS? think NOt.

I"ll be looking at another "Specific" remedy instead.
d.r leela

__________________
http://www.homeopathy2health.com

LEt me turn this around a little bit:
Asafoetida is a specific for IBS has no bearing on the fact that it will CURE the pateint! We physicians take on pateints for homeopathic treatment in order to CURE - Aphorism 1. The cure is not based on the disease expression "IBS", but on symptom similarity in the individual patient to the indicated remedy which may ahve that specific sphere of action.

SO based on my previous response in addition to teh above one - I think my explanation has a clear bearing on the use of Asafoetida for IBS. In fact it explains exactly HOW Asafoetida can or cannot be indicated in THIS particular case. :)
dr. leela

__________________
http://www.homeopathy2health.com