http://www.virusmythpoppersmyth.org/...ivaids_debate/

Folks just go to the above link. Good stuff.


Somenath

"If AIDS was caused by recreational drugs like nitrate inhalants, also
known as "poppers," and prescription drugs like zidovudine, also known
as AZT, then how could one account for the millions of cases of AIDS
that had occurred in Third World countries?"


Somenath

On 5/20/06, drsunshine <drsunshine (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> http://www.virusmythpoppersmyth.org/...ivaids_debate/
>
> Folks just go to the above link. Good stuff.
>
>
> Somenath
>

At 04:21 PM 5/20/2006 +0530, drsunshine wrote:
>http://www.virusmythpoppersmyth.org/...ivaids_debate/
>
>Folks just go to the above link. Good stuff.
>
>
>Somenath
>________________________________________

do you know who Peter Duesberg is?
do you know the full extent of what he and hundreds of other scientists
have said?
how much have you read?
do you know how many others agree with him?

how many people outside the N. America/Europe/Australia who are diagnosed
with AIDS and said that it is caused by HIV, ever even have any testing to
prove that? Its done on symptoms alone and NO proof of an HIV=AIDS link

do you know how many things give a false positive to HIV tests, for the few
who have them?

do you know how many have AIDS symptoms but are HIV negative?
do you know how many who are HIV positive who have never gone on to develop
AIDS and NEVER used the drugs either/

Start with some rational thinking. Many don't have those skills anymore.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

At 04:22 PM 5/20/2006 +0530, you wrote:
>"If AIDS was caused by recreational drugs like nitrate inhalants, also
>known as "poppers," and prescription drugs like zidovudine, also known
>as AZT, then how could one account for the millions of cases of AIDS
>that had occurred in Third World countries?"
>
>
>Somenath

And you find the above statement logical?

>
>On 5/20/06, drsunshine <drsunshine (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>> http://www.virusmythpoppersmyth.org/...ivaids_debate/
>>
>> Folks just go to the above link. Good stuff.
>>
>>
>> Somenath
>>
>

Yes, the statement is not only logical but practical as I deal with
many hiv patients both mother & child who go on to develop full bown
aids without any medications....What logic do you need here to
understand the cause & effect theory. It couldnt be more convincing
than this....

I dont care about whos who ? Many celebrity scientists have gone crazy
as history tells us..:)

By the way what does James Randi's Team tells about these myths &
theories ?,..)

Somenath

On 5/20/06, Sheri Nakken <homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net> wrote:
> At 04:22 PM 5/20/2006 +0530, you wrote:
> >"If AIDS was caused by recreational drugs like nitrate inhalants, also
> >known as "poppers," and prescription drugs like zidovudine, also known
> >as AZT, then how could one account for the millions of cases of AIDS
> >that had occurred in Third World countries?"
> >
> >
> >Somenath
>
> And you find the above statement logical?
>
> >
> >On 5/20/06, drsunshine <drsunshine (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> >> http://www.virusmythpoppersmyth.org/...ivaids_debate/
> >>
> >> Folks just go to the above link. Good stuff.
> >>
> >>
> >> Somenath
> >>
> >

Hi Somenath,
The claim re African AIDS cases is that they are caused by malnutrition
rather than the virus. (Or maybe toxicity is also proposed.)

What are the methods you have found useful in treating AIDS, and what
percentage are you able to take to long-term stability and/or
HIV-negative status?
Thanks!
Shannon

On May 20, 2006, at 7:46 AM, drsunshine wrote:

> Yes, the statement is not only logical but practical as I deal with
> many hiv patients both mother & child who go on to develop full bown
> aids without any medications....What logic do you need here to
> understand the cause & effect theory. It couldnt be more convincing
> than this....
>
> I dont care about whos who ? Many celebrity scientists have gone crazy
> as history tells us..:)
>
> By the way what does James Randi's Team tells about these myths &
> theories ?,..)
>
> Somenath

Hello all,

When debates arise about the role of viruses in disease persons tend to
fall into two camps, i.e. the rigid for or against position. One side says
"viruses are the sole cause of this disease" and other says "viruses have
nothing to with this disease". Each side accuses the other of not only
being wrong but also immoral! Such debates often go around in circles and
usually no new ground is broken. I am going to attempt to turn the soil and
look at the under lying terrain.

Hippocrates taught that natural disease is caused by an aetiological
constellation of factors not one single cause. He also noted that the one
unifying factor in all this is the human constitution (nature) and its
internal terrain (state) and how it is affected by environment factors
(nurture). The constitution, temperament, predisposition, inner terrain
and vitality are a primary factors because they control the susceptibility
and reaction to infection. Any external factors that lead to the decline in
the healthy terrain and weaken the vitality are part of the process of
infection. Emotional stress, nutritional deficiencies, toxins, poisons,
drugs, suppression, etc., play an important role in susceptibility and
inner terrain changes. The deranged inner terrain has a great effect on the
virulency of infections agents and degree of pathology they produce. Some
persons are quite healthy yet they are carrying around microorganisms that
may kill another person. Why is this?

What is the differences in these cases? Why is one person relatively
healthy and the other dying? The answer is found in within the constitution
and temperament along with predisposition and environmental factors.
Antonie Bechamp (1816-1908) was a contemporary of L. Pasteur. In fact
Pasteur got many of his ideas from Bechamp. Bechamp taught that there are
"microzymes" that were tiny proteins that are primary builders of living
cells. He stated that these proteins were capable of "polymorphism" in
which they mutate into healthy or unhealthy "zymes" depending on the nature
of the inner terrain and attendant circumstances. Although all the details
of Bechamp's hypothesis may not be correct there is much truth in his
observations. The essence of what Bechamp was pointing out is that the
positive and negative activities of bacteria, fungi and viruses depend
greatly the nature of the inner constitutional terrain! His description of
the "zymes" reminds one of some of the cutting edge ideas of virology today.

Changes in the constitutional terrain can take place depending on a
number of interdependent factors. Many of the "anti-germ theorist" also
miss this message. They see one factor or another as causative, and
therefore, some say its a particular toxin and poisons others say it is
caused by nutritional deficiencies, etc., etc. The anti-germ theorist says
the causes are "everything but germs" and and the pro-germ theorist are
saying it is "nothing but germs". Few persons are speaking about the number
1 conditioning factors in this equation, that is, the condition of the
constitution, temperament, inner terrain and environmental factors and how
these factors shape the activity of microorganisms.

Hahnemann taught that miasms were acute, half acute and chronic
infections and their sequels. Hahnemann also taught that the number 1
conditioning factor in the symptoms produced by these miasms is the
constitution, temperament and predisposition. The suppression of infections
so greatly alters the inner terrain that it increases their disease causing
potential logarithmically. Hahnemann also pointed out that the miasms
could also be inherited as part of the symptoms of the innate constitution.
He noted that over the centuries infectious diseases has mutated greatly
and increase in virulency. This is all part of the decline of man and woman
and diseases of modern civilization.

Over the centuries the suppression of natural miasms like psora,
sycosis, tuberculosis, syphilis, hepatitis BCD, etc., and artificial miasms
produced by vaccination and immunization, has caused great transformations
in the inner terrain of the human constitution. The decline of the inner
terrain and immunity corresponds with the mutation and increased virulency
of microorganisms. The factors of constitution, temperament,
predisposition, inherited miasms, acquired miasms, suppression and drugging
must be taken into account when studying the appearance of new states like
AIDS. What is the role of suppressed psora, sycosis, TB, syphilis,
hepatitis and the increase in vaccinations got to do with AIDS like states?

Is the HIV factor in some cases of AIDS signal a return to investigating
Bechamp's idea of zymes? Are there certain proteins (viruses?) that may
play a positive or neutral role in a healthy terrain that are becoming
increasing pathological in terrains disrupted by increased mental stress;
more devitalized, chemicalized, radiation exposed, genetically modified
foods; increased in environmental pollutants; increased immunizations; and
the continuous suppression of infections? Is HIV a terrain maker of this
decline in some AIDS cases? Does it play a pathological role in the rightly
disposed terrain? Does such a terrain maker get "transmitted" to a
similarly deranged internal terrain? Everyone knows the HIV/AIDS cases
don't die from HIV. They die from a host of opportunistic infections and
previously documented miasms that thrive in the AIDS terrain. All of these
miasms seem to come together as if the miasms are layering up to more
complex new heights!

I think it is time to look at the bigger picture related to the
constitution, temperament, inner terrain and the layering of miasms,
suppression and drugs. On top of this one must look at environmental
degraded, climate change and toxins, poisons and chemicals. Also don't
forget the stress of modern life, the breakdown of extended families; and
the decay of social responsibility and behavior. I do not see the bigger
picture on the anti or pro virology websites. To think that most
virologists are an evil group of persons who are part of a massive
conspiracy to trick the world solely to gain money, power and control is
too extreme. To think that all alternative views originate with quacks,
pseudo scientists and the alternative, new age "nut cases" is too extreme.
There must be a third way that does not fall into these extremes.

The virologist are working in a field that still poses a number of
unanswered questions, and many of their ideas cannot be called more than a
hypothesis at this time. This is a relatively new area of research that
does not fall into the simple boxes that the epidemiologist are more used
to like animal parasites, bacteria and fungi. There are still "holes" in
their theories and detection methods. Nevertheless, they are massing a
large amount of data that cannot be debunked totally by any means! There
certain is "something" going one here! The anti camp spends most of its
time stretching the "holes" in the reductionist, mechanist view of subject
but don't really offer anything more than a few more one-sided causes,
which also posses their own "holes" and don't fit all the facts. Few are
filling in any of the blank spaces in a positive manner.

L. Pasteur is looked on as the man who made the subject of infection
scientific. According to orthodox science HE pointed out how infections
take place. Bechamp and C. Bernard pointed out the importance of inner
constitutional terrain in these processes! After years of calming that the
microorganisms are the "cause" of infection Pasteur stated on his death bed
that the microorganisms are nothing - the terrain is everything. The ghost
of Bechamp must have visited his bedside! In my opinion the entire subject
of virology heralds the return to A. Bechamp's hypothesis brought up to
date. The debate between polymorphism and monomorphism is not the essential
point (although it is interesting). The major point is the fact the
microorganism and viral proteins have a positive or negative effect
depending on the nature of the inner terrain.

Life itself is symbiotic. "We" are actually a collection of various life
forms that live within us. Bechamp seemed to understand this. His idea that
their are certain "proteins" that are inherent to our cells have either a
positive or negative affect on our health depending on the state of the
internal terrain must be investigated more seriously by virologists. The
effects of constitutional terrain and environmental factors must be
investigated much more closely. When these fields are combined with
Hahnemann's teachings on the miasms and suppression we may come closer to
understanding the mechanisms behind these phenomena. Hahnemann opined that
Asiatic cholera was caused by microorganisms in clear terms. Some of the
"anti germ" camp don't seem to understand that Hahnemann is the true
founder of modern epidemiology. He observed the actions of mites, bacteria,
fungi and viruses in his patients. Not only this, he developed a method to
prevent, abort and treat these diseases! These method need to be brought up
to date.

Here is the homoeopathic method for studying collective diseases like
the acute, half acute and chronic miasms. This method can also be used to
study traumas, endemic nutritional disorders, group poisoning;
environmentally induced disorders and other collective states. Study the
aetiological constellation closely so the causal factors can be understood
and removed; investigate essential nature of the targeted collective
disease; record its signs and symptoms as seen in a homogenous group of
patients; select the characteristic symptoms of the target disease; study
these symptoms in the repertory and materia medica; select a group similar
genus remedies that reflect the group picture; make and prove nosodes of
the target diseases; test these remedies in clinical trials on the target
disease; record results and clinical confirmations; record any new
medicinal symptoms brought out on patients being treated; prove new
potential remedies with the target disease in mind. That is the modus
operandi.

This collective study AIDS is what is really lacking in homoeopathic
treatment. We are also going to have to study the nature of the
opportunistic infections this syndrome invovles. As long as every case is
treated only by the individual method we will never know the complete
picture of this collective disease. We will never really know the extent of
its mental, general and physical characteristics nor will the details of
the symptoms of all its stages. As long as we don't understand its group
anamnesis we will never find its true genus remedies that have the
potential to remove the complete miasma. Until we know its specific genus
remedies treatment will not be consistent nor very confirmable by our
peers. The collection of the large group anamnesis and the repertorization
of the collective signs and symptoms is MUCH more important than fighting
over the so-called single cause of the disease! My advise to one and all is
less close minded talk and more open minded work.

Simila Minimus
Sincerely, David Little

Hi David,

I agree to all you say below, but I would like to put a little more
stress on something:

*Very few scientists, virologists or whatever (if any at all)* think
or propandagize that the virus, bacterium etc. is the *sole* cause of
any disease. They all agree that after exposure to a pathogen, *some*
people get infected, *some* do not. The also agree that of the
infected *some* people get ill, very ill, die of it and *some* do not.

Even Louis Pasteur, towards the end of his life, said: "The germ is
nothing, the terrain is everything".

No tropical week grows in the arctis and vice versa. The problem is
that beforehand one does not know who will become a victim and who
will not. Lifestyle, nutrition, homeopathic constitutional care etc.
are definitely good to lessen the danger of bad results of exposure to
pathogens - but there are too many unknowns.

In a recent discussion on the German list, one poster challenged the
people who do not believe in virus or bacteria causing the disease, to
infect themselves with a pure culture of those pathogens, and see what
happens.

I do wonder whether any of the people who deny the pathogenicity of
the HIV Virus and thus - I should think - the danger of
transmission, would tell their teenage homosexual son it is ok to have
anal intercourse with a HIV positive partner.

Regards

Luise


On Mon, 22 May 2006, David Little wrote:

>
>
> Hello all,
>
> When debates arise about the role of viruses in disease persons tend to
> fall into two camps, i.e. the rigid for or against position. One side says
> "viruses are the sole cause of this disease" and other says "viruses have
> nothing to with this disease". Each side accuses the other of not only being
> wrong but also immoral! Such debates often go around in circles and usually
> no new ground is broken. I am going to attempt to turn the soil and look at
> the under lying terrain.
>
> Hippocrates taught that natural disease is caused by an aetiological
> constellation of factors not one single cause. He also noted that the one
> unifying factor in all this is the human constitution (nature) and its
> internal terrain (state) and how it is affected by environment factors
> (nurture). The constitution, temperament, predisposition, inner terrain
> and vitality are a primary factors because they control the susceptibility
> and reaction to infection. Any external factors that lead to the decline in
> the healthy terrain and weaken the vitality are part of the process of
> infection. Emotional stress, nutritional deficiencies, toxins, poisons,
> drugs, suppression, etc., play an important role in susceptibility and inner
> terrain changes. The deranged inner terrain has a great effect on the
> virulency of infections agents and degree of pathology they produce. Some
> persons are quite healthy yet they are carrying around microorganisms that
> may kill another person. Why is this?
>
> What is the differences in these cases? Why is one person relatively
> healthy and the other dying? The answer is found in within the constitution
> and temperament along with predisposition and environmental factors. Antonie
> Bechamp (1816-1908) was a contemporary of L. Pasteur. In fact Pasteur got
> many of his ideas from Bechamp. Bechamp taught that there are "microzymes"
> that were tiny proteins that are primary builders of living cells. He stated
> that these proteins were capable of "polymorphism" in which they mutate into
> healthy or unhealthy "zymes" depending on the nature of the inner terrain and
> attendant circumstances. Although all the details of Bechamp's hypothesis
> may not be correct there is much truth in his observations. The essence of
> what Bechamp was pointing out is that the positive and negative activities of
> bacteria, fungi and viruses depend greatly the nature of the inner
> constitutional terrain! His description of the "zymes" reminds one of some of
> the cutting edge ideas of virology today.
>
> Changes in the constitutional terrain can take place depending on a number
> of interdependent factors. Many of the "anti-germ theorist" also miss this
> message. They see one factor or another as causative, and therefore, some say
> its a particular toxin and poisons others say it is caused by nutritional
> deficiencies, etc., etc. The anti-germ theorist says the causes are
> "everything but germs" and and the pro-germ theorist are saying it is
> "nothing but germs". Few persons are speaking about the number 1 conditioning
> factors in this equation, that is, the condition of the constitution,
> temperament, inner terrain and environmental factors and how these factors
> shape the activity of microorganisms.
>
> Hahnemann taught that miasms were acute, half acute and chronic infections
> and their sequels. Hahnemann also taught that the number 1 conditioning
> factor in the symptoms produced by these miasms is the constitution,
> temperament and predisposition. The suppression of infections so greatly
> alters the inner terrain that it increases their disease causing potential
> logarithmically. Hahnemann also pointed out that the miasms could also be
> inherited as part of the symptoms of the innate constitution. He noted that
> over the centuries infectious diseases has mutated greatly and increase in
> virulency. This is all part of the decline of man and woman and diseases of
> modern civilization.
>
> Over the centuries the suppression of natural miasms like psora, sycosis,
> tuberculosis, syphilis, hepatitis BCD, etc., and artificial miasms produced
> by vaccination and immunization, has caused great transformations in the
> inner terrain of the human constitution. The decline of the inner terrain and
> immunity corresponds with the mutation and increased virulency of
> microorganisms. The factors of constitution, temperament, predisposition,
> inherited miasms, acquired miasms, suppression and drugging must be taken
> into account when studying the appearance of new states like AIDS. What is
> the role of suppressed psora, sycosis, TB, syphilis, hepatitis and the
> increase in vaccinations got to do with AIDS like states?
>
> Is the HIV factor in some cases of AIDS signal a return to investigating
> Bechamp's idea of zymes? Are there certain proteins (viruses?) that may play
> a positive or neutral role in a healthy terrain that are becoming increasing
> pathological in terrains disrupted by increased mental stress; more
> devitalized, chemicalized, radiation exposed, genetically modified foods;
> increased in environmental pollutants; increased immunizations; and the
> continuous suppression of infections? Is HIV a terrain maker of this decline
> in some AIDS cases? Does it play a pathological role in the rightly disposed
> terrain? Does such a terrain maker get "transmitted" to a similarly deranged
> internal terrain? Everyone knows the HIV/AIDS cases don't die from HIV. They
> die from a host of opportunistic infections and previously documented miasms
> that thrive in the AIDS terrain. All of these miasms seem to come together as
> if the miasms are layering up to more complex new heights!
>
> I think it is time to look at the bigger picture related to the
> constitution, temperament, inner terrain and the layering of miasms,
> suppression and drugs. On top of this one must look at environmental
> degraded, climate change and toxins, poisons and chemicals. Also don't forget
> the stress of modern life, the breakdown of extended families; and the decay
> of social responsibility and behavior. I do not see the bigger picture on the
> anti or pro virology websites. To think that most virologists are an evil
> group of persons who are part of a massive conspiracy to trick the world
> solely to gain money, power and control is too extreme. To think that all
> alternative views originate with quacks, pseudo scientists and the
> alternative, new age "nut cases" is too extreme. There must be a third way
> that does not fall into these extremes.
>
> The virologist are working in a field that still poses a number of
> unanswered questions, and many of their ideas cannot be called more than a
> hypothesis at this time. This is a relatively new area of research that does
> not fall into the simple boxes that the epidemiologist are more used to like
> animal parasites, bacteria and fungi. There are still "holes" in their
> theories and detection methods. Nevertheless, they are massing a large amount
> of data that cannot be debunked totally by any means! There certain is
> "something" going one here! The anti camp spends most of its time stretching
> the "holes" in the reductionist, mechanist view of subject but don't really
> offer anything more than a few more one-sided causes, which also posses their
> own "holes" and don't fit all the facts. Few are filling in any of the blank
> spaces in a positive manner.
>
> L. Pasteur is looked on as the man who made the subject of infection
> scientific. According to orthodox science HE pointed out how infections take
> place. Bechamp and C. Bernard pointed out the importance of inner
> constitutional terrain in these processes! After years of calming that the
> microorganisms are the "cause" of infection Pasteur stated on his death bed
> that the microorganisms are nothing - the terrain is everything. The ghost of
> Bechamp must have visited his bedside! In my opinion the entire subject of
> virology heralds the return to A. Bechamp's hypothesis brought up to date.
> The debate between polymorphism and monomorphism is not the essential point
> (although it is interesting). The major point is the fact the microorganism
> and viral proteins have a positive or negative effect depending on the nature
> of the inner terrain.
>
> Life itself is symbiotic. "We" are actually a collection of various life
> forms that live within us. Bechamp seemed to understand this. His idea that
> their are certain "proteins" that are inherent to our cells have either a
> positive or negative affect on our health depending on the state of the
> internal terrain must be investigated more seriously by virologists. The
> effects of constitutional terrain and environmental factors must be
> investigated much more closely. When these fields are combined with
> Hahnemann's teachings on the miasms and suppression we may come closer to
> understanding the mechanisms behind these phenomena. Hahnemann opined that
> Asiatic cholera was caused by microorganisms in clear terms. Some of the
> "anti germ" camp don't seem to understand that Hahnemann is the true founder
> of modern epidemiology. He observed the actions of mites, bacteria, fungi and
> viruses in his patients. Not only this, he developed a method to prevent,
> abort and treat these diseases! These method need to be brought up to date.
>
> Here is the homoeopathic method for studying collective diseases like the
> acute, half acute and chronic miasms. This method can also be used to study
> traumas, endemic nutritional disorders, group poisoning; environmentally
> induced disorders and other collective states. Study the aetiological
> constellation closely so the causal factors can be understood and removed;
> investigate essential nature of the targeted collective disease; record its
> signs and symptoms as seen in a homogenous group of patients; select the
> characteristic symptoms of the target disease; study these symptoms in the
> repertory and materia medica; select a group similar genus remedies that
> reflect the group picture; make and prove nosodes of the target diseases;
> test these remedies in clinical trials on the target disease; record results
> and clinical confirmations; record any new medicinal symptoms brought out on
> patients being treated; prove new potential remedies with the target disease
> in mind. That is the modus operandi.
>
> This collective study AIDS is what is really lacking in homoeopathic
> treatment. We are also going to have to study the nature of the opportunistic
> infections this syndrome invovles. As long as every case is treated only by
> the individual method we will never know the complete picture of this
> collective disease. We will never really know the extent of its mental,
> general and physical characteristics nor will the details of the symptoms of
> all its stages. As long as we don't understand its group anamnesis we will
> never find its true genus remedies that have the potential to remove the
> complete miasma. Until we know its specific genus remedies treatment will not
> be consistent nor very confirmable by our peers. The collection of the large
> group anamnesis and the repertorization of the collective signs and symptoms
> is MUCH more important than fighting over the so-called single cause of the
> disease! My advise to one and all is less close minded talk and more open
> minded work.
>
> Simila Minimus
> Sincerely, David Little
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Luise Kunkle" <sem-pa (AT) bar-do (DOT) net>
To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [H] Miasms and Terrain 1


>
> Hi David,
>
> I agree to all you say below, but I would like to put a little more stress
> on something:

<snip>

Lifestyle, nutrition, homeopathic constitutional care etc.
> are definitely good to lessen the danger of bad results of exposure to
> pathogens - but there are too many unknowns.
>
<snip >

> I do wonder whether any of the people who deny the pathogenicity of the
> HIV Virus and thus - I should think - the danger of transmission, would
> tell their teenage homosexual son it is ok to have anal intercourse with a
> HIV positive partner.

Luise,

#### I find this last statement interesting! Would you not consider the
mere fact of homosexuality as part of chronic disease??? I am not putting
down homosexuality! I have a homosexual son with AIDS, who became infected
on his very first sexual encounter. I was not suprised of such quick
infection! All his life he had all kinds of problems... born with a
testicle missing, repeated cases of Pneumonia as an infant, susceptibility
to every cold, flu, etc., most of his life and vaccinated repeatedly as his
vaccination records were being lost over and over again! When he told me of
his homosexuality, the only thing I said to him was: "Please be careful!
your immune system has always been very compromised"! Little did I know
even then he was already infected.

So, IMO, the mere fact of homosexuality is a deviation from true health and
in and of itself, the open door of susceptibility to infection with HIV
virus.

Magda Aguila
Aquiline
Animal Nutrition and
Homeopathic Consultations
Ask me about Juice Plus
http://www.juiceplus.com/+ma21937

After & above a lethal dose of a micro-organism all the funda on
immunity & terrain breaks down so pasteur & bechamp both are to be
considered equally. No one is big or no one is small ...I mean their
theories on infection & immunology have equal importance in todays
context of what we know about diseases & health...

Somenath

On 5/22/06, Luise Kunkle <sem-pa (AT) bar-do (DOT) net> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> I agree to all you say below, but I would like to put a little more
> stress on something:
>
> *Very few scientists, virologists or whatever (if any at all)* think
> or propandagize that the virus, bacterium etc. is the *sole* cause of
> any disease. They all agree that after exposure to a pathogen, *some*
> people get infected, *some* do not. The also agree that of the
> infected *some* people get ill, very ill, die of it and *some* do not.
>
> Even Louis Pasteur, towards the end of his life, said: "The germ is
> nothing, the terrain is everything".
>
> No tropical week grows in the arctis and vice versa. The problem is
> that beforehand one does not know who will become a victim and who
> will not. Lifestyle, nutrition, homeopathic constitutional care etc.
> are definitely good to lessen the danger of bad results of exposure to
> pathogens - but there are too many unknowns.
>
> In a recent discussion on the German list, one poster challenged the
> people who do not believe in virus or bacteria causing the disease, to
> infect themselves with a pure culture of those pathogens, and see what
> happens.
>
> I do wonder whether any of the people who deny the pathogenicity of
> the HIV Virus and thus - I should think - the danger of
> transmission, would tell their teenage homosexual son it is ok to have
> anal intercourse with a HIV positive partner.
>
> Regards
>
> Luise
>
>
> On Mon, 22 May 2006, David Little wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > When debates arise about the role of viruses in disease persons tend to
> > fall into two camps, i.e. the rigid for or against position. One side says
> > "viruses are the sole cause of this disease" and other says "viruses have
> > nothing to with this disease". Each side accuses the other of not only
> being
> > wrong but also immoral! Such debates often go around in circles and
> usually
> > no new ground is broken. I am going to attempt to turn the soil and look
> at
> > the under lying terrain.
> >
> > Hippocrates taught that natural disease is caused by an aetiological
> > constellation of factors not one single cause. He also noted that the one
> > unifying factor in all this is the human constitution (nature) and its
> > internal terrain (state) and how it is affected by environment factors
> > (nurture). The constitution, temperament, predisposition, inner terrain
> > and vitality are a primary factors because they control the susceptibility
> > and reaction to infection. Any external factors that lead to the decline
> in
> > the healthy terrain and weaken the vitality are part of the process of
> > infection. Emotional stress, nutritional deficiencies, toxins, poisons,
> > drugs, suppression, etc., play an important role in susceptibility and
> inner
> > terrain changes. The deranged inner terrain has a great effect on the
> > virulency of infections agents and degree of pathology they produce. Some
> > persons are quite healthy yet they are carrying around microorganisms that
> > may kill another person. Why is this?
> >
> > What is the differences in these cases? Why is one person relatively
> > healthy and the other dying? The answer is found in within the
> constitution
> > and temperament along with predisposition and environmental factors.
> Antonie
> > Bechamp (1816-1908) was a contemporary of L. Pasteur. In fact Pasteur got
> > many of his ideas from Bechamp. Bechamp taught that there are "microzymes"
> > that were tiny proteins that are primary builders of living cells. He
> stated
> > that these proteins were capable of "polymorphism" in which they mutate
> into
> > healthy or unhealthy "zymes" depending on the nature of the inner terrain
> and
> > attendant circumstances. Although all the details of Bechamp's hypothesis
> > may not be correct there is much truth in his observations. The essence of
> > what Bechamp was pointing out is that the positive and negative activities
> of
> > bacteria, fungi and viruses depend greatly the nature of the inner
> > constitutional terrain! His description of the "zymes" reminds one of some
> of
> > the cutting edge ideas of virology today.
> >
> > Changes in the constitutional terrain can take place depending on a
> number
> > of interdependent factors. Many of the "anti-germ theorist" also miss this
> > message. They see one factor or another as causative, and therefore, some
> say
> > its a particular toxin and poisons others say it is caused by nutritional
> > deficiencies, etc., etc. The anti-germ theorist says the causes are
> > "everything but germs" and and the pro-germ theorist are saying it is
> > "nothing but germs". Few persons are speaking about the number 1
> conditioning
> > factors in this equation, that is, the condition of the constitution,
> > temperament, inner terrain and environmental factors and how these factors
> > shape the activity of microorganisms.
> >
> > Hahnemann taught that miasms were acute, half acute and chronic
> infections
> > and their sequels. Hahnemann also taught that the number 1 conditioning
> > factor in the symptoms produced by these miasms is the constitution,
> > temperament and predisposition. The suppression of infections so greatly
> > alters the inner terrain that it increases their disease causing potential
> > logarithmically. Hahnemann also pointed out that the miasms could also be
> > inherited as part of the symptoms of the innate constitution. He noted
> that
> > over the centuries infectious diseases has mutated greatly and increase in
> > virulency. This is all part of the decline of man and woman and diseases
> of
> > modern civilization.
> >
> > Over the centuries the suppression of natural miasms like psora,
> sycosis,
> > tuberculosis, syphilis, hepatitis BCD, etc., and artificial miasms
> produced
> > by vaccination and immunization, has caused great transformations in the
> > inner terrain of the human constitution. The decline of the inner terrain
> and
> > immunity corresponds with the mutation and increased virulency of
> > microorganisms. The factors of constitution, temperament, predisposition,
> > inherited miasms, acquired miasms, suppression and drugging must be taken
> > into account when studying the appearance of new states like AIDS. What is
> > the role of suppressed psora, sycosis, TB, syphilis, hepatitis and the
> > increase in vaccinations got to do with AIDS like states?
> >
> > Is the HIV factor in some cases of AIDS signal a return to investigating
> > Bechamp's idea of zymes? Are there certain proteins (viruses?) that may
> play
> > a positive or neutral role in a healthy terrain that are becoming
> increasing
> > pathological in terrains disrupted by increased mental stress; more
> > devitalized, chemicalized, radiation exposed, genetically modified foods;
> > increased in environmental pollutants; increased immunizations; and the
> > continuous suppression of infections? Is HIV a terrain maker of this
> decline
> > in some AIDS cases? Does it play a pathological role in the rightly
> disposed
> > terrain? Does such a terrain maker get "transmitted" to a similarly
> deranged
> > internal terrain? Everyone knows the HIV/AIDS cases don't die from HIV.
> They
> > die from a host of opportunistic infections and previously documented
> miasms
> > that thrive in the AIDS terrain. All of these miasms seem to come together
> as
> > if the miasms are layering up to more complex new heights!
> >
> > I think it is time to look at the bigger picture related to the
> > constitution, temperament, inner terrain and the layering of miasms,
> > suppression and drugs. On top of this one must look at environmental
> > degraded, climate change and toxins, poisons and chemicals. Also don't
> forget
> > the stress of modern life, the breakdown of extended families; and the
> decay
> > of social responsibility and behavior. I do not see the bigger picture on
> the
> > anti or pro virology websites. To think that most virologists are an evil
> > group of persons who are part of a massive conspiracy to trick the world
> > solely to gain money, power and control is too extreme. To think that all
> > alternative views originate with quacks, pseudo scientists and the
> > alternative, new age "nut cases" is too extreme. There must be a third way
> > that does not fall into these extremes.
> >
> > The virologist are working in a field that still poses a number of
> > unanswered questions, and many of their ideas cannot be called more than a
> > hypothesis at this time. This is a relatively new area of research that
> does
> > not fall into the simple boxes that the epidemiologist are more used to
> like
> > animal parasites, bacteria and fungi. There are still "holes" in their
> > theories and detection methods. Nevertheless, they are massing a large
> amount
> > of data that cannot be debunked totally by any means! There certain is
> > "something" going one here! The anti camp spends most of its time
> stretching
> > the "holes" in the reductionist, mechanist view of subject but don't
> really
> > offer anything more than a few more one-sided causes, which also posses
> their
> > own "holes" and don't fit all the facts. Few are filling in any of the
> blank
> > spaces in a positive manner.
> >
> > L. Pasteur is looked on as the man who made the subject of infection
> > scientific. According to orthodox science HE pointed out how infections
> take
> > place. Bechamp and C. Bernard pointed out the importance of inner
> > constitutional terrain in these processes! After years of calming that the
> > microorganisms are the "cause" of infection Pasteur stated on his death
> bed
> > that the microorganisms are nothing - the terrain is everything. The ghost
> of
> > Bechamp must have visited his bedside! In my opinion the entire subject of
> > virology heralds the return to A. Bechamp's hypothesis brought up to date.
> > The debate between polymorphism and monomorphism is not the essential
> point
> > (although it is interesting). The major point is the fact the
> microorganism
> > and viral proteins have a positive or negative effect depending on the
> nature
> > of the inner terrain.
> >
> > Life itself is symbiotic. "We" are actually a collection of various life
> > forms that live within us. Bechamp seemed to understand this. His idea
> that
> > their are certain "proteins" that are inherent to our cells have either a
> > positive or negative affect on our health depending on the state of the
> > internal terrain must be investigated more seriously by virologists. The
> > effects of constitutional terrain and environmental factors must be
> > investigated much more closely. When these fields are combined with
> > Hahnemann's teachings on the miasms and suppression we may come closer to
> > understanding the mechanisms behind these phenomena. Hahnemann opined that
> > Asiatic cholera was caused by microorganisms in clear terms. Some of the
> > "anti germ" camp don't seem to understand that Hahnemann is the true
> founder
> > of modern epidemiology. He observed the actions of mites, bacteria, fungi
> and
> > viruses in his patients. Not only this, he developed a method to prevent,
> > abort and treat these diseases! These method need to be brought up to
> date.
> >
> > Here is the homoeopathic method for studying collective diseases like
> the
> > acute, half acute and chronic miasms. This method can also be used to
> study
> > traumas, endemic nutritional disorders, group poisoning; environmentally
> > induced disorders and other collective states. Study the aetiological
> > constellation closely so the causal factors can be understood and removed;
> > investigate essential nature of the targeted collective disease; record
> its
> > signs and symptoms as seen in a homogenous group of patients; select the
> > characteristic symptoms of the target disease; study these symptoms in the
> > repertory and materia medica; select a group similar genus remedies that
> > reflect the group picture; make and prove nosodes of the target diseases;
> > test these remedies in clinical trials on the target disease; record
> results
> > and clinical confirmations; record any new medicinal symptoms brought out
> on
> > patients being treated; prove new potential remedies with the target
> disease
> > in mind. That is the modus operandi.
> >
> > This collective study AIDS is what is really lacking in homoeopathic
> > treatment. We are also going to have to study the nature of the
> opportunistic
> > infections this syndrome invovles. As long as every case is treated only
> by
> > the individual method we will never know the complete picture of this
> > collective disease. We will never really know the extent of its mental,
> > general and physical characteristics nor will the details of the symptoms
> of
> > all its stages. As long as we don't understand its group anamnesis we will
> > never find its true genus remedies that have the potential to remove the
> > complete miasma. Until we know its specific genus remedies treatment will
> not
> > be consistent nor very confirmable by our peers. The collection of the
> large
> > group anamnesis and the repertorization of the collective signs and
> symptoms
> > is MUCH more important than fighting over the so-called single cause of
> the
> > disease! My advise to one and all is less close minded talk and more open
> > minded work.
> >
> > Simila Minimus
> > Sincerely, David Little
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >