Sodium Ascorbate Powder OR Ascorbic Acid (none of the other types - NO
calcium ascorbate or other mineral ascorbates) (
Ascorbic Acid for those of you more alkaline (if you know your pH of your
body - can test your saliva and urine and if above 6.4, use ascorbic acid)
(PS Ascorbic Acid can also help to bring your pH down and make you less
alkaline)
Sodium Ascorbate for those of you who are more acidic (if you know your pH
of your body - can test your saliva & urine and if below 6.4, use sodium
ascorbate). Sodium ascorbate is buffered with Bicarb. Also if you have a
hard time tolerating the Ascorbic Acid (stomach discomfort), use Sodium
Ascorbate. (if you are EXTREMELY acidic - and many are - you probably
won't even absorb Vitamin C until you become less acidic and that is
another story how to do that)

We DO NOT synthesize Vitamin C in our own bodies as most animals do! We
are genetically lacking an enzyme (most of us - some people may have it and
those are the ones who live longer and seem to be able to do anything to
their bodies - we don't know). Dogs and cats don't synthesize much either
and so you see them greatly wounded by vaccination without ability to recover.

That is why this is needed and really shouldn't be thought of as a vitamin.
IT IS A MAJOR NUTRIENT that we are lacking and can't synthesize. I'll
tell you more about that.

I have found a great book which I will share about.

Here is info on dosage and source to buy (not usually available in health
food stores).


IN ILLNESS - You or your child take it in increasing doses until you start
to get loose bowel movements (or the baby does if you are breastfeeding),
then you know you have reached your limit. Then you back off a bit. You
need to take in 3 or so doses a day to keep your stores up. Start with the
maintaining dose below and work your way up until you reach bowel tolerance
and then back off and maintain that.

Also if want to give to the baby that you are nursing, express some
breastmilk, dissolve the vitamin C. Using a plastic dropper, drip it into
the inside of her cheek until all in, or get it into her as she breastfeeds
by inserting the dropper without breaking her "seal" - not so easy!!!

Can give yourself and baby gets by breastmilk and/or give to your baby.

If you are quite healthy, take it daily to keep your stores up, in a
maintenance dose as below.

MAINTENANCE DOSES
FOR AN ADULT probably 3,000-5,000 mg per day (divided in 2 or 3 doses - so
that would be 1,000 - 1500 mg three times a day or so)

FOR A CHILD - Needs to be spread out thru day as goes from body in 4 hours
or so.
1 kg is 2.2 pounds........... so divide the babies pounds by 2.2 and that
will give you kilos and then multiply X's 200-375 mg of Sodium Ascorbate
powder

Dosage rate = between 200 - 375 mg per kg of body weight over waking
hours, actual dose depends on individual.

So if your child weighs 4 kilos, one gram vitamin C = 1,000 mgs (
one-quarter of a level tsp) should be split into several doses, and given
from morning to evening....

One good pinch equals 250 mgs, if you want to use the vague method.

******
SOURCES
In UK I get from Health Plus http://www.healthplus.co.uk

In US http://www.bronsononline.com/
and then find VITAMIN C CRYSTALS (NON-ACIDIC) Product #50

in Australia - Melrose was suggested to me
http://www.naturalcity.com.au/product.aspx?id=2333

or google +sodium+ascorbate+australia


Articles & info

http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm
TITRATING TO BOWEL TOLERANCE

The maximum relief of symptoms which can be expected with oral doses of
ascorbic acid is obtained at a point just short of the amount which
produces diarrhea. The amount and the timing of the doses are usually
sensed by the patient. The physician should not try to regulate exactly the
amount and timing of these doses because the optimally effective dose will
often change from dose to dose. Patients are instructed on the general
principles of determining doses and given estimates of the reasonable
starting amounts and timing of these doses. I have named this process of
the patient determining the optimum dose, TITRATING TO BOWEL TOLERANCE. The
patient tries to TITRATE between that amount which begins to make him feel
better and that amount which almost but not quite causes diarrhea.


http://www.orthomed.com/klenner.htm


Journal of Applied Nutrition Vol. 23, No's 3 & 4, Winter 1971
Observations On the Dose and Administration of Ascorbic Acid When Employed
Beyond the Range Of A Vitamin In Human Pathology
Frederick R. Klenner, M.D., F.C.C.P.

*********
"How Much Is Too Much?
Dr. Robert Cathcart believes the ideal intake for any individual is the
highest level they can tolerate without loose bowels. On the basis of his
experience with 11,000 patients over 14 years this bowel tolerance level
may be 10 to 15 grams in a healthy person, 30 to 60 grams in a person with
a cold, and over 199 grams per day in a person with a serious infectious
illness. During an infectious illness the best clinical results have been
achieved by maintaining high vitamin C levels in the blood through 3 or
more grams every four hours.

Fortunately, vitamin C is one of the least toxic substances known to man.
Four studies gave 10 grams of vitamin C to over 3000 patients without a
single reported incidence of toxicity. Other than the bowels there has not
been one single case of toxicity resulting from taking vitamin C
supplements, despite unfounded reports of potential risk for kidney stones,
raising blood uric acid levels, or 'rebound' scurvy. It is unlikely that
any vitamin has been tested to such an extent for toxicity and it is safe
to assume that supplemental levels of at least 10 grams a day, or up to
bowel tolerance, are completely safe. "

(again this may need to be sodium ascorbate form)

***********
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/mega_1_1.html#HOLFORD

VITAMIN C:

HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

By Patrick Holford

Most Animals Produce The Equivalent Of 3 to 15 Grams of Vitamin C Every Day


Vitamin C isn't a vitamin at all. It isn't a necessary component of diet,
at least for all mammals with the exception of guinea pigs, fruit eating
bats, the red vented bulbul bird and primates - which includes us. All
other species make their own.

This they do by converting glucuronic acid derived from glucose into
ascorbic acid (C6H8O6). Three enzymes are required to make this conversion.
One of these enzymes, or part of the enzyme system, is missing in primates.
Irwin Stone proposed, in 1965, that a negative mutation may have occurred
in these species so as to lose the ability to produce vitamin C. In
primates this is thought to have occurred in the region of 25 million years
ago.

Mutations can and frequently do occur in nature. Only those that put a
species at advantage at the time tend to become dominant. Unfortunately,
reversing such mutations is highly unlikely to occur. Unlike other
vitamins, vitamin C is required in large amounts which could only be
supplied by a tropical diet high in fruit and other vegetation. if
sufficient vitamin C could be obtained from such a diet the quantity of
glucose normally used to synthesize vitamin C could be channeled towards
energy production. This could conceivably have been an advantage for
primates or other species.

This advantage may have come at a price. Dr. Jungblut, an early pioneer of
vitamin C therapy in the 1930's, discovered that only us primates and
guinea pigs were susceptible to scurvy as well as anaphylactic shock,
pulmonary tuberculosis, diptheritic intoxication, a poliomyelitis-like
viral infection and a viral form of leukemia. None of the vitamin C
synthesizing laboratory animals had susceptibility to these diseases. This
is perhaps one of the first observations that led to the idea that
susceptibility to viral infections could be a consequence of vitamin C
deficiency. Could humanity's history of disease - endemic infections,
plagues and more recently cancer and heart disease - be the result of our
inability to produce vitamin C and our inability to obtain it from the food
we eat?

Vitamin C produced per day by different animal species
(equivalent for 70 Kg Man)

Goat 2,280 - 13,300 mg
Rat 2,737 - 13,902 mg
Rabbit 1,547 - 15,820 mg
Cow 1,099 - 1,281 mg
Mouse 2,352 - 19,250 mg
Sheep 1,736 mg
Cat 336 - 2,800 mg



More than 50% of People Require Over 2,500 mg to Reach Maximum Absorption







Vitamin C is One of the Least Toxic Substances Known to Man

The fact that almost all species continue to make vitamin C suggests that
the amount of vitamin C generally available from diet is not enough for
optimum nutrition except in exceptional circumstances such as a tropical
environment. The chart above shows the average amount produced by each
animal, adjusted to an equivalent body weight for Man. Under normal
circumstances the daily amount produced, adjusted for comparison to a 70 kg
man, is somewhere between 3,000 mg and 15,000 mg, with an average of 5,400 mg.

Species of monkeys, such as the squirrel monkey, require an equivalent of
2,000 mg a day to maintain health and up to 1000 mg a day to maintain blood
levels found in the wild. Animals produce variable amounts depending on
their circumstances. Under conditions of stress or infection synthesis can
easily quadruple. Some primates appear to require up to 2,800 mg a day
equivalent to survive the long-term stresses of captivity, while guinea
pigs require 3,000 mg per day to recover from anesthesia.

What about us? While a mere 60 mg a day can prevent scurvy, the deficiency
disease first identified by Dr. James Lind in 1753, it would be illogical
to assume that this is the optimal dose. A survey of doctors in the US
found that those who were healthiest consumed at least 250 mg of vitamin C
per day. A recent survey has shown that a person's vitamin status is a good
predictor of their mortality risk. High blood vitamin C levels indicate a
low risk for cardiovascular disease and certain types of cancer and other
immune based diseases. Optimal intakes to reduce risk of such conditions
would appear to be at least 500 mg per day.
Expensive Urine?
But aren't you simply making expensive urine when you take large amounts of
supplements? Dr. Michael Colgan investigated this often made rebuttal. He
investigated how much vitamin C we use by giving increasing daily doses and
measuring excretion. "Only a quarter of our subjects reached their vitamin
C maximum at 1,500 mg a day. More than half required over 2,500 mg a day to
reach a level where their bodies could use no more. Four subjects did not
reach their maximum at 5,000 mg." Increasing vitamin C intake from 50 mg to
500 mg tends to double serum vitamin C levels. Increasing intake to 5,000
mg a day will double serum levels again. Expensive urine? Vitamin C
protects the bowel, kidneys and bladder on the way out. As Dr. Michael
Colgan points out the average victim of bowel or bladder cancer spends
$26,000 for treatment - mostly to no avail.

While it is valid to infer from this brief history of evolution, a
comparison with other species, and average excretion rates that optimal
vitamin C levels are probably above 1,000 mg with plenty of room for
individual variation,what about 'hard evidence'? What levels are required
to ensure maximum function of enzymes and body systems dependent on vitamin
C? A quick review of some of vitamin C's hundreds of biochemical roles will
help us here. Vitamin C is required for the synthesis of collagen. Our
intercellular glue that keeps skin, lungs, arteries, the digestive tract
and all organs intact. It is a potent anti-oxidant protecting against free
radicals, pollution, carcinogens, heavy metals, and other toxins. It is
strongly anti-viral and mildly anti-bacterial. Energy cannot be made in any
cell, brain or muscle without adequate vitamin C. The adrenal glands have a
high concentration of vitamin C which is essential for stress hormone
synthesis. Vitamin C is so central in so many chemical reactions in the
body that,without it, life is simply not possible.
Are Western Killer Diseases Symptoms of a Vitamin C Deficiency?
The immune system depends on having healthy immune cells and associate
molecules such as antibodies. Vitamin C is essential for both. Antibody
production increases on supplementing 1 gram of vitamin C. It is also
needed for interferon, complement, and prostaglandin production, and is
essential for the proper function of immune cells such as lymphocytes and
leukocytes. A recent study showed, in the test tube, that vitamin C can
even inactivate the HIV virus.

Thanks to the work of Linus Pauling and coworkers we know that 10 grams of
vitamin C doubles the life expectancy of cancer patients, and, in some
cases effects a complete cure. Its role is even more pivotal in
cardiovascular disease, which is now being postulated as the long-term
consequence of vitamin C deficiency. Just about every marker of
cardiovascular disease, arterial damage, high blood cholesterol levels, low
HDL levels, high levels of oxidized cholesterol, thick blood are all
improved by adequate vitamin C intake at levels up to 10 grams a day.
Vitamin C increases resistance to stress, lessens allergic reactions, helps
arthritic conditions, slows down the aging process and improves energy
production. Beneficial effects of vitamin C in human trials tend to
increase with the amount given up to, and above, 10 grams per day. On the
basis of research into vitamin C's effect on disease states it would appear
that an intake of somewhere between 1 and 10 grams may be optimal simply
for maintaining optimal function of the immune, endocrine and
cardiovascular system.
How Much Is Too Much?
Dr. Robert Cathcart believes the ideal intake for any individual is the
highest level they can tolerate without loose bowels. On the basis of his
experience with 11,000 patients over 14 years this bowel tolerance level
may be 10 to 15 grams in a healthy person, 30 to 60 grams in a person with
a cold, and over 199 grams per day in a person with a serious infectious
illness. During an infectious illness the best clinical results have been
achieved by maintaining high vitamin C levels in the blood through 3 or
more grams every four hours.

Fortunately, vitamin C is one of the least toxic substances known to man.
Four studies gave 10 grams of vitamin C to over 3000 patients without a
single reported incidence of toxicity. Other than the bowels there has not
been one single case of toxicity resulting from taking vitamin C
supplements, despite unfounded reports of potential risk for kidney stones,
raising blood uric acid levels, or 'rebound' scurvy. It is unlikely that
any vitamin has been tested to such an extent for toxicity and it is safe
to assume that supplemental levels of at least 10 grams a day, or up to
bowel tolerance, are completely safe.
WHAT IS OPTIMUM
Whichever way you look at it the figures come out in the same ballpark. The
optimum intake is likely to be in the region of 1,000 mg (1 gram) to 10,000
mg (10 grams) per day, If you are in the grips of cardiovascular disease,
an infectious or immune system disease, or cancer the ideal level may be
much higher. If you drink excessive amounts of alcohol, live in a polluted
city, have a stressful lifestyle, take drugs including aspirin, or smoke,
your optimal intake will again be raised. An intake of 200 to 300 mg of
vitamin C per day is required to raise the average smoker's vitamin C level
to that of a non-smoker. An intake of around 50 mg per cigarette probably
affords maximum protection.

Albert Szent Gyorgi, who isolated vitamin C in 1928, recommends 1 gram
daily. Dr. Michael Colgan takes 5 grams daily. Dr. Linus Pauling takes 10
to 18 grams daily. I take 5 grams daily on top of a diet rich in food
sources of vitamin C. The choice is yours.

***********
3000 mg Vitamin C

The Vitamin C Foundation recommends that every man, woman and child over
the age of 3 consume at least 3 g (3000 mg) vitamin C daily in order to
enjoy optimum health.

More during pregnancy (6000 mg), and much more during periods of disease
(20,000 to 300,000 mg).

RDI Source/Population
60-95 mg U.S. Recommended Intake
200 mg LPI & Levin/NIH Recommendation
3000 mg Foundation's daily recommendation
6000-12000 mg Levy's daily recommendation
6000-18000 mg Pauling's daily recommendation
6000-9000 mg Pregnancy
6000-18000 mg Heart Disease
14000-30000 mg Cancer
20000-300000 mg Cathcart/Levy Cure for Infectious Diseases

Comment

Our recommendation is more than 30 times what the United States
Government's National Academy of Sciences recommends (75-90 mg), and 15
times more than what the Linus Pauling Institute and the Levin group at the
National Institutes of Health recommend (200 mg).

Linus Pauling recommended 2 to 6 times the Foundation's vitamin C RDA (6000
to 18,000 mg vitamin C). Pauling wrote that his recommendation was based on
the large amounts of vitamin C animals make for themselves, and on the
amount humans must ingest orally to achieve similar levels.

Vitamin C author/expert Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD, recommends from 2 to 4
times our recommendation (6,000 to 12,000 mg daily)

Our recommendations are partly based on the work of Dr. Robert Cathcart,
III. Cathcart determined that the ability to tolerate oral intakes of the
vitamin vary between 4 and 16 g daily during ordinary poor health.
Cathcart's clinical experience demonstrates that virtually every human
being will tolerate 4 g vitamin C daily.

The Foundation recommends 1 g vitamin C for children based on their age, up
to the age of 3. One gram for one-year-olds, two grams for two-year-olds, etc.

Our recommended daily allowance may not prevent or resolve diseases related
to lack of vitamin C. For example, we believe that heart disease requires
from 6000 to 18,000 mg vitamin C, and that cancer may require 14,000 to
30,000 mg daily.

We do realize that if our recommendation were adopted by most people in the
world, there would be a grave shortage of the vitamin. (Perhaps this is one
reason that Government recommendations are so tiny?)

Owen R. Fonorow
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/faq.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

On May 4, 2006, at 2:27 AM, Sheri Nakken wrote:

> Sodium Ascorbate Powder OR Ascorbic Acid (none of the other types - NO
> calcium ascorbate or other mineral ascorbates) (
> Ascorbic Acid for those of you more alkaline (if you know your pH of
> your
> body - can test your saliva and urine and if above 6.4, use ascorbic
> acid)
> (PS Ascorbic Acid can also help to bring your pH down and make you less
> alkaline)

Just FWIW, when I got my spectacular result it was with ascorbic acid
(which was then I think the only type on the market), and I was indeed
alkaline (no longer!).

> Sodium Ascorbate for those of you who are more acidic (if you know
> your pH
> of your body - can test your saliva & urine and if below 6.4, use
> sodium
> ascorbate). Sodium ascorbate is buffered with Bicarb. Also if you
> have a
> hard time tolerating the Ascorbic Acid (stomach discomfort), use Sodium
> Ascorbate. (if you are EXTREMELY acidic - and many are - you probably
> won't even absorb Vitamin C until you become less acidic and that is
> another story how to do that)

You mean not sodium ascorbate either? Why would that be?
Shannon

>
> We DO NOT synthesize Vitamin C in our own bodies as most animals do!
> We
> are genetically lacking an enzyme (most of us - some people may have
> it and
> those are the ones who live longer and seem to be able to do anything
> to
> their bodies - we don't know). Dogs and cats don't synthesize much
> either
> and so you see them greatly wounde

At 06:47 AM 5/4/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>On May 4, 2006, at 2:27 AM, Sheri Nakken wrote:
>
>> Sodium Ascorbate Powder OR Ascorbic Acid (none of the other types - NO
>> calcium ascorbate or other mineral ascorbates) (
>> Ascorbic Acid for those of you more alkaline (if you know your pH of
>> your
>> body - can test your saliva and urine and if above 6.4, use ascorbic
>> acid)
>> (PS Ascorbic Acid can also help to bring your pH down and make you less
>> alkaline)
>
>Just FWIW, when I got my spectacular result it was with ascorbic acid
>(which was then I think the only type on the market), and I was indeed
>alkaline (no longer!).
>
>> Sodium Ascorbate for those of you who are more acidic (if you know
>> your pH
>> of your body - can test your saliva & urine and if below 6.4, use
>> sodium
>> ascorbate). Sodium ascorbate is buffered with Bicarb. Also if you
>> have a
>> hard time tolerating the Ascorbic Acid (stomach discomfort), use Sodium
>> Ascorbate. (if you are EXTREMELY acidic - and many are - you probably
>> won't even absorb Vitamin C until you become less acidic and that is
>> another story how to do that)
>
>You mean not sodium ascorbate either? Why would that be?
>Shannon

I don't know what your question means.
Sheri>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

I'm stunned at the high doses being recommended in some posts. Anything over 500mg a day is not really absorbed (in fact, it may be even lower than that) and is therefore excreted by the kidneys. You may say: that's fine, but it isn't. The strain on the kidneys to do that is immense and the added burden tremendous, considering all the toxins they have to deal with these days. Taking smaller doses of Vitamin C daily, for prophylactic reasons is great, but then again, why not eat 2 oranges? You've got 200mg there as well as the fibre and for most of us, a reasonable dose of C. (unless someone is a smoker).

I read somewhere that the worst time to take high doses of Vitamin C is while one is ill - whether mumps or a common cold which is when most people tend to load up on it, ironically. If you have a cold, larger doses of Vitamin C help bring up a lot of mucus which goes straight from the lungs, down the throat and through the digestive system to the kidneys - again, the kidneys are overwhelmed at a time when they should be at rest.

Now there is even some contention as to whether mega-doses of Vitamin C is shown to actually damage DNA. Also, mega-doses of anything will put other nutrients at risk via leeching in terms of absorption, and metabolism can suffer.

I gave up vitamins long ago after experiencing my first homeopathic remedy. My system just seems to be working a whole lot better. Witness that now it is being shown that Vitamin E can actually damage the heart, not protect it...the doses we thought were safe, may actually be too much.

Martha

Martha you are right but sometimes there are results which defy normal
reasoning like my protocols.

Somenath

On 5/4/06, tmrmartha <tmrmartha (AT) allstream (DOT) net> wrote:
> I'm stunned at the high doses being recommended in some posts. Anything
> over 500mg a day is not really absorbed (in fact, it may be even lower than
> that) and is therefore excreted by the kidneys. You may say: that's fine,
> but it isn't. The strain on the kidneys to do that is immense and the added
> burden tremendous, considering all the toxins they have to deal with these
> days. Taking smaller doses of Vitamin C daily, for prophylactic reasons is
> great, but then again, why not eat 2 oranges? You've got 200mg there as
> well as the fibre and for most of us, a reasonable dose of C. (unless
> someone is a smoker).
>
> I read somewhere that the worst time to take high doses of Vitamin C is
> while one is ill - whether mumps or a common cold which is when most people
> tend to load up on it, ironically. If you have a cold, larger doses of
> Vitamin C help bring up a lot of mucus which goes straight from the lungs,
> down the throat and through the digestive system to the kidneys - again, the
> kidneys are overwhelmed at a time when they should be at rest.
>
> Now there is even some contention as to whether mega-doses of Vitamin C is
> shown to actually damage DNA. Also, mega-doses of anything will put other
> nutrients at risk via leeching in terms of absorption, and metabolism can
> suffer.
>
> I gave up vitamins long ago after experiencing my first homeopathic remedy.
> My system just seems to be working a whole lot better. Witness that now it
> is being shown that Vitamin E can actually damage the heart, not protect
> it...the doses we thought were safe, may actually be too much.
>
> Martha
>

Hi Martha,
I also have heard some possible downsides to high vitamin C
intake--having to do with stressing the body's supply of co-factors, I
think? However--see below:

On May 4, 2006, at 11:48 AM, tmrmartha wrote:

> I'm stunned at the high doses being recommended in some posts.
> Anything over 500mg a day is not really absorbed (in fact, it may be
> even lower than that) and is therefore excreted by the kidneys.

What is your source for that? My own and family's experience seems to
contradict that... When I am "between remedies" (which is *often*) and
not taking any supplements, I get spontaneous bruising--always have, at
least since childhood. And as I've gotten older, also bleeding and
receding gums. Vitamin C prevents both of those--but only if I take
enough, which varies from 4,000 mg daily (if I'm otherwise not in too
bad shape) up to (most I've ever needed thus far) about 8,000 mg daily.

My mother has, for at least some decades, needed to take a full 10,000
mg every day, or else she gets swollen glands, illnesses, and feels
generally crummy.

Apparently we are absorbing it, because it is certainly having an
effect! At a cost? Perhaps; that I have wondered about, tho that cost
(if any) must be subtle and very long-term, it seems.... My son, when
*he* was "between remedies" and needing something, also bruises easily,
and in his case too, vitamin C removes the tendency; for him (age 10 at
the time) it took only 1,000 mg daily.

> You may say: that's fine, but it isn't. The strain on the kidneys to
> do that is immense and the added burden tremendous, considering all
> the toxins they have to deal with these days. Taking smaller doses of
> Vitamin C daily, for prophylactic reasons is great, but then again,
> why not eat 2 oranges?

That never worked for me or my mom or my son...

> You've got 200mg there as well as the fibre and for most of us, a
> reasonable dose of C. (unless someone is a smoker).
>
> I read somewhere that the worst time to take high doses of Vitamin C
> is while one is ill - whether mumps or a common cold

I've never heard that, and *certainly* never observed it. What reason
did you read?

> which is when most people tend to load up on it, ironically. If you
> have a cold, larger doses of Vitamin C help bring up a lot of mucus
> which goes straight from the lungs, down the throat and through the
> digestive system to the kidneys - again, the kidneys are overwhelmed
> at a time when they should be at rest.
>
> Now there is even some contention as to whether mega-doses of Vitamin
> C is shown to actually damage DNA. Also, mega-doses of anything will
> put other nutrients at risk via leeching in terms of absorption, and
> metabolism can suffer.

Now *that * is a concern I can appreciate... I've read that vitamin C
can deplete copper (tho have no reason to think I am
copper-deficient!), and taking large amounts of the acidic kind by
someone who is already over-acid, that would seem like a potential
problem. But one can try to balance those, and one *has* to weigh the
risks-vs-benefits--as I/we have done for years.
>
> I gave up vitamins long ago after experiencing my first homeopathic
> remedy. My system just seems to be working a whole lot better.

I agree! Most of us, once we've got "the remedy", will not need much
in the way of vitamins, herbs, etc. (depending on the individual, the
diet, the circumstances, etc...) My own experience has been that when
I don't need the things I've been taking, I just start to "forget"
them. Or look at them and just don't *feel* like taking them. Usually
tho, I just forget. Also, I know *why* I am taking everything that I
take, and when I don't need it, I don't take it. I am definitely in
agreement with you that "the remedy" is better than handfuls of pills.
But when "the remedy" is not known or not available, other measures can
stand in, to a degree.

> Witness that now it is being shown that Vitamin E can actually damage
> the heart, not protect it...

Apparently those were flawed studies, and used synthetic E, not
natural. Mixed tocopherols are best, and dl-alpha is to be avoided.

Studies can be weird... I read one that purported to show that vitamin
E did not help something-or-other--but the amounts cited were only
about 1/10 of a therapeutic dose... But that's a whole other topic!
Best,
Shannon

> the doses we thought were safe, may actually be too much.
>
> Martha
>

At 12:48 PM 5/4/2006 -0400, tmrmartha wrote:
>I'm stunned at the high doses being recommended in some posts. Anything
over 500mg a day is not really absorbed (in fact, it may be even lower than
that) and is therefore excreted by the kidneys.

That is just not accurate

>> You may say: that's fine, but it isn't. The strain on the kidneys to do
that is immense and the added burden tremendous, considering all the toxins
they have to deal with these days. Taking smaller doses of Vitamin C
daily, for prophylactic reasons is great, but then again, why not eat 2
oranges? You've got 200mg there as well as the fibre and for most of us, a
reasonable dose of C. (unless someone is a smoker).

I encourage you to read the research.

>
>I read somewhere that the worst time to take high doses of Vitamin C is
while one is ill - whether mumps or a common cold which is when most people
tend to load up on it, ironically. If you have a cold, larger doses of
Vitamin C help bring up a lot of mucus which goes straight from the lungs,
down the throat and through the digestive system to the kidneys - again,
the kidneys are overwhelmed at a time when they should be at rest.
>
That is just not accurate

>Now there is even some contention as to whether mega-doses of Vitamin C is
shown to actually damage DNA. Also, mega-doses of anything will put other
nutrients at risk via leeching in terms of absorption, and metabolism can
suffer.

Again, where is the proof of these statements? Allopathic anti-mineral,
anti-vitamin websites.
There is VAST research showing the safety and efficacy of Vitamin C. (ie.
Dr. Klenner, Dr. Cathcart, & Dr. Kaleokarinos to name a few)
And Dr. Thomas Levy in Colorado - incredible summary of it all - Vitamin C,
Infectious Diseases, and Toxins by Thomas E. Levy
more on this http://www.vaccination.org.uk/a/levy_h.html

and http://www.vaccination.org.uk/vaccines/pauling_f.html
http://www.vaccination.org.uk/vaccines/kalokerinos.html

http://www.doctoryourself.com/kidney2.html
Kidney Disease and Therapeutic Nutrition
" Vitamin C does not cause kidney problems; it prevents them"

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente...inC/index.html
Toxicity
A number of possible problems with very large doses of vitamin C have been
suggested, mainly based on in vitro experiments or isolated case reports,
including: genetic mutations, birth defects, cancer, atherosclerosis,
kidney stones, "rebound scurvy", increased oxidative stress, excess iron
absorption, vitamin B-12 deficiency, and erosion of dental enamel. However,
none of these adverse health effects have been confirmed, and there is no
reliable scientific evidence that large amounts of vitamin C (up to 10
grams/day in adults) are toxic or detrimental to health.

http://www.mercola.com/2001/jun/23/vitamin_c.htm
Dr. Mercola's Comment:
The media has attempted to place a negative spin on vitamin C. If you want
to understand why this is, please review the excellent article I posted
last year.
http://www.mercola.com/2001/feb/17/media_deception.htm
How the Media Deceives You About Health Issues

http://www.mercola.com/2001/jun/23/vitamin_c.htm
COMMENT FROM LINUS PAULING INSTITUTE:

Let us remember that this study is a test tube experiment. The study does
not describe biochemistry or biology, and its relevance to reactions
occurring in cells and tissues of the human body is unknown. Many reactions
of vitamin C occur in vitro (in the test tube) that will not and cannot
occur in vivo (in the living organism).

Why?

Because the physiological environment of the cell and the body contains
thousands of substances that also react with vitamin C and rancid fats thus
derailing the chemistry observed in a test tube system.

Rancid fats don't just wait around in vivo to bump into a vitamin C
molecule, but instead are very rapidly reduced to harmless "alcohols" by a
number of enzymes.

Thus, the reaction rate of rancid fats with these enzymes compared to the
reaction rate of the rancid fats with vitamin C is of crucial importance
and this was not measured in the Science study.

>From what we know from the study, incubations were done for two hours, an
eternity in biochemical terms. Enzymatic reactions as those indicated above
to reduce rancid fats to harmless alcohols that do not react with vitamin C
usually take a fraction of a second, not two hours!

It is interesting to note that vitamin C effectively inhibits the formation
of rancid fats in the first place. Thus, when your blood is exposed to
oxidizing conditions, vitamin C forms the first line of antioxidant
defense, and no lipid rancid fats are formed.

Rancid fats begin to form only after vitamin C has been exhausted. Thus, in
these experiments rancid fats and vitamin C did not exist simultaneously in
blood, and thus never had the opportunity to react with each other.

What's more, the Science study used a concentration of rancid fats which in
biochemical terms was "a ton." Studies have shown that, in blood, rancid
fats exist in concentrations which are 10,000-fold lower than what was used
in the Science experiment. Again, this casts serious doubt on the relevance
of these results for living organisms.

To conclude from this study that vitamin C causes cancer would be as
preposterous as to say that we have found a cure for cancer based on a
simple test tube experiment.

In fact, many animal studies and cell culture experiments have demonstrated
anticancer effects of vitamin C, and the vitamin has been used
therapeutically in human cancer patients with some apparent benefit.


***********************

After all, as I said, most animals synthesize our own - we and guinea pigs
are some of the few who don't anymore

This is one substance that should be known as a vital nutrient and not
called a vitamin. And 'the powers that be' what you to be afraid of it and
try to criminalize those who use it (just like homeopaths)

I encourage you to dig a little deeper instead of buying the line of allopathy
Sheri



References
http://www.orthomed.com/index.htm
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/
http://www.healing-arts.org/mehl-mad...ntravenous.htm

>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes
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Hi Shannon:

> On May 4, 2006, at 11:48 AM, tmrmartha wrote:
>> I'm stunned at the high doses being recommended in some posts. Anything
>> over 500mg a day is not really absorbed (in fact, it may be even lower
>> than that) and is therefore excreted by the kidneys.

Shannon said:
> What is your source for that?

Check out Mayo clinic's website for general medicine www.mayoclinic.com
....and for an alternative health source...say the mercola website.
www.mercola.com and play around with 'vitamin c' in the search sites. There
are thousands more websites, but these two are a good start on the
overdosing of Vitamin C and the repercussions to the kidneys.

Martha said:
>> I read somewhere that the worst time to take high doses of Vitamin C is
>> while one is ill - whether mumps or a common cold

Shannon said:
> I've never heard that, and *certainly* never observed it. What reason did
> you read?
>
I honestly can't remember where I read it - I just put it out there as a
cautionary note; but, I read it about 10 years ago and it certainly was
compelling. If I spent long enough at the computer, I could probably find
something to support it. So I'm not sure if it is even true, but I do
remember the source as being impressive. If it comes to me, I will
certainly post it.

Martha said:
Witness that now it is being shown that Vitamin E can actually damage
>> the heart, not protect it...

Shannon said:
> Apparently those were flawed studies, and used synthetic E, not natural.
> Mixed tocopherols are best, and dl-alpha is to be avoided.

Yes Shannon, I agree with what you wrote above. The studies were flawed,
but my sense was that even if the E was mixed tocopherols, the dose range
seemed to be in question. Is it necessary or even good to take beyond 1200
IUs. 400IUs are what they put into multi-vitamins and people often take 4
or 5 times recommended multi-vitamin dose if it's in a separate bottle.
They sell them in 1000 IU doses. Yet at that range, Vitamin E is a powerful
blood thinner and can be dangerous.

Actually vitamins were what drew me into homeopathy. I was so keen on them
for awhile, studying everything I could and yet my system was not getting
any better; my overall health was not improving. Homepathy was a wake up
call and I tossed the vitamins.

Anyhow, there is so much to question, isn't there? Every day, new evidence
for this or that comes up. I have been reading hundreds of books on
nutrition and health for the last 30 years and with all the changes and in
light of newer evidence for this or that cropping up, have found only
homeopathy to be the true constant. But that's just my story! :-)

Best wishes Shannon!
Martha

Sheri said:
>
> I encourage you to dig a little deeper instead of buying the line of
> allopathy
> Sheri
>
Hi Sheri:

I don't buy the line of allopathy at all. In fact, I'm very much against
conventional drug prescribing. But that doesn't mean that I buy into every
alternative practice either. Just because Vitamin C is great for you in
moderate doses, doesn't mean it is not harmful in larger doses. If you
think of the natural state of man, thousands of years ago, did it make sense
for the way our bodies have evolved, to take that concentration of a vitamin
into our system? Is it even feasible? Could anyone eat that many citrus
fruits? Homeopathy, we find, is based on laws that govern our biology -
there is no getting around the why or wherefore of our capacity to be
healthy - we have physiological limitations.

Broccolli is good for me, but I'm not a cow with four stomach chambers able
to break down much of those nutrients and fibre and I wouldn't eat 5 huge
bunches just to get a massive intake of Vitamin C and calcium. I have
limitations. And I truly believe that human beings are not meant to do a
number of things, such as: drink cow's milk, eat massive amounts of sugar
(amounts we consider negligible) and to take massive amounts of vitamins.

I'm just as skeptical about natural claims -- which often turn on a dime
year after year -- as I am about so-called 'modern' medicine. The only
thing I have no doubts about is homeopathy. I'm pretty rock-steady about
that.

That said, I'm not a professional; I'm was just contributing to the
conversation and my sense is that anything in excess should always be
questionned. I have a strong sense, from all my years of gleaning, that
multi-doses of vitamins may take their toll long-term.

Martha

At 01:57 PM 5/4/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>Sheri said:
>>
>> I encourage you to dig a little deeper instead of buying the line of
>> allopathy
>> Sheri
>>
>Hi Sheri:
>
>I don't buy the line of allopathy at all. In fact, I'm very much against
>conventional drug prescribing. But that doesn't mean that I buy into every
>alternative practice either.

Of course not. That's not what I said. Vitamin C use has been around much
longer than most alternative therapies.

Just because Vitamin C is great for you in
>moderate doses, doesn't mean it is not harmful in larger doses. If you
>think of the natural state of man, thousands of years ago, did it make sense
>for the way our bodies have evolved, to take that concentration of a vitamin
>into our system? Is it even feasible? Could anyone eat that many citrus
>fruits? Homeopathy, we find, is based on laws that govern our biology -
>there is no getting around the why or wherefore of our capacity to be
>healthy - we have physiological limitations.

Please read the studies and research.
It isn't about whether you could eat that many citrus fruits.
All animals, nearly, except humans synthesize their own - what happened to
humans. I would suggest that we are not in the state we were created and
therefore need it as a nutrient.

Could use the same argument about homeopathy. Why do we need sepia - do we
have a sepia deficiency?
Simplistic I know.



>
>Broccolli is good for me, but I'm not a cow with four stomach chambers able
>to break down much of those nutrients and fibre and I wouldn't eat 5 huge
>bunches just to get a massive intake of Vitamin C and calcium. I have
>limitations. And I truly believe that human beings are not meant to do a
>number of things, such as: drink cow's milk, eat massive amounts of sugar
>(amounts we consider negligible) and to take massive amounts of vitamins.
>
>I'm just as skeptical about natural claims -- which often turn on a dime
>year after year -- as I am about so-called 'modern' medicine. The only
>thing I have no doubts about is homeopathy. I'm pretty rock-steady about
>that.
>
>That said, I'm not a professional; I'm was just contributing to the
>conversation and my sense is that anything in excess should always be
>questionned. I have a strong sense, from all my years of gleaning, that
>multi-doses of vitamins may take their toll long-term.
>

Just read the thousands of documents re: research by those who know more
than you and I on this matter and don't have a bias like allopathy does to
keep it a secret.
That's all I'm saying.

I don't know why, and I don't know 'how' homeopathy works either.

I know what the studies and experiences with Vitamin C have shown.
Sheri>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures (AT) tesco (DOT) net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936