Hi
I am seeking some guidance please.
I saw a baby last night with Downs. Some of the symptoms his mother gave me,
she also said are quite common with Downs Babies. For example, the narrow
nasal passages which cause snuffles and make him more prone to catarrh.
He also has a small hole in his heart, which doctors think will heal by
itself.
How much emphasis should I put on the symptoms she would like help with
that she says are common to babies with Downs Syndrome? (he has a lot of
digestive problems).

I am a little unsure how best to help the poor baby. Maybe I am looking too
closely at his condition?

Many Thanks

Caroline

Free Range Education The Book About Home Education :-)

What needs to be cured? I have treated quite a lot of children with
downs syndrome but you still need to aim for what needs to be cured and
take the case accordingly.

Also may I ask, as I am often doing, that people with Down syndrome NOT
be referred to as Down syndrome babies, or Down syndrome adults, or
Downs babies etc. they are people first who just happen to have this
syndrome and we should not identify them by this characteristic. Joy

http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://homepage.mac.com/joylucas/

On 23 Feb 2006, at 14:02, Caroline Spear wrote:

> Hi
> I am seeking some guidance please.
> I saw a baby last night with Downs. Some of the symptoms his mother
> gave me, she also said are quite common with Downs Babies. For
> example, the narrow nasal passages which cause snuffles and make him
> more prone to catarrh.
> He also has a small hole in his heart, which doctors think will heal
> by itself.
> How much emphasis should I put on the symptoms she would like help
> with that she says are common to babies with Downs Syndrome? (he has a
> lot of digestive problems).
>
> I am a little unsure how best to help the poor baby. Maybe I am
> looking too closely at his condition?
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Caroline

If they are sx to be cured then they become high ranking sx. The
snuffles, catarrh, the digestive problems can all be cured and a lot
more besides. Beware the hole in the heart, they don't always heal and
the child doesn't always get a priority if it <<< but this too can be
helped if not cured homeopathically. Best, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://homepage.mac.com/joylucas/

On 23 Feb 2006, at 14:58, Caroline Spear wrote:

> Thanks Joy
> I used the term "Downs" to clarify what was causing my confusion. I
> also wanted to be clear about what is common to this state and
> therefore should the symptoms rate so highly that are common to people
> with this condition.
> His Mum happily uses this term. But I do take on board what you are
> saying.
>
> Thank You
>
> Caroline :-)
> Free Range Education The Book About Home Education :-)
> ----- Original Message -----

Joy said:
> Beware the hole in the heart, they don't always heal and the child
> doesn't always get a priority if .... but this too can be helped if not
> cured homeopathically.

I just wanted to put my two cents in for the hole-in-the heart not closing.
Generally, that is true as Joy said. My daughter (although not born with
Downs syndrome) was born with two holes in her heart - one, called a VSD
(ventricular septum defect) and the other called a PDA (pantent?? ductus of
the aorta).

We went to a well-known cardiologist who did echocardiograms on her every 6
months to watch the progress. I was sick with worry because he admitted to
us that although VSD's sometimes closed, it was rarer for PDAs to close
since it was a little flap open near the aortic valve and sometimes tissue
grew over it and sometimes not. We were told that by the time she was 2
years old, it would have to be operated on. If the VSD needed closing - we
were looking at open-heart surgery but if the PDA didn't, some procedure
where they put a tiny catheter up her leg would do it - still highly risky.

You can imagine how freaked out I was. Anyhow, this was before the internet
(I think) and I did a lot of research at the library. I had already been
nursing her for 4 months at that time, but found out that these holes closed
tended to close more often when the baby grew slow and steady, on a diet of
mother's milk, rather than formula which tended to produce bigger, quicker
growing babies. Anyhow, long story short, I nursed her for 2 years and
during that time she had not one cold, not one ear infection and as an adult
now, rarely gets sick. Bizarrely enough, concurrent with the nursing, I
took several doses of Arnica over the year for sleep disturbances and minor
accidents and wondered if she got any of that through the milk and it helped
her heart as well since it is a great heart muscle remedy.

Suffice to say, both the holes closed up beautifully. Who knows why or what
did the trick. She is a healthy child with no residual effects from her
original condition.

Martha

And, from what I've been told, you would still place emphasis on those
symptoms which are *not* common to Downs. Characteristics of
personality and sensitivities, modalities. I've seen cases (not
necessarily of Downs) cured with a remedy that did not even *seem* to
cover all of the particulars, but where there was a very good match
between very distinctive features of the person and the remedy. So I
would begin by looking for those.

Joy, given that she is simply describing a salient aspect of the case,
putting her question in context, how would you prefer that she (and the
rest of us) phrase it?
Shannon

On Feb 23, 2006, at 9:07 AM, Joy Lucas wrote:

> If they are sx to be cured then they become high ranking sx. The
> snuffles, catarrh, the digestive problems can all be cured and a lot
> more besides. Beware the hole in the heart, they don't always heal and
> the child doesn't always get a priority if it <<< but this too can be
> helped if not cured homeopathically. Best, Joy
> http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
> http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
> http://homepage.mac.com/joylucas/
>
> On 23 Feb 2006, at 14:58, Caroline Spear wrote:
>
>> Thanks Joy
>> I used the term "Downs" to clarify what was causing my confusion. I
>> also wanted to be clear about what is common to this state and
>> therefore should the symptoms rate so highly that are common to
>> people with this condition.
>> His Mum happily uses this term. But I do take on board what you are
>> saying.
>>
>> Thank You
>>
>> Caroline :-)
>> Free Range Education The Book About Home Education :-)
>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>

And my two-cents worth: when I was about 45, I was told that I had Mitral
Valve Syndrome and was advised to take antibiotics before dentistry work (I
later discovered that several of my friends had been told the same thing at
the same age.) At around 55 I had to wear a heart monitor for 24 hours
because of an EKG that was not "right". Nothing came of that, but at around
60 (four years ago) I was sent once again to a cardiologist and subsequently
told I needed an ultrasound of the back of my heart. I resisted for a while
but finally had the non-invasive procedure done. Found out that I was born
with a hole (a fistula, I think is what they called it in writing, but I was
told "a hole") in my heart. It was so fascinating to the doctors who were
looking at the screen that they called in reinforcements to have a look,
meanwhile giving me more of whatever drugs they were pumping into me to keep
me "tranquil".

After all of that, I know that for 63 years my "hole-y" heart and I have
been doing just fine, thank you. I surely hope that baby does, too!

Teresa (in VA)

PS In our local elementary school where I volunteer-teach, there are a
number of Down's syndrome kids. Also Down's syndrome people working in our
community. They are doing wonderfully! I am old enough to remember when that
was unthinkable. Things have changed for the better in many ways, even
though it sometimes doesn't look like it.

It seems to me that using that expression the way it is presently used is no
worse than, for example, saying African American (two of my children, now
adults, are!) or whatever expression that allows one relate to problems a
person may have that others don't have. I sure go around telling people that
bipolar is bearable--I know for a fact! Hushing things up is the problem,
not using words in a wise way.

It reminds me of a very kind and knowledgeable swimming teacher-trainer from
whom I learned that we are all TAB's i.e., Temporarily Able-Bodied people
and would do well to be aware of that that fortunate, but not always durable
situation. At that time I did not know I had bipolar disorder; after I found
that out, the phrase has had a special meaning for me.


-----Original Message-----
From: homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com
[mailto:homeopathy-bounces (AT) homeolist (DOT) com] On Behalf Of tmrmartha
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:27 AM
To: Joy Lucas
Cc: homeopathy list
Subject: Re: [H] Downs baby and hole in heart

Joy said:
> Beware the hole in the heart, they don't always heal and the child
> doesn't always get a priority if .... but this too can be helped if not
> cured homeopathically.

I just wanted to put my two cents in for the hole-in-the heart not closing.
Generally, that is true as Joy said. My daughter (although not born with
Downs syndrome) was born with two holes in her heart - one, called a VSD
(ventricular septum defect) and the other called a PDA (pantent?? ductus of
the aorta).

We went to a well-known cardiologist who did echocardiograms on her every 6
months to watch the progress. I was sick with worry because he admitted to
us that although VSD's sometimes closed, it was rarer for PDAs to close
since it was a little flap open near the aortic valve and sometimes tissue
grew over it and sometimes not. We were told that by the time she was 2
years old, it would have to be operated on. If the VSD needed closing - we
were looking at open-heart surgery but if the PDA didn't, some procedure
where they put a tiny catheter up her leg would do it - still highly risky.

You can imagine how freaked out I was. Anyhow, this was before the internet

(I think) and I did a lot of research at the library. I had already been
nursing her for 4 months at that time, but found out that these holes closed

tended to close more often when the baby grew slow and steady, on a diet of
mother's milk, rather than formula which tended to produce bigger, quicker
growing babies. Anyhow, long story short, I nursed her for 2 years and
during that time she had not one cold, not one ear infection and as an adult

now, rarely gets sick. Bizarrely enough, concurrent with the nursing, I
took several doses of Arnica over the year for sleep disturbances and minor
accidents and wondered if she got any of that through the milk and it helped

her heart as well since it is a great heart muscle remedy.

Suffice to say, both the holes closed up beautifully. Who knows why or what

did the trick. She is a healthy child with no residual effects from her
original condition.

Martha

As with any 'illness', 'condition', 'state' I don't think it is good to
identify people by that firstly instead of as a person - as in autistic
child; as in fat person; as in dyslexic person; as in cancer person
etc. I don't even like using the word 'patient' and avoid it as I think
it disadvantages people from the outset. So 'person with down syndrome'
is a much nicer way of saying it. Maybe ask someone who has down
syndrome what they think about it. Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://homepage.mac.com/joylucas/

On 23 Feb 2006, at 16:06, Robert & Shannon Nelson wrote:

> And, from what I've been told, you would still place emphasis on those
> symptoms which are *not* common to Downs. Characteristics of
> personality and sensitivities, modalities. I've seen cases (not
> necessarily of Downs) cured with a remedy that did not even *seem* to
> cover all of the particulars, but where there was a very good match
> between very distinctive features of the person and the remedy. So I
> would begin by looking for those.
>
> Joy, given that she is simply describing a salient aspect of the case,
> putting her question in context, how would you prefer that she (and
> the rest of us) phrase it?
> Shannon
>
> On Feb 23, 2006, at 9:07 AM, Joy Lucas wrote:
>
>> If they are sx to be cured then they become high ranking sx. The
>> snuffles, catarrh, the digestive problems can all be cured and a lot
>> more besides. Beware the hole in the heart, they don't always heal
>> and the child doesn't always get a priority if it <<< but this too
>> can be helped if not cured homeopathically. Best, Joy

Hi Caroline,

at the time of Hahnemann and much later, the "name" - i.e. the concept
of Downs had not been coined.

Thus, Hahnemann, v. Böninghausen, Hering, probably Kent could not take
it into consideration - which obviously means that, in cases like
this, they would have taken the symptoms as they were. If they had had
access to the symptom "hole in heart" they probably would have taken
this also - in cases, where it was bid genaough to cause symptoms they
would have taken them insted, for certain. They also would have taken
all the other the symptoms that nowadays are grouped under "Down's".
To them, all those symptoms would have been characteristic, unusual,
strange etc., since they do not occur "with almost all cases of
illness" (viz. Para 153)

****

The more general and undefined symptoms: loss of appetite, headache,
debility, restless sleep, discomfort, and so forth, demand but little
attention when of that vague and indefinite character, if they cannot
be more accurately described, as symptoms of such a general nature are
observed in almost every disease and from almost every drug.

****

The typical sx of Down's definitely do not fall into this category.

Have they really become less "striking, singular, uncommon and
peculiar (characteristic)" because regular medicine has grouped them
together under one of their concepts and named them? This idea seems
absurd to me.

In other words: IMO one should take the symptoms as they are without
consideration of any name attached to them as a group.

Regards

Luise


On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Caroline Spear wrote:

> Hi
> I am seeking some guidance please.
> I saw a baby last night with Downs. Some of the symptoms his mother gave me,
> she also said are quite common with Downs Babies. For example, the narrow
> nasal passages which cause snuffles and make him more prone to catarrh.
> He also has a small hole in his heart, which doctors think will heal by
> itself.
> How much emphasis should I put on the symptoms she would like help with that
> she says are common to babies with Downs Syndrome? (he has a lot of digestive
> problems).
>
> I am a little unsure how best to help the poor baby. Maybe I am looking too
> closely at his condition?
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Caroline
>
> Free Range Education The Book About Home Education :-)
>

In fact, Joy, after I wrote my email I went to volunteer-teach at the local
ES and happened upon another teacher who works with kids with Down's
syndrome. I asked her and she said that they use that expression. But I'm
glad to turn it around if that makes it more PC...

I'm quick to identify myself as a person with bipolar disorder--and admit
that I was once a fat kid, BTW, and very self-conscious about it back then.
Bipolar is a hereditary problem as is Down's. Not a character flaw or
something I could have avoided. When I was first on a psych ward, I would
wonder why I couldn't just have cancer, or some respectable illness like
that! I've come a long way, baby!

I love those lines from a very un-PC movie of my childhood days (**Uncle
Remus**): "It's what you do with what you've got and never mind how much
you've got!"

We people with hereditary disorders are doing a WHOLE lot with what we've
got nowadays, in the U.S. at least!

Teresa (in VA)



Joy wrote:
As with any 'illness', 'condition', 'state' I don't think it is good to
identify people by that firstly instead of as a person - as in autistic
child; as in fat person...

Probably getting off topic now but lots of people saying it doesn't
make it OK and it has nothing to do with political correctness but it
has everything to do with how we 'see' people and define them and as
homeopaths we have to be objective and yet caring about how we define
our clients. How they define themselves is another matter entirely.
Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://homepage.mac.com/joylucas/

On 23 Feb 2006, at 20:32, Teresa Kramer wrote:

> In fact, Joy, after I wrote my email I went to volunteer-teach at the
> local
> ES and happened upon another teacher who works with kids with Down's
> syndrome. I asked her and she said that they use that expression. But
> I'm
> glad to turn it around if that makes it more PC...
>
> I'm quick to identify myself as a person with bipolar disorder--and
> admit
> that I was once a fat kid, BTW, and very self-conscious about it back
> then.
> Bipolar is a hereditary problem as is Down's. Not a character flaw or
> something I could have avoided. When I was first on a psych ward, I
> would
> wonder why I couldn't just have cancer, or some respectable illness
> like
> that! I've come a long way, baby!
>
> I love those lines from a very un-PC movie of my childhood days
> (**Uncle
> Remus**): "It's what you do with what you've got and never mind how
> much
> you've got!"
>
> We people with hereditary disorders are doing a WHOLE lot with what
> we've
> got nowadays, in the U.S. at least!
>
> Teresa (in VA)