Hello to all of you,

I am new to the list and wondering if anyone can help me with a question.

I am scheduled to donate a kidney to my 19 yr. old son on February 28. My homeopath has prescribed several homeopathic remedies for my son and I pre-and post-surgery. Specifically, arnica prior, bryonia, bellis, and calendula on the day of surgery and for a few days following, ipecac and hypericum if needed after surgery, and thiosin. 1 week post surgery for several months.

Someone has suggested to me that homeopathics might "irritate" the kidney I will be donating
or in some way interfere with the immunosuppression my son will need.

Is this a subject that has come up before? If I should avoid homeopathics prior to surgery, I would appreciate hearing from anyone with knowledge and experience here.

Thanks very much!
Barb

Barb,

The title homeopath is kind of vague in the USA due to lack of unified formal training and medically accepted licensing standards, thus you don't know the basis of the help you are receiving unless you know what to look for. Based on what you've written, it doesn't seem like you are working with a pure classically trained homeopath because you are being given multiple remedies to take, possibly, at the same time and are being prescribed remedies based on assumptions of what you and your son may experience prior and post surgery.

Is your homeopath also a naturopath, chiropractor, Reiki, Rolfer, TCM, MD or other type of practitioner because it appears he is prescribing preventatively by using homeopathic remedies as if they were vitamins and herbs.

While I am not a homeopath, some questions that may help other homeopaths answer you are, do you know your constitutional remedy? Would a dose of that be more appropriate? What potencies are your homeopath prescribing? What about your son's and your mental states prior to surgery, fear, apprehension, glee?

Your real concern should be focused on the quality, track record and reputation of the surgeon and hospital. I've been visiting a friend in one of the "best" hospitals since January 2. What was supposed to be a "routine" aortic aneurysm operation, in and out in 2 days, became prolonged due to possible initial "best" surgeon induced complications by extending surgery and anestheia to 10 hours, then heart attack, kidney failure, colon blockage, 2nd surgery, vascular/circulation problems with possible leg amputation, urinary tract infection due to catheter, blood in urine, feeding tube through nose, ventilator tubes down throat. The person has yet to eat or drink and can not swallow, speak and barely move. Now a stomach feeding tube will be implanted along with bladder exploration for tumor or bleeding site. Along with multiple antibiotic and drugs, antidepressants were just introduced. Homeopathic treatment will unavailable once you're in the hospital at the mercy of your care
team, so make sure they're good!

Best of luck to you and your son.

Susan


Barb wrote:

Hello to all of you,

I am new to the list and wondering if anyone can help me with a
question.

I am scheduled to donate a kidney to my 19 yr. old son on February 28.
My homeopath has prescribed several homeopathic remedies for my son and
I pre-and post-surgery. Specifically, arnica prior, bryonia, bellis,
and calendula on the day of surgery and for a few days following, ipecac
and hypericum if needed after surgery, and thiosin. 1 week post surgery
for several months.

Someone has suggested to me that homeopathics might "irritate" the
kidney I will be donating
or in some way interfere with the immunosuppression my son will need.

Is this a subject that has come up before? If I should avoid
homeopathics prior to surgery, I would appreciate hearing from anyone with
knowledge and experience here.

Thanks very much!
Barb

Dear sir,
The way the medicines have been prescribed to you and your son is completely unhomoeopathic.There is no guaranty that they will not harm you or your son.As regards the benefits,may god be merciful.
Sabby

Hi Barb,

the poster and readers on this list are preominantly "classical"
homeopaths, and we do not have the necessary knowledge and experience
to evaluate the kind of homeopathic treatment you are talking about.

This said:

1.
I have read that it is not a good idea to give Arnica before an
operation, since it has been shown that it can increase the bleeding.

2.
I wonder whether it is a good idea to give or take anything before an
operation without the knowledge of the surgeon/anethesist etc. Esp.
remedies from alternative medicine might not be a good idea; if
anything should happen on account of them during the operation, the
doctors will not have any expertise to deal with it.

Regards

Luise


On Mon, 6 Feb 2006, e.mainz (AT) att (DOT) net wrote:

> Hello to all of you,
>
> I am new to the list and wondering if anyone can help me with a question.
>
> I am scheduled to donate a kidney to my 19 yr. old son on February 28. My homeopath has prescribed several homeopathic remedies for my son and I pre-and post-surgery. Specifically, arnica prior, bryonia, bellis, and calendula on the day of surgery and for a few days following, ipecac and hypericum if needed after surgery, and thiosin. 1 week post surgery for several months.
>
> Someone has suggested to me that homeopathics might "irritate" the kidney I will be donating
> or in some way interfere with the immunosuppression my son will need.
>
> Is this a subject that has come up before? If I should avoid homeopathics prior to surgery, I would appreciate hearing from anyone with knowledge and experience here.
>
> Thanks very much!
> Barb
>

Hi Luise

Can you give me a reference for your point about arnica increasing
bleeding? This has previously been shown not to be the case
(Baillargeon, Drouin, Desjardins, Leroux, Audet. The Effects of Arnica
montana on Blood Coagulation. Canadian Family Physician, Nov 1993, 39,
2362-2367) and I've found no evidence of this either.

Regards
Robert


Luise Kunkle wrote:

>
> Hi Barb,
>
> the poster and readers on this list are preominantly "classical"
> homeopaths, and we do not have the necessary knowledge and experience
> to evaluate the kind of homeopathic treatment you are talking about.
>
> This said:
>
> 1.
> I have read that it is not a good idea to give Arnica before an
> operation, since it has been shown that it can increase the bleeding.
>
> 2.
> I wonder whether it is a good idea to give or take anything before an
> operation without the knowledge of the surgeon/anethesist etc. Esp.
> remedies from alternative medicine might not be a good idea; if
> anything should happen on account of them during the operation, the
> doctors will not have any expertise to deal with it.
>
> Regards
>
> Luise
>
>
> On Mon, 6 Feb 2006, e.mainz (AT) att (DOT) net wrote:
>
>> Hello to all of you,
>>
>> I am new to the list and wondering if anyone can help me with a
>> question.
>>
>> I am scheduled to donate a kidney to my 19 yr. old son on February
>> 28. My homeopath has prescribed several homeopathic remedies for my
>> son and I pre-and post-surgery. Specifically, arnica prior, bryonia,
>> bellis, and calendula on the day of surgery and for a few days
>> following, ipecac and hypericum if needed after surgery, and thiosin.
>> 1 week post surgery for several months.
>>
>> Someone has suggested to me that homeopathics might "irritate" the
>> kidney I will be donating
>> or in some way interfere with the immunosuppression my son will need.
>>
>> Is this a subject that has come up before? If I should avoid
>> homeopathics prior to surgery, I would appreciate hearing from anyone
>> with knowledge and experience here.
>>
>> Thanks very much!
>> Barb
>>

Hi Robert,

someone posted this on the German list recently.

If you will give me your permission I'll cross-post is on the list and
ask for references (if any;-)

Regards

Luise

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006, Robert Medhurst wrote:

> Hi Luise
>
> Can you give me a reference for your point about arnica increasing bleeding?
> This has previously been shown not to be the case (Baillargeon, Drouin,
> Desjardins, Leroux, Audet. The Effects of Arnica montana on Blood
> Coagulation. Canadian Family Physician, Nov 1993, 39, 2362-2367) and I've
> found no evidence of this either.
>
> Regards
> Robert
>
>
> Luise Kunkle wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Barb,
>>
>> the poster and readers on this list are preominantly "classical"
>> homeopaths, and we do not have the necessary knowledge and experience to
>> evaluate the kind of homeopathic treatment you are talking about.
>>
>> This said:
>>
>> 1.
>> I have read that it is not a good idea to give Arnica before an operation,
>> since it has been shown that it can increase the bleeding.
>>
>> 2.
>> I wonder whether it is a good idea to give or take anything before an
>> operation without the knowledge of the surgeon/anethesist etc. Esp.
>> remedies from alternative medicine might not be a good idea; if anything
>> should happen on account of them during the operation, the doctors will
>> not have any expertise to deal with it.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Luise
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2006, e.mainz (AT) att (DOT) net wrote:
>>
>> > Hello to all of you,
>> >
>> > I am new to the list and wondering if anyone can help me with a
>> > question.
>> >
>> > I am scheduled to donate a kidney to my 19 yr. old son on February 28.
>> > My homeopath has prescribed several homeopathic remedies for my son and
>> > I pre-and post-surgery. Specifically, arnica prior, bryonia, bellis, and
>> > calendula on the day of surgery and for a few days following, ipecac and
>> > hypericum if needed after surgery, and thiosin. 1 week post surgery for
>> > several months.
>> >
>> > Someone has suggested to me that homeopathics might "irritate" the
>> > kidney I will be donating
>> > or in some way interfere with the immunosuppression my son will need.
>> >
>> > Is this a subject that has come up before? If I should avoid
>> > homeopathics prior to surgery, I would appreciate hearing from anyone
>> > with knowledge and experience here.
>> >
>> > Thanks very much!
>> > Barb
>>>

Sure- that's fine. Thanks Luise.


Regards
Robert

Luise Kunkle wrote:

Hi Robert,

someone posted this on the German list recently.

If you will give me your permission I'll cross-post is on the list and
ask for references (if any;-)

Regards

Luise

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006, Robert Medhurst wrote:

> Hi Luise
>
> Can you give me a reference for your point about arnica increasing
bleeding?
> This has previously been shown not to be the case (Baillargeon,
> Drouin, Desjardins, Leroux, Audet. The Effects of Arnica montana on
> Blood Coagulation. Canadian Family Physician, Nov 1993, 39, 2362-2367)
> and I've found no evidence of this either.
>
> Regards
> Robert
>
>
> Luise Kunkle wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Barb,
>>
>> the poster and readers on this list are preominantly "classical"
>> homeopaths, and we do not have the necessary knowledge and
>> experience to evaluate the kind of homeopathic treatment you are
>> talking
about.
>>
>> This said:
>>
>> 1.
>> I have read that it is not a good idea to give Arnica before an
>> operation, since it has been shown that it can increase the bleeding.
>>
>> 2.

Arnica m is also used to absorb haemorrhages - retinal, for example.

Jeff Tikari
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Medhurst" <robertm (AT) brauer (DOT) com.au>
To: <homeopathy (AT) homeolist (DOT) com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: [H] Using homeopathics pre-and post-transplant surgery


>
>
> Sure- that's fine. Thanks Luise.
>
>
> Regards
> Robert
>
> Luise Kunkle wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> someone posted this on the German list recently.
>
> If you will give me your permission I'll cross-post is on the list and
> ask for references (if any;-)
>
> Regards
>
> Luise
>
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2006, Robert Medhurst wrote:
>
> > Hi Luise
> >
> > Can you give me a reference for your point about arnica increasing
> bleeding?
> > This has previously been shown not to be the case (Baillargeon,
> > Drouin, Desjardins, Leroux, Audet. The Effects of Arnica montana on
> > Blood Coagulation. Canadian Family Physician, Nov 1993, 39, 2362-2367)
> > and I've found no evidence of this either.
> >
> > Regards
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > Luise Kunkle wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Barb,
> >>
> >> the poster and readers on this list are preominantly "classical"
> >> homeopaths, and we do not have the necessary knowledge and
> >> experience to evaluate the kind of homeopathic treatment you are
> >> talking
> about.
> >>
> >> This said:
> >>
> >> 1.
> >> I have read that it is not a good idea to give Arnica before an
> >> operation, since it has been shown that it can increase the bleeding.
> >>
> >> 2.
>
>

Thanks for your input, Susan, Luise, and Robert. As a still-new user of homeopathic remedies, I appreciate your perspectives as proponents of classical homeopathy.

Susan---Yes, my "homeopath" is actually a naturopath and chiropractor, so I'm sure your assumptions are right. He was trained at Bastyr in Seattle, if that is any help.

You raise some good points. I'm pretty sure my constitutional remedy is lycopodium, being something of a bookish "nerd," college English prof. type. I am finding it is easing a lot of my jitters relating to these surgeries. I have been taking plumbum met for 9 or 10 months, mainly for somewhat high cholesterol, but also for the anxiety this past year has brought.

My interest in the surgery-related homeopathics came about after reading something from Homeopathic Educational Services called "A Homeopathic Perspective on Pre-and Post-Surgical Treatment" by Dana Ullman, MPH. (http://www.homeopathic.com/articles/...st_surgery.php) I know he's prominent in the field, but apparently not classical. He makes some specific recommendations, as you can see for yourself at the website. (In his opinion, arnica "minimizes bleeding" and decreases "bleeding time.")

Since I wrote in, I have asked my surgeon about all of this, Luise. He is basically ok with any post-surgery homeopathics, just no pre-surgery homeopathics. My surgery will be hand-assisted laparoscopic, which involves filling the abdomen with carbon dioxide (and incision above and below the navel). A major discomfort following surgery, I'm told, is getting rid of all that CO 2. Using lycopodium for that and bellis for the deep tissue trauma interest me at this point, but I look forward to hearing what your thoughts are.

Thanks so much for your insights!

Barb




-------------- Original message from homeopathy-request@homeolist

> Barb said:

You raise some good points. I'm pretty sure my constitutional remedy is lycopodium, being something of a bookish "nerd," college English prof. type. I am finding it is easing a lot of my jitters relating to these surgeries. I have been taking plumbum met for 9 or 10 months, mainly for somewhat high cholesterol, but also for the anxiety this past year has brought.

Hi Barb:

I am curious as to why you are taking Plumbum for high cholesterol. And if you ARE taking it now for 9 or 10 months, is it on a daily or weekly basis? It's a pretty specific remedy and not a polychrest for sure, so I'm wondering. I'm interested in your story for two reasons: 1) I had very high (unexplained) blood pressure for about 6 months (even after 25 years taking homeopathic remedies) and my physician warned me to lower it because of possible end-organ damage. I am not overweight, have a great diet and had none of the risk factors associated with heart disease. I knew intuitively that it was mentally/emotionally based. My homeopath prescribed Lycopodium based on my total symptoms and 3 weeks later, I went back to take my BP again along with blood tests, and the BP was not only normal, but low normal and my physician was flabbergasted as all my other levels were dramatically improved too (C-reactive protein, LDL and HDL was nice and high). It just seems to me you might be better off with a consitutional remedy.

Somebody out there correct me if I'm wrong, but Plumbum is lead and often given for lead poisoning and symptoms similar to that type of poisoning. It was a great remedy for my mother who was exposed to lead much of her life. Seems an odd remedy to take for high cholesterol, though.

The second reason I'm interested in your story is that I too might be facing a transplant - my brother is a kidney transplant patient and his original transplanted kidney may not last. I am his only sibling so I might be in your position one day too. I have discussed transplant surgery with my homeopath extensively and we discussed arnica before and after surgery (among other remedies). I agree with Dana Ullman on the arnica. In fact I took it right before and after my C-section 17 years ago and my healing was terrific. The surgeon was amazed and had heard of arnica, but never seen it in action, so to speak.

I wish you all the best. I am curious as to what all the others might have to say about the Plumbum.

Take care Barb.
Martha