Just read this: "Newest Research On Why You Should Avoid Soy"
http://www.prostate90.com/sci_papers/soy_dangers.htm

Is this true or is it a hysterical reaction of the meat industries? I don't how much one can trust this paper on soya, but it seems to have a lot of information.

Suthi

Mm, fascinating and disturbing article!

It does seem to me that they have the weight of the evidence on their side...

I'm biased because personally I can't handle tofu or soy protein isolate, or even soy oil, at all--and realized only in recent years that *fermented* soy, such as miso, tempeh--and maybe sprouted soy as well--seems fine, at least in the moderate amounts I've used it.

And doesn't it seem suspicious that soy's "traditional" usage has been, as the article notes, to use only a little, usually along with meat, and usually fermented; but that in this age of "chemical medicine" it's been "discovered" and is now urged upon us in all of these utterly unnatural forms (protein isolate, soy milk) and at unnatural times (there is *lots* of cautionary writing on the subject of soy milk infant formulas!!!!!!)

Shannon

If you follow the trail a little way you will discover that one of the women who wrote this paper heads a foundation that promotes the notion that animal fats are necessary for health. So all the opinions (papers) she has collected support this one notion and undermine the competitive notions.

Richard Knapp

I agree with both Richard and Shannon.

Richard's right that Sally Fallon is a huge proponent of animal fats to improve EVERYONE's health. My personal opinion is some folks health is greatly improved by the addition of whole or minimumly processed animal fats while some folks health is worsened by even small amounts of the same. The trick is to know what kind of person you're dealing with. :-) FWIW, I put much greater stock in Weston Price's research than in Sally Fallon's. (I think she founded the Weston A. Price Society.) He kept meticulous records of his observations and then tested his theories repeatedly and scrupulously along with his treatment protocols. IMO Sally Fallon isn't a researcher so much as an advocate. She's partial to broad statements out of the context WAP used. I agree with her completely that these modern, factory modified animal fats and vegetable oils are harmful to health so I don't automatically disregard what she says, I just look for reasonable qualifiers and context.

Based on my Sally Fallon comments no one should be surprised I think soy foods are highly beneficial to some folks and extremely detrimental to others. I know folks like Shannon who do great with soy only if it's been fermented first. Even though all members of my family do great on both fermented and non-fermented soy products, I'm highly suspicious of and avoid any protein isolates. The processing methods seem like they're designed to make make repugnant things palatable (or at least bland enough they can take on the flavors of other foods.) I lump texturized soy protein in with Cheez Wiz, margarine, and Mountain Dew... laboratory created substances disguised as food.

Based on my understanding of big agriculture in the US, I'm skeptical of the fantastic claims made by the soygrowers association. I keep in mind, however, just because they say something doesn't make it false.

Cheryl, who seldom rides the fence ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard If you follow the trail a little way you will discover that one of the women who wrote this paper heads a foundation that promotes the notion that animal fats are necessary for health. So all the opinions (papers) she has collected support this one notion and undermine the competitive notions.

Richard, I think that this is a GOOD thing for the Soy study. Animal fats are essential to good health and cholesterol is actually good for you, particularly for the elderly! See the research at the Weston A. Price foundation:
http://www.westonaprice.org/index.html

(and also check out Dr. Mercola's website at: http://www.mercola.com )

One interesting fact the Price Foundation uncovered about the much-cited Framingham Heart Study is that cholesterol is a "slightly" significant negative factor for health below the age of 40 but is significantly positive above this age!

This finding is and was conveniently ignored by the allopaths and Big Pharma. (With a backgound in scientific research and chemical engineering, I am familiar with the use and abuse of statistics.)

So this convinced me to discontinue my use of statins and I immediately felt much better! With continued care by a classical homeopathic MD, we are making good progress towards eliminating all other allopathic "heart" meds and my blood pressure is excellent.

Brian R. Connelly

Sorry to disagree, Brian. Animal fats are not good for me. I've tested this for decades and decades. Not only that, I object to using animals in a way that makes them slaves to us and, in my observation, animals are filthy. They are reservoirs of disease when in a captive state and require extraordinary measures to keep them clean and in good health.

The westonprice outfit is the one I mentioned (that the co-author was president of.) I'm going to see if I can discover who funded Price's "research".

Richard Knapp

I don't see the problem with that, unless she is promoting an "agenda" at the expense of actual facts. Is that what you're saying, and if so, on what basis? Many people *do* feel that animal fats (and animal food in general) are good for you, and many people find they feel and function better with animal foods. Unfortunately I'm one of those, as is my mom; even tho we would both *rather* be veggie, we don't function well that way.

Which is an entirely separate thing from the soy question, tho... Cautionary information about soya has been coming in from quite a number of fronts, and again, I do find the "traditional" angle compelling (that it's traditionally been used in small amounts and/or fermented, and/or along with meat), and also the fact that these highly touted soya products are *soooooo* hyper-processed, which I find not usually a good thing.

In the end, tho, it would surely depend on each individual's tolerance (or not) and needs--tho for infant formulas surely research ought to be closely examined!

Shannon

I'd believe Sally Fallon and her colleague Mary Enig to the grave, I think. They're probably the only researchers out there who aren't conducting studies paid for by pharmaceutical companies, agribusiness interests, or political lobbyists for any number ofself-serving interests. Mary Enig's lifelong work on fats in the diet is especially useful (and I love that both of these women promote a "diet" called Eat Fat Lose Fat--based on losing weight by augmenting calorie rich foods to the diet rather than using starvation. They are quite eye-opening.

As for the meat-industry....I think the soy industry is pretty big and powerful in its own right!

You can check out more of their work at: www.westonaprice.org The site even speaks very well (and educatedly) about homeopathy!

Regards,
Nancy

Rudolf Steiner noted that soya was basically a plant trying to be an animal, and that you really couldn't too little protein...Indian vegetarian cooking has prospered for thousands of years without people dropping like flies from too little protein.

To say that "you really couldn't [get] too little protein" really flies in the face of a whole lot of experience... But how much is "enough" will vary hugely, depending on many factors. Vegetarian cooking is certainly not devoid of protein! And also that protein is not sufficient for certain body types.