There are several out there who advocate mass homeopathic 'vaccination' - used routinely.

I DON'T agree with this in this way. All of the homeopaths I know and respect and study with DO NOT agree with this approach.

If a disease is nearby and you are at risk and you are really concerned - ie smallpox, polio, etc, then often homeopathy can be used temporarily in that instance. I have already posted information on homeoprophylaxis in that type of situation.

That is NOT this.

Here are the things you can do for the threat of an acute disease in an epidemic:
1. Wait and treat on the individual symptom picture that you have or develop - THIS IS THE BEST
2. Find the genus epidemicus (I have/will post more on this). This is the remedy that seems to fit most of the people in your area in THIS particular instance of the epidemic (not last years or in the past, but this one)
NEXT BEST
3. Use nosodes or remedies that have worked in past epidemics THE LEAST DESIRABLE

Each of the above has its applications depending on your situation. It is also good to have a homeopath to work with on this.

I give you this information so you know about it, but again I DON'T agree with this.-

Isaac Golden
http://www.lyghtforce.com/Homeopathy...ext/golden.htm
Isaac Golden

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My comments to someone on vaccinations list questioning this...........

>Based on Dr. Golden's statement above, his approach and especially his attitude appears to me to be commendable and quite respectful.

And it is in error in my opinion and those I study with and know. And I will speak out every time I see this type of thing posted. I cannot be silent. You of course can do what you will,

If you really comprehend homeopathy and its laws and principles it would never enter into your mind to do such a thing. The list of things he gives children is appalling to me. How does he know it prevented an illness - children are exposed to things all the time and don't get them - chicken pox, pertussis, colds, flu, etc. I just don't believe in disease and germs and bacteria and viruses as allopaths and it appears Dr. Golden do. It is not about preventing all of the supposed 'diseases'. Symptoms are just the body's way of dissipating a disturbance. A group of symptoms is classified by allopaths into a tidy name such as pertussis. But your 'pertussis' and my 'pertussis' may be something totally different - a few similar symptoms but many different. The different ones are often the key to prescribing a homeopathic remedy IF needed (and I say IF as it is not always). He may have so disturbed these children's vital force or immune systems, that they could not produce symptoms which is not good - just one possibility. If you understood the POWER of these remedies you would NEVER do such a thing.

I take a remedy with EXTREME caution - am not quick to take them as I KNOW from experience how powerful they are. It is ludicrous for a homeopath to think in such an allopathic way.

I encourage you to study homeopathy and you would understand what I mean.


It is the same in my opinion as a doctor or person:
1. Thinking that they'll take antibiotics preventatively so they never get sick - an allopath would object to that
Classical homeopaths object to so-called homeopathic vaccination

Do you think a medical doctor should just go along with that idea just because one other medical doctor thinks it works. Just because a parent wants to do it. Do you think a classical homeopath should just go along with the idea of 'homeopathic vaccination' just because one person who says he's a homeopath says you should and just because a parent wants to?

No, there are laws and principles to homeopathy just as there are in nature. You jump from a third story window, you will go down and not up. Law of gravity. It is the same with homeopathy. You just can't make it what you want to. Granted, we don't know everything about how homeopathy works and certainly new viewpoints are worthy of looking at but the idea of 'homoepathic vaccination' is just NOT homeopathy. Is just not viable for the long term for sure, and more than likely for most for the shortterm.

If I can say one thing that is important, and I've said it again and again, you have to research enough about vaccines, disease, alternate views on disease, alternate view on life, programming and brainwashing of us, etc. to finally come to the conclusion that bacteria and germs and viruses DO NOT cause disease. They are the result of disease or the problems that are associated with 'them' are the result of disease.

Once you GET this, you don't have a fear and you don't feel a need to prevent things in this way.

Some of Jim West's stuff is very helpful.
http://www.geocities.com/harpub
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>From one homeopath who I highly respect - one of the BEST homeopaths in the US in my opinion (in Maine)

Another question.
You know I'm constantly working with parents on vaccine dangers and teaching them about homeopathy. One frustration I have is the constant thing being brought up about homeopathic 'vaccination' and Isaac Golden, etc.
Sheri

I just describe this as a "me-too" attempt at mimicking conventional medicine. That the whole concept of generating artificial immunity to a disease belongs to allopathy, & not to us. & That what we *do* have, all of our own, are (1) homoeoprophylaxis - short-term interventions to assist the body in making the most functional response possible to the disease, but not to side-step around the process of developing the kind of natural immunity that only embracing and effectively dealing with the real disease can offer; and (2) effective means of addressing these childhood diseases with acute homoeopathic treatment, should they require that.

Most folks who come to me wanting "homeopathic vaccination" want something to satisfy third parties - schools, camps, grandparents. So that it can be written down as meeting somebody else's requirements. Informing them that the "authorities" will not accept this as a substitute usually diverts the question.

----------------------------------------
Will Taylor, MD
homoeopathic website at
http://www.simillibus.com

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And from another one of my mentors............

> Another question.
You know I'm constantly working with parents on vaccine dangers and teaching them about homeopathy. One frustration I have is the constant thing being brought up about homeopathic 'vaccination' and Isaac Golden, etc. I will send you some of my comments. Do you have anything written up or anything to suggest to say to show them this is not how classical homeopaths think.

No I haven't written anything. I just describe it as an allopathic approach to using homeopathic remedies and that there is no evidence that it works.

Steve Waldstein RSHom (NA)
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>From Phyllis Georgic, Homeopathy on the vaccinations list.....

Homeopathic Nosodes are not all that great as vaccines unless you know that there is an epidemic in the area or that you have been exposed to a disease. Homeopathic remedies don't last as a preventative for too long,....maybe 6 to 8 weeks for a 200c. I do suggest that my patients who wish to avoid the flu use Influenzinum 30c or 200c in distilled water, succussed (shaken vigoriously)several time and dosing of a few drops every month during that season. Some folks respond to Oscillicoccinum 200c in the same manner. I am one person who does not so I know that others also are not sensitive to that remedy. I will often take a dose of Streptococcinum 200c if I believe that I will be entering a home of a patient to do a housecall and that may have that disease. So I do use the remedies as nosodes. But I have used Pertussin 200c or 30c when a child has whooping cough. I most often notice that giving the remedy that suits the situation of symptoms is much better. So I might notice that everyone is calling me with a certain set of symptoms. I realize that there must be a virus that seems to be responding to a particular remedy. Sam Hahnemann called this Homeopathic Epidenicus. So I will suggest that a few folks who have been exposed to that particular sick patient also take that particular remedy for those symtpoms. But the effects of the remedy do not last very long. This is the same for "homeopathic vaccines" used as nosodes.

The scheduled method of allopathic vaccines is not based on science, only on the pharmacuetical industry's wish to sell their products. They just happen to have the approval of the goverenment and therefore, can make us all believe that only through continued vaccination that we can "wipe out all diseases". There is no science in any of this theory.

Hello Sheri and others,

Some in the homeopathic community have had concerns but these can no longer be these cannot be justifited following the more recent research in the area of homeoprophylaxis (HP).

For example, Isaac's recent doctoral thesis at Swinburne University is the first piece of (released) research to study the efficacy of HP and the long term health of four groups of children (over a 5 year period) following either,

1. vaccination

2. partial vaccination followed by HP

3. HP alone

4. No vaccination or HP but constitution strengthened through naturopathic approaches of complementary therapies (not homeopathy), organic food, etc, to increase resistance to disease.

When using the incidence of middle ear infections, behavioural problems, asthma, and respiratory tract infections, as measures of health, Isaac fully expected group 4 to be the healthiest. In fact, the healthiest was the HP group. The statistics also showed that HP provided immunity against childhood diseases of about 90%, a figure comparable or better than immunity conveyed by conventional vaccines. No guesses for the unhealthiest group - the vaccinated one. They fared the worst in all measures - for example, they were 15 times more likely to develop asthma.

In the past, many homeopaths (me being one) have had concerns about what may be happening to an infant's vital force if they were being exposed to a range of remedies and potencies purely for prevention rather than treatment of childhood infectious diseases. Well, the evidence is in and the facts show nothing but good seems to happen. As said, the HP group, whether fed organic or MacDonalds, living naturopathically or not, were healthier and more resilient than the "organic/naturopathic" group (though this group was still healthier than the fully or partially vaccinated groups, but not the healhiest).

One of the reasons postulated for this outcome is that Hahnemann was right - when the vital force is challenged by substances (esp in potency) as it is in provings, it is strengthened as long as the challenge is done only to the point of stimulation rather than aggravation and weakening.

In the light of Isaac's recent research, it would appear that we have nothing to fear but much to offer ailing humanity in the area of HP. Time to put away tired and baseless assertions to the contrary. Isaac should be applauded rather than villified for his ground breaking work in this area over the last 20 years.

-- Best regards, Fran

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheri Here are the things you can do for the threat of an acute disease in an epidemic:

We all have our own minds and I agree with what you have written above, but in the reverse order.

I, personally, would certainly not wait until a person was struck down by, say, polio before I administered any succor.

Jeff Tikari

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fran For example, Isaac's recent doctoral thesis at Swinburne University is the first piece of (released) research to study the efficacy of HP and the long term health of four groups of children (over a 5 year period) following either

How many children were in the groups?

Regards

Luise

> We all have our own minds and I agree with what you have written above,
> but in the reverse order.
>
> I, personally, would certainly not wait until a person was struck down by,
> say, polio before I administered any succor.

PS - "No disease will arise without an existing predisposition to that disease. It is the absence of the predisposition to any particular disease that makes us immune to it. Homoopathy alone is capable of removing these predispositions." (Homoopathy and Immunization; L. J. Speight, page 3.)
---------------------
To take an example:

Let us take the example of the Avian Flu spreading in certain parts. If the population we are considering has never suffered this particular type of Flu, then the population is 'predisposed' to the infection, for the Immune System is unfamiliar with the virus and by the time it produces antibodies to counter the onslaught, it could be too late.

Predispsed means 'disposed to harbour the particular virus', this could well be, (a) because the IMS is new to the virus or (b) the virus already has harbour in the constitution, but is subdued by the antibodies of the IM system.

In both the above examples the system is predisposed to the virus. The constitution may be robust, but is never infallible to a new unrecognised virus.

If, however, one was to administer a prophylactic, the immune system would become 'UN_DISPOSED' to that virus as the prophylactic would have alerted the IMS to produce antibodies and have it in its memory bank to be able to counter any such onslaught.

Please bear in mind that ALL homeopathic remedies are very broad spectrummed and as a prophylactic would cover a wide area of presenting symptoms.

Jeff Tikari

Well Fran, I still have major concerns and I don't have time to express them here. Studies aren't long enough. Studies can appear to prove anything you want to prove.

How do we know the child would not 'get the disease' anyway. Diseases are actually helpful and on and on.

Not something I will choose or recommend.
Sorry not enough time.

sheri

well, I don't agree with 'struck down;

Polio is not what any of us have been led to believe
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/polio.htm

I had a diagnosed case of "polio" at the age of four... got over it just fine without any after-effects and without any "treatment".

Many diseases have been inflated by the "medical" industry into gigantic monsters: chicken-pox, measles, mumps, etc., thereby justifying the pumping of toxins into very young children, primarily on the (unspoken) premise: "Why be inconvenienced by your child being sick?"

Do not know the total number off hand. The number that received HP was 1159 - data collected over a 15 year period.
--
Best regards,
Fran