Quote:

Originally Posted by Leela Quote: Originally Posted by Luise Reading the article it seems that I must have been a terribly amoral person for such a reaction to occur :-o Hi Luise, what does the word "amoral" mean for you?

Nothng specific: Not of high moral standard, my mind morally corrupted..whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leela I think in India, there is enough of clandestine abnormal sexual activity going on at various levels. But mainstream people are simple, sincere and straightforward. Good and evil is deeply ingrained sometimes to the extreme, and women bear the brunt of it.

Kinsey brought this into the open - for better or worse.

In India it is still clandestine, it seems. At my last visit even the big posters urging to use condomes because of aids, which had been there 5 or so years ago, had disappeared.

I wonder whether the lot of women - or men - is better in the countries where these things are still undercover, i.e. whether Kinsey actually hurt anyone except ingrained hypocrites.

Or maybe he even helped?

Regards

Luise

Hi Luise,
I don't know if Kinsey had any direct effect on us here in India.
But Hollywood has certainly done more damage, and if Kinsey is connected to Hollywood... then he has.

Abortion is legal here upto 12 weeks amemorrhea for the sake of family planning. The starnge fact is though, it is the poor who have a high infant motality rate in fact who have multiple pregnancies. The rich people don't have many children. The obvious inference is, which the population authorities prefer to ignore, is that the nore educated people get, and the more econolically stable they are, they automatically have less children.
Its a situation of having other options (becasue of varied interests and money) rather than just sex for entertainment..... For the poor, sex or alcohol is all they have.

In the cities, promiscuity or early, non marital sex is becoming common because of aping hollywood.
The traditional Indian family though is VERY protective of the girl child (for various reasons). In the state I live in right now, traditional people (even Christians) will not allow a couple to meet alone till they day of their marriage.

When I mean clandestine sexual activity - the miasmatically syphilitic mentality is present in some amount in every culture. Obviously these people will not be able to follow traditional sexual norms unless they make a great effort to do so. Mostly, they don't! So it does go on ... in circumstances where these people are.
There is a pronography industry (though very small) in India as well. There are red light areas in every city, etc. Not that different from anywhere else. The sad part though, is that the women in these red light areas have been tricked into prostitution by people trying to make money off them or else forced into it by circumstance (eg widowhood, homelessness).
They can never be rehabilitiated into normal society because they have crossed the line and traditional society will never accept them back. There are however various Christian groups working among them (because no one else will touch them with a bargepole) to rehabilitate them into normal life.

Really, there is much to expereince in India! But basically, life here is simple. The trauma in patients histories revolve around survival and interpersonal family conflicts. Very rarely there is deep sexual trama - this type of situation is naturally avoided or restricted to certain families. Unfoirtunately it may slowly change in cities.
Leela

__________________
http://www.homeopathy2health.com

A correction and addtion to below. There are Active Women Groups supported by NGO's working to rehabilitate these women as well.

__________________
http://www.homeopathy2health.com

"Knapp, Richard" KnappR@umsystem.edu wrote:
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:19 AM
Subject: [H] Anyone heard of Alfred Kinsey? - off topic



>Well, Kinsey's point, if I take him correctly, is that the so-called
>abnormal behaviors are, in fact, normal, that is, commonplace.

>>>>

Kinsey's "point" was to justify his *own* abnormal behavior by
making it *seem* "commonplace".

Hi Leela,
On May 20, 2005, at 12:25 AM, homeolist@otherhealth.com wrote:

> ...
> I don't know if Kinsey had any direct effect on us here in India.
> But Hollywood has certainly done more damage, and if Kinsey is
> connected to Hollywood... then he has.

I also don't know how much effect Kinsey had on our (US) present path,
but here too, Hollywood is certainly spreading the damage. Happily
(tho sooner would have been *much* better!) there is also an increasing
awareness among a growing sub-set of actors/actresses and producers,
etc., of the harm that these portrayals have been doing, and a growing
attempt at portraying more realistic and constructive images. But it
will be an awfully hard go... After all, "sweetness and light" just
isn't as *seductive* (at least to the miasmatically or hormonally
challenged) as sex and violence. And too many of our kids grow up in a
real "lack of context"--they haven't learned *why* these choices
matter. Too many kids (judging by my kids' friends in two widely
separated communities) have no chores, too many choices, too much time
on "plug-in glowing objects" (TV, video, internet, toxic computer
games, game cubes, etc.), too little supervision or guidance. In
*most* families here now, *both* parents must work in order to pay the
bills. And if anyone thinks that's a good thing...

These things too are finally being recognized by a growing sub-sector
of our population. (In addition to church communities, of course.)

Actually, it seems to me that much of the basis of many of our
problems, have to do with something like "Free Market Run Amok", or
"Profit Without Principles", or "The Sanctity of the Bottom Line"...
In earlier years it was *assumed* that an honorable businessman was an
honorable member of the *community*; doctors *assumed* that some of
their patients would be unable to pay, but they treated as necessary
anyway (at least to a point). People too pride in their workmanship.
But that sensibility has been gradually out-muscled by the greedier and
more short-sighted points of view. Happily that, too, is increasingly
recognized, and "the good guys" have begun to try to organize and fight
back. But it's tough. And boy, does it stink. :-P

I think this degeneration has not taken place to the same degree in
Europe yet (tho I gather it's been even worse in some other countries).
Hold the line, guys!!!

> ...
> There are red light areas in every city, etc. Not that different from
> anywhere else. The sad part though, is that the women in these red
> light areas have been tricked into prostitution by people trying to
> make money off them or else forced into it by circumstance (eg
> widowhood, homelessness).

That is largely the same here. I gather that some (I think very few)
are there because they like it, or at least find it worthwhile for the
very good pay--I've read about one, so presumably there are more,
who've used stints of prostitution to (gag) pay for college--and that,
I'm sure, is very much a product of Hollywood's desensitization! But
most are there for the reasons you give above: desperation, or
victimization.

> Shannon

Hi Shannon,
Thanks for your perspective. It certainly helps to know that you think alike. Its the reason I'm home and (practicing) on the internet, with my 3 kids as well. SOme of the stuff available on TV on the push of the button is horrendous!!!! ITs its available anytime ... no late night hours, etc.

I love that statement below:

__________________
http://www.homeopathy2health.com

For a different view of the supposed "liberator from Victorian morality" see:

http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/reisman.html

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3

http://www.rsvpamerica.org/pages/MPCsummaryarticle.html

Isn't it AWFUL??? I suppose all of us who feel this way should complain to the stations. I haven't, but having said that, maybe I will... And then axe the TV! (I wish...)

:-P

Hi Shannon,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon .. But it will be an awfully hard go... After all, "sweetness and light" just isn't as *seductive* (at least to the miasmatically or hormonally challenged) as sex and violence.

Is it not rather a biiig prejudice to lump those two together?

There has never been a taboo on violence in the Hollywookd movies even at the most sexually restricted times, when - as I once read in an interview - the most one could go to hint that Doris Day and Rock Hudson had spent the night together was that "they had such a good appetite at breakfast".

Regards

Luise

Hi Leela,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leela Quote: Originally Posted by Luise In India it is still clandestine, it seems. At my last visit even the big posters urging to use condomes because of aids, which had been there 5 or so years ago, had disappeared.

That is a big "if" - istn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leela Abortion is legal here upto 12 weeks amemorrhea for the sake of family planning. The starnge fact is though, it is the poor who have a high infant motality rate in fact who have multiple pregnancies. The rich people don't have many children. The obvious inference is, which the population authorities prefer to ignore, is that the nore educated people get, and the more econolically stable they are, they automatically have less children. Its a situation of having other options (becasue of varied interests and money)

Might the fact that they can afford contraceptives and the probable habit of using them not have anything to do with it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leela For the poor, sex or alcohol is all they have.

Not to forget TV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leela In the cities, promiscuity or early, non marital sex is becoming common because of aping hollywood.

Ah come on - non-marital sex was around everywhere long before Hollywood - at least for the men. It was just not talked about.

There are no novels in India before 1914 or so, as far as I know, but as to Europe and the USA: One might read the famous novelists of the 19th and early 20th century for insights in that matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leela The traditional Indian family though is VERY protective of the girl child (for various reasons). In the state I live in right now, traditional people (even Christians) will not allow a couple to meet alone till they day of their marriage.

Yes - and so the young men are homosexually active.

No-one can tell me that all those young men, at an age when the sexual drive is strongest, walking together holding hands or linking arms are bound merely by the bonds of platonic friendship.

Homosexuality is still a taboo topic in India. From the articles I have read in e.g. "The Hindu" he spread of AIDS is supposed to be via female prostitutes. This is, however, rather unlikely.

One day India will just have to face facts, as the Western Countries did when Rock Hudson died of the disease.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leela Really, there is much to expereince in India! But basically, life here is simple. The trauma in patients histories revolve around survival and interpersonal family conflicts. Very rarely there is deep sexual trama - this type of situation is naturally avoided or restricted to certain families. Unfortunately it may slowly change in cities.

Well, I do not know what you mean with "sexual trauma".

But judging from the number of clinics advertising "help in sexually connected matters" there appears to be quite some demand in that area.

Could it be that people are just too shy to talk about this in "regular" clinics?

Regards

Luise