Hi Rochelle,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochelle A patient of mine I think might have caused herself problems from taking too much Caul. The placenta failed to expel and I found this symptom within the MM for Caul. I

This is NOT a proving symptom - it is a *cured* symptom.

Regards

Luise

Dear Louise,

Please explain what you mean by this being a "cured" symptom (and NOT a proving symptom). It seems to me that if someone takes too much of any remedy they might exhibit any number of signs of 'overdose' (proving) of that remedy, as if the original substance had been embibed in it's 'raw' state.

Thank you for your kind help.

Regards,
Sati

There are basically three classes of symptoms:

-symptoms garnered through proving, that is symptoms appearing when a "healthy" individual takes the potentized remedy

-symptoms which are cured by a remedy in an "unhealthy" person, but which, previously, had not been listed as part of the symptom picture of that remedy

-symptoms appearing as a result of poisoning (unintentional proving)

Thank you, Kenneth, for your quick reply. Are you saying that any "unhealthy" person who takes a remedy, who then gets other symptoms that they did not have before and these 'new' symptoms correspond with the remedy taken, they are having "cured" symptoms?

Can an "unhealthy" person have an "unintentional proving"?

To expand on this:

Cured sx and proving sx are actually quite different kettle of fish - if not the opposite.

E.g. Belladonna cures scarlet fever - it is very unlikely that it would ever bring on scarlet fever. On the contrary - taken prophylactically, it is supposed to prevent it.

Kali bi. may cure diphtheria - it is very unlikely that it would ever bring on diphtheria.

To bring it back to the case on hand: Caul "cured" a case (or more) of retained placenta. It is very much open to speculation whether it would ever bring it on. It might instead prevent it.

Regards

Luise

Hi Luise and Sati

Discussions such as this always make me curious - so did a little investigating. Here is what I found re Caulophyllum:

In Synthesis <retained placenta> is credited to Boericke and Kent - but in RU to Knerr. In Knerr it is given the rating of a symptom that is verified by cures, a 3rd grade symptom. In the preface of Hering's Mat med of Caulo. he mentions that the only proving symptoms for Caulo are found in Hale, and were provided by Burt.

Looking at Allens Pure MM - there is no evidence of any female only symptoms, and it may be that the symptoms provided were from Burt himself, someone may know this. Therefore, it can only be conlcuded that that the uterine and labor information came from clinical use or previous use by non homoeopathic practitioners.

On looking at Hale, these are the relevant symptoms listed. Those with an asterisk are pathogenetic symptoms verified by cures. Those with a dot are clinical And, those with nothing are pathogenetic

Generative organs
* Sensation as if the uterus was congested, with fullness heaviness, and tension in hypogastric region.
* Spasmodic pains in the uterus, and various portions of the hypogastric region.

° Suppression of the menses, with spasms.
° Dysmenorrhoea.
° Menorrhagia, with threatened abortion.
° False pains during pregnancy.
° Prevention of premature labor.
° Deficient labor from rigidity of os uteri.
° Suppressed lochia.
° Retroversion of the uterus, causing paraplegia.
° Drawing in the groins. (Uterine ligaments.)
° Labor-like pains.
° Abortion, with little or no flooding.
° Gonorrhoea (?)
° Intermittent uterine contractions. (Secale causes continuous.)

Menses too soon. (Three days.)
Relaxation of the os uteri.
Profuse secretion of mucus from the vagina.
Increases the natural pains of labor.

-----------------------------------------------------

I can offer the following for the herbal use of Caulophyllum. This info is from Cook's Pysiomedical dispensatory, 1869 (Allens is 1879 and Hering, 1880). It seems that this is where the uterine uses has come from. The native American Indians may have passed this info along.

Best

Robyn



BLUE COHOSH, SQUAW ROOT, PAPPOOSE ROOT, BLUEBERRY

Synonym: Leontice Thalictroides, as now classified.

Properties and Uses: The root of this plant, as a popular parturient among the "medicine men" of the Indians. To Dr. Isaac Smith, of New York, is chiefly due its introduction to the profession. It is a moderate diffusive, stimulating and relaxing in about equal degrees, spending its main powers upon the nervous system. These qualities make it one of the very best of antispasmodics, to relieve nervous feebleness with irritability, as in crampings of the bowels, twitching of the muscles in typhoid and parturient cases, hysteria, painful menstruation, colic, etc. Its efficacy in these cases is remarkable; and it is also a valuable adjunct to other suitable agents in the treatment of puerperal convulsions, epilepsy, and chorea. It enjoys deserved reputation in neuralgic forms of rheumatism, especially that form which passes with some as chronic inflammation of the womb. It sustains the nervous system, but at the same time soothes it; and is of especial service in strengthening and relieving painful functional difficulties of the female generative organs. It is one of the most valuable of all parturients, when the uterine action is becoming weary; in which case it may be combined with the Composition Powder; or with cypripedium, and a very little capsicum (or bayberry) added when depression is considerable. It promotes diuresis apparently by sustaining the pelvic nerves; and in the same way strengthens the uterus in leucorrhea and insufficient menstruation; yet can not properly be classed as either a diuretic or emmenagogue. By the same kind of action, it is useful in weak kidneys, albuminous urine, chronic difficulties of the prostate, nervous restlessness during pregnancy, and previous to parturition to give tone and comfort to the uterus. For these several purposes, it is generally combined with other suitable agents, such as aralia racemosa, mitchella, uva ursi, convallaria, liriodendron, etc. The real value of this article in these varied connections, is not fully appreciated; and it is too often laid aside on the decidedly false impression that it is a stimulating emmenagogue of harmful proclivities. I commend it as one of the choicest nervines and antispasmodics of the Materia Medica. E. H. Lowe, M. D., of Sandwich, Illinois, tells me its antispasmodic virtues may be used to much advantage in asthma, especially in combination with diaphoretic relaxants. It is a good addition to hydrastis and myrica, as a wash to aphthous ulcers; to dioscorea and ginger for all colics; and may be used with prunus and nymphea on weak and irritable sores. It is rarely used in powder, but mostly by infusion. An infusion of the berries is said to be almost infallible for relieving persistent spasmodic vomiting.

Pharmaceutical Preparations: I. Infusion. Caulophyllum, half an ounce; boiling water, a pint. Infuse for half an hour in a covered vessel. In parturition and painful menstruation, a fluid ounce of this may be given every sixty or thirty minutes; in hysteria, rheumatism, and other more lingering maladies, one to two fluid ounces may be repeated at intervals of from four to six hours.

II. Compound Infusion. Caulophyllum and cypripedium, each, half an ounce; trillium, two drachms; myrica, one scruple; boiling water, twenty ounces. Digest for half an hour. This is a remarkably efficient parturient preparation, sustaining, but never overdoing the uterine action, quieting the nervous system, maintaining a steady outward circulation, and anticipating hemorrhage and after-pains. It is not appropriate when the vagina is dry , the os tineae rigid, and the uterus sensitive. Dose, half to a whole fluid ounce every half hour, especially in the latter stage of labor.

III. Tincture. Crushed caulophyllum, two ounces; diluted alcohol, one pint. Macerate for twelve days, and filter. Dose, one to two fluid drachms, three times a day. A Compound Tincture may be made from the ingredients of the above compound infusion, by macerating the drugs in twelve ounces of diluted alcohol. The dose would be from a half to a whole fluid drachm, in warm water, every hour or half hour, in parturition.

IV. Caulophyllin. This is prepared after the manner of cimicifugin. It varies from a light brown to a nearly white powder, slightly soluble in water, quite soluble in alcohol. It is used for the same general purposes as the root, but is most applicable to chronic cases. It has been commended in gonorrhea and spermatorrhea. Dose, half a grain to a grain, three or four times a day.

V. Extract. This is prepared after the manner of the hydro-alcoholic extracts. It may be used as a basis for pills, where a full antispasmodic action is desired; but I have never been satisfied with any preparation I have met.

Luise

as an aside to the last post, I discovered when looking at Hale, that he differentiates between primary and secondary symptoms - I recall that you were wanting to know if this had been done previously in any publications.


Robyn

Hi Robyn,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robyn as an aside to the last post, I discovered when looking at Hale, that he differentiates between primary and secondary symptoms - I recall that you were wanting to know if this had been done previously in any publications.

Does he say which of the symptoms he considers primary and which secondary?

I guess Bannerji's MM does not go any further yet than what I myself have - there it stops at Cantharis.

It would be most interesting what he has to say about it.

Regards

Luise

Hi Robyn.

Thank you!!!

This is something I had hoped all along that people on the list might do: check what I say, verify or falsify it - whatever may be the case - and pass their information along. Add additional information where they have it - my own resources are rather limited, sinde I do not have Radar or any of the other computer software.

Regards

Luise

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luise Does he say which of the symptoms he considers primary and which secondary?

yes, he designates with a (p) or (s)eg., Apoc-c - larynx, bronchi and chest
° Short, dry cough, with scanty expectoration. (s.)
° Loose, rattling cough, with oppression of the chest. (p.)

Lap-arc
Loose, rattling cough in children and aged persons, with inability to expectorate. (s.)
Dry cough, with dry pricking and soreness in the fauces. (p.)

Asclep - tub
Dark red, saturated urine. (s.)
Frequent passing of clear urine. (p.)

Atrop-pur
Chilliness, with cold skin, pulse feeble, action of the heart feeble, cold extremities. (s.)
It stimulates the action of the heart, causing the pulse to rise from 60 to 140, with flashes of heat, red-hot skin, dry mouth and throat, with throbbing all over; a kind of erethistic fever, with general ebulition of blood. (p.)

Podo-p
* Loss of appetite, or satiety from a small quantity of food, followed by nausea and vomiting. (s.)
h
etc......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luise I guess Bannerji's MM does not go any further yet than what I myself have - there it stops at Cantharis.

yes, so far it stops there, however, if you include the differential remedies he covers around 80 different remedies in various potencies. I am looking forward to the completion of the series. Will keep you informed.

By the way, maybe a small point, but his name is spelled with one n - Banerji.

Best

Robyn