Hoping someone has expert knowledge to share...

I've been on lithium carbonate for the most part of the last 25 years. Bipolar 1 and 2 run in my family and this is inherited. I've been under homeopathic care for the last 7 years, the last 5 with one "famous" homeopath, using basically one remedy, from low to ultra high C potency and recently LM. I have experienced much with this remedy, it even allows me to reduce and eliminate lithium BUT overall I am not right being off lithium, I'm unbalanced emotionally and physically. Plus, the remedy, a polychrest, has a wide range of other actions that causes disturbance and disruption along with positive effects. While it is a useful remedy, it certainly hasn't cured me and I've learned you can't pick and choose which actions of a the remedy you want to occur. Also, the management and use of lithium work differently than a remedy, you need to build up a certain blood level which takes weeks to become "settled". Changing dosage up/down causes mental instability until the blood level
settles. So, taking a remedy which has a faster action and reducing lithium is not pleasant since they act at different rates. And lithium dosage/usage is well documented while finding correct potency, dosage, frequency of a remedy is too individualistic and variable.

So, before I totally abandon classical homeopathy, I thought what could happen if I take the remedy lithium carbonicum? Tautologically speaking, it should counter the negative effects of lithium, but will it counter the postive effects too? While lithium carbonate is classified a drug, it's only a mineral compound. Lithium carbonicum is a proven remedy whose materia medica doesn't relate to bipolar/mania but some of the rubrics occur when taking lithium carbonate. Possibly/likely the proving did not include those who had a predisposition to bipolar thus no rubrics appeared or the remedy is useless for bipolar.

Since lithium the drug works so well for me, I'm wondering what to expect from lithium as remedy. Can it help me or cause a psychiatric hospitalization?? I've been catatonic and have had ECT shock years ago when first diagnosed and when going off lithiium pre-homeopathic treatment. It's a testament to classical homeopathy treatment that I was able to go off lithium and not have this severity occur again so I'm cautious. Though, in all honesty, I'm better on lithium and maybe my body is addicted in some way to it having used it so long. More concern is how many years I can stay on lithium before my kidneys decline or other side effects take hold. Can taking lithium carbonicum prevent those side effects, eliminate the need for lithium carbonate, enhance it's action or just complement it?

Susan

Hi Susan,

There have been reports that the highly diluted/potentized remedies may, in some cases, work just as well and on the same lines as the same substance in material doses.

I do believe that there was e.g. a clinical trial involving potentized anti-histamine for allergies. You might check in the net. If you do not find anything and are interested, I may have it as hard-copy (I do not remember where I read it - but if it is not in the net it would have to be in my collection of trials).

This is not homeopathy but allopathic use of potentised drugs, and it probably would not cure but alleviate, as the material drug does. But if it works it might save your kidneys.

Since you are off lithium at present, you might consider giving it a try - as an alternative to going back on the crude drug.

Just an idea.

Regards

Luise

==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

dear susan
my suggestion is ask your homeopath about the use of nosodes that relate to your constitutional remedy.Sometimes when the 'indicated' remedy does not complete the case a nosode can take you to the next level.
Perhaps this has already been done for you ,we on this forum dont know your entire 5yr history of remedy use.
Gina Tyler

You might want to consult with a nutritionist.
Here is a link to an article on lithium. I would not be concerned with side effects of lithium.
http://www.tahoma-clinic.com/lithium1.shtml
You can use homeopathy and nutrition together, along with your meds. Many people have taken small doses of lithium for years with no harm. (See the link above.)

Melanie

Tautology by definition is a treatment using a homoeopathic preparation of an allopathica of which the person under treatment has previously received a large coercive dose WITH suspected or apparently injurious results. This is in fact isopathy - treatment of disease by the causal agent. Not to be confused with homoeopathy.

I have found that the treatment of Bipolar states needs to have the genetic or familial trait that occurs addressed.
merrilee

blissgogo-hpy@yahoo.com wrote:
Hoping someone has expert knowledge to share...

I've been on lithium carbonate for the most part of the last 25 years. Bipolar 1 and 2 run in my family and this is inherited. I've been under homeopathic care for the last 7 years, the last 5 with one "famous" homeopath, using basically one remedy, from low to ultra high C potency and recently LM. I have experienced much with this remedy, it even allows me to reduce and eliminate lithium BUT overall I am not right being off lithium, I'm unbalanced emotionally and physically. Plus, the remedy, a polychrest, has a wide range of other actions that causes disturbance and disruption along with positive effects. While it is a useful remedy, it certainly hasn't cured me and I've learned you can't pick and choose which actions of a the remedy you want to occur. Also, the management and use of lithium work differently than a remedy, you need to build up a certain blood level which takes weeks to become "settled". Changing dosage up/down causes mental instability until the blood level
settles. So, taking a remedy which has a faster action and reducing lithium is not pleasant since they act at different rates. And lithium dosage/usage is well documented while finding correct potency, dosage, frequency of a remedy is too individualistic and variable.

So, before I totally abandon classical homeopathy, I thought what could happen if I take the remedy lithium carbonicum? Tautologically speaking, it should counter the negative effects of lithium, but will it counter the postive effects too? While lithium carbonate is classified a drug, it's only a mineral compound. Lithium carbonicum is a proven remedy whose materia medica doesn't relate to bipolar/mania but some of the rubrics occur when taking lithium carbonate. Possibly/likely the proving did not include those who had a predisposition to bipolar thus no rubrics appeared or the remedy is useless for bipolar.

Since lithium the drug works so well for me, I'm wondering what to expect from lithium as remedy. Can it help me or cause a psychiatric hospitalization?? I've been catatonic and have had ECT shock years ago when first diagnosed and when going off lithiium pre-homeopathic treatment. It's a testament to classical homeopathy treatment that I was able to go off lithium and not have this severity occur again so I'm cautious. Though, in all honesty, I'm better on lithium and maybe my body is addicted in some way to it having used it so long. More concern is how many years I can stay on lithium before my kidneys decline or other side effects take hold. Can taking lithium carbonicum prevent those side effects, eliminate the need for lithium carbonate, enhance it's action or just complement it?

Susan

Having been on lithium (a small dose: 900 mg per day divided into three doses, if I remember correctly) myself for more than 2 years very recently, I have one small caveat to Melanie's "I would not be concerned with side effects of lithium." I realize that the information below is not for everyone; it was however true of me and might be cause someone going on lithium to research the biggest problem I had with it.

Even a small dose of lithium can lower thyroid function so that you develop a hypothyroid condition, according to the literature (and my psychiatrist).

I developed mild hypothyroid on Effexor, and a considerably more severe one on lithium. I was told a number of times that I had to see an endocrinologist to get started on thyroid hormones.

I learned, best I could ferret it out, that once you go on medication your thyroid says to itself, "oh, well, I'm not needed any more." And sooner or later it just dries up and stops functioning. You then are stuck with the hormone for life.

As to H treatment of the problem: when I went to my then homeopathic practitioner hoping to get help with the hypothyroid problem, the practitioner told me the following,: "I have had pretty good success treating hyper-thyroid, but not a great deal when treating hypo-thyroid."

She accepted to try, but in fact, she was not able to raise my thyroid function. Because I resisted getting on the hormone, however, my thyroid took up its duties again when I went off lithium.

Let me repeat that I am not suggesting that course for anyone else: just sharing an experience.

All the very best to all of you,

Teresa

But if I remember right she said the remedy is also creating symptoms.... Sounds as tho it's "close" rather than simillimum? In which case things should clarify over time such that the more fully appropriate remedy becomes clear? (Susan--does your h'th understand that you are so frustrated, and what does s/he say about the new symptoms etc.?)

Shannon

Hi Teresa,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teresa Having been on lithium (a small dose: 900 mg per day divided into three doses, if I remember correctly) myself for more than 2 years very recently, I have one small caveat to Melanie's "I would not be concerned with side effects of lithium." I realize that the information below is not for everyone; it was however true of me and might be cause someone going on lithium to research the biggest problem I had with it.

Yes. I was surprised at Melanie's statement since I had heard otherwise, and I looked it up in the toxicology part of the official list of remedies here in Germany.

There are quite a few toxic side effects listed. For one thing it is embryo-toxic, so young women should make very sure not to get pregnant while they are taking it. A main danger is that it tends to build up - and I wonder whether the level can always be determined accurately, since it may not be all in the blood (this latter is not part of the toxicoloy in the book - it is my own idea)

Also I wonder whether the patients are alwas VERY emphatically told that they must eat a sodium-RICH diet while on lithium. It is so common that people eat a diet low in table salt, and for patients on lithium this is contra-indicated. My experience with doctors rather tends to whow that they themselves are often not aware of all those things about the drugs they prescribe.

Another caveat is that "diuretics" must be avoided. There are many herbs with diuretic effects - and people may not realize that their favorite teas may have such herbs in them. Nor may people prescribing herbs (e.g. for bladder or kidney or heart problems/support) be aware that they are contra-indicated for patients on lithium.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teresa Even a small dose of lithium can lower thyroid function so that you develop a hypothyroid condition, according to the literature (and my psychiatrist). I developed mild hypothyroid on Effexor, and a considerably more severe one on lithium. I was told a number of times that I had to see an endocrinologist to get started on thyroid hormones.

There is a work-around.

I myself have to take thyroid hormone (I am sort of relieved your homeopath said what she did - I had a very low opinion of my quality as a homeopath, since I never was able to cure that condition) and I found a way to keep the thyroid "interested".

I take enough hormone to have the peripheral values (T3 and T4) normal but the TSH high. That should mean that the thyroid is being driven to the top performance it can still perform. As long as the peripheral values - i.e. the amount of hormones in the blood - are normal, this should be ok.

The GP grumbles - but has to admit my logic:-)

Well - the pituitary could get overstressed -- so I am not really advocating that way. But for a limited time, to avoid the thyroid getting lazy, it might be ok.

Regards

Luise

http://www.healthyplace.com/medicati...um.htm#adverse
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/ibup_ad.htm
http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/23.html
http://www.parkinsons-information-ex...rugdb/073.html
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/lin...4.00272.x/abs/
http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharm.../DURALITH.html
http://www.whatmeds.com/meds/lithium.html

to list a few
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Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath