Martha said:

"Thank you LisaAnnan - your son's condition helped spur the interest in my
friend's case...so I appreciate the input...several of your son's experience
underscored my friend's situation too....it's been very interesting.
Martha"

Hi Martha,
It'd be interesting to hear the whole case to see what you came up with. I hope the Sulphur helps him. Will you keep us posted?
Best wishes!

Barbara said:
"Dear Lisa,

Thoroughly enjoyed your 'evocative' rendition of your son's
behaviour, but it put me in mind of a young child I treated
who used all sorts of 'power games' with her mum (food
issues, not stooling, etc.). Could it be this, rather than
'fixed ideas' ? Just a thought, as you described him as a
"minx". :-)"

Hi Barbara,
Yes, he can be manipulative (what person, adult or child isn't to some degree?), but it's not a huge feature in his case.

The nose-blowing thing was never a manipulation-thing. He's always resisted blowing his nose since he was a baby, toddler... When he was a baby and I'd try to suck out the mucous - he'd wail more than most babies. When a toddler, he simply ran away if he saw a tissue or the snot-sucker (lol, that thing was so handy when my babies were babies) - screaming, "NOOOOOOOOO blowwwwwww". But, yeh, he can be a little minx sometimes;).

I'll give you a couple of examples of his fixed ideas:
(for those who don't want to read the rest - press delete now:) ):

Fixed idea #1
He HAD to take peanut-butter-and-honey sandwiches to school e.v.e.r.y.d.a.y in his lunchbox - for two years straight. Refused to take anything else (if I tried something else, it would come home uneaten, and believe me, I tried many things!).

Fixed idea #2
Oh, did I mention he likes his peanut butter *creamy and smooth*? He wouldn't *touch* crunchy peanut butter (have no idea why......esp since he likes other foods that are crunchy!).

Actually - he USED to like his peanut butter creamy and smooth. That is until one fateful Summer in Greece two years ago. I made his usual sandwhich for lunch one day, knowing he would not want anything else having just arrived in a new place (fixed idea number 3; he doesn't like any change in his routine and we figured a familiar sandwich would help at lunch).
When he took a second bite - well, you woulda thought the world had come to an end. He patently refused to eat anymore. He sat there in tears, patheticly weeping while madly s-c-r-a-p-i-n-g the peanut butter off his tongue, wiping it on his plate. And, we couldn't figure out what the heck was going on!

Once he calmed down a little he tearfully said he didn't like *crunchy*.
Sigh.
So, we showed him the jar (he could read) where it said SMOOTH and CREAMY.
Oh, nooooo, Mummy, <sniffle sniffle> I tasssssssted a c-r-u-n-c-h-y bit <more tears> as he points at the undeciperable, slimy mess on his plate as evidence. <sniffle sniffle>

So each of us (including our daughter), scratched ours heads, stifling grins and laughter at the sight of utter irrationality, and duly tasted the peanut butter. Sure enough <gulp> there were some - albeit VERY SMALL crunchy bits. Not so big as you'd find in proper cruncy peanut butter, but nevertheless it wasn't s.m.o.o.t.h..

That's it. End of story. I've tried several times to offer him his old 'love' for lunch and he turns his nose up at it. He's never touched peanut butter again. Not once. (fixed idea number 4) [incidentally, it didn't put him off honey - go figure]

This is only ONE very minor example of his fixed idea thing. There are many others.

Moral of the story?
Don't buy smooth peanut butter in Greece expecting not to find any crunchy bits in it;). (just kidding)

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa Fixed idea #2

Hi Lisa,

Desire for creamy things:

> Creamy! [sen] desires: hura, 2lac-lup.204, puls.221, 3Sul-i.223


Along with the tremendous vehement fixed idea (s), then we could use this rubric:

Monomania: absin.102, acon.36, agath-a., aids, alco.10, ambr., anac., 2anan.8, ars.15, aur.5, aur-m.46, bell., 3Camph.8, caps., carb-v., carc., cham., chin., cic.5, cocc., con., croc., cupr., dros., hell., 2hyos.8, ign.5, ignis194, iod., 2lac-ac., lach.8, lap-c-b.188, lyc.214, mag-c., mag-sil.209, malv., meli., merc.20, nat-sil.209, nux-m., oeno.25, oxyt.51, 3Phos.8, plat.102, plb.20, posit., prun-c., puls., querc-cyn., rhus-t., sil.5, sil-met.209, stann.11, stram.20, sulph.8, tarent.102, thuj.214, ubul., verat., wh-ch-b.

Elimination: puls.

And adding in more info:

--Creamy! [sen] desires (4) : hura, lac-lup., puls., Sul-i.

--Monomania (60) : absin., acon., agath-a., aids, alco., ambr., anac., anan., ars., aur., aur-m., bell., Camph., caps., carb-v., carc., cham., chin., cic., cocc., con., croc., cupr., dros., hell., hyos., ign., ignis, iod., lac-ac., lach., lap-c-b., lyc., mag-c., mag-sil., malv., meli., merc., nat-sil., nux-m., oeno., oxyt., Phos., plat., plb., posit., prun-c., puls., querc-cyn., rhus-t., sil., sil-met., stann., stram., sulph., tarent., thuj., ubul., verat., wh-ch-b.

--MIND; FASTIDIOUS (K42, SRI-472, G33) (52) : alum., anac., androc., arg-n., ars., asar., aur., aur-ar., bani-c., bar-ar., bufo, calc-p., calc-sil., cand-a., Carc., con., cupr., cupr-acet., falco-p., graph., haliae-lc., iod., kali-ar., kali-bi., kali-c., lac-ac., lac-c., lac-eq., lac-h., lepro., lob., med., morg-g., nat-ar., nat-c., nat-m., nat-p., nat-s., nux-v., oro-ac., oscilloc., phos., pip-m., plat., plb., Puls., sep., sil., sol, sulph., teucr., thuj.

--GENERALITIES; FOOD and drinks; peanut butter, desires (2) : puls., tub.

elimination: puls

I would imagine you have already tried Puls. But if not, there you have it.

Another idea is Kali-sulph (pulsatilla alter ego) which is RIGID (kali). Kali sulph will have other confirmatories however.

You will need other legs of the stool of course in order to use any rx with
confidence.

The phobia about blowing nose must have something inherent that makes the case, if we only had extant data on that. Tuberculinum also desires PB, so that might be the wild card in the case---the wide-spectrum nosode may be needed.....

Anyway, just more ideas.

Best, A

Hi Andy,

Thanks for going to all that trouble. But, I'm not seeking any help for his case!! He's got a really good homeopath under whose treatment he's done very well for the last 4 years.

Incidentally, he doesn't generally like 'creamy' things. It was only the peanut butter!! So I would not have used that rubric and I doubt my homeopath did either. The thing that stood out was that this was a fixed idea -- and he went from THAT fixed idea to another....
Monomania and fastidious have been used;)....

As I said earlier - he's done well on Silica. And, more recently he's required (and done very well on) Sulph and Puls as intercurrents. Currently, he's back on Silica and he's humming along really well.
Best wishes - Lisa

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Hi Andy,
I just saw your other posts (after I sent my other reply). I've started a new thread - so as not to hijack Martha's thread any further.

I appreciate the time you took in looking at some of the things I posted about my son, but it's by no means the whole case. And, he really is doing very well since under treatment with our homeopath (of 4 yrs). As I said in my other reply/post - I'm not seeking help for his case.

But, I wanted to address/discuss a couple of points about things you said, just out of interest:

Andy said:
"The phobia about blowing nose must have something inherent that makes the case, if we only had extant data on that. "

There was no PHOBIA, as such, about blowing his nose. He simply didn't like the sensation he described about his eyes AND the unpleasant sensation when he actually blew it. He seemed to have difficulty closing off certain parts of his airway sufficiently to build pressure to blow it properly. So it always ended up with a ppffffffft (more than the average blow!); a rather noisy and extremely 'tickly' (not pleasant) blow which was uncomfortable to him.)

Because of his tendency toward fixed ideas - he just got it into his head *early on* that he wouldn't blow his nose;). AND, he would get himself worked up if pressured to do it.
I must stress, though: CURRENTLY, this is improved. Although he still doesn't like it - he WILL blow now when he's really congested (thankfully this isn't too often). But he's certainly not afraid.

I'm curious, would you still consider this a disease symptom? And would you consider it a phobia?

Andy also said:
"And how did the worms get "resolved" when he did have them? By some biochemical drug, no doubt, and the susceptibility is not changed one iota, so he may have worms again or at least a ghost of the same syndrome which involved the nose picking, though has not necessarily been checked."

He was never treated with biochemical drugs for the worms.
He was, however, treated homeopathically. Additionally, we used vaseline (infused with cloves of garlic - very effective!!) on his bottom at night when the worms were present, to smother them and prevent them from laying eggs at night.

He only had worms once more after that initial first time (and it was shortly thereafter). He no longer seems to be susceptible to worms since he's not had them for over three years;)!
Incidentally, he did dig in his nose a lot WHEN he had worms -- it definitely was a clue to what was going on at the time.


Andy also said:
"Merc--failure to thrive, worm complaints, fixed ideas,"

Failure to thrive and fixed ideas are also found under Silica;). I wonder if worms are (no time to look it up at the moment) - but I have a hunch they are...

Andy also said:
"Was hay fever or something else involving nose suppressed earlier in life, perhaps unwittingly by some mild drug? Just ideas. "

Nope. He's never been treated allopathically - other than some paracetamol early on (it wasn't very many times, thankfully).
He's never had hay fever.
The only thing he had was a few vaccines at the beginning but we stopped vaccinating when he was 2 months old - once I had educated myself and was confident it was the best thing for him. (He had bcg, hepb, dpt - and NONE of the boosters. never had MMR or any of the others)

We have never used suppressive means - i.e. we don't use topical creams, salves, lotions - never have, thankfully.

And, I'm sure my homeopath already took the vaccines into account 4 yrs ago;).

Andy also said:
"My sense is that simill not been found, still zig-zagging in this case."

It's difficult without being privvy to the whole case. Sorry I can't post it all...but....

Just for kicks -- since treatment here are *some* of his improvements, off the top of my head (not exhaustive by any means):

-No longer digs in his nose. Hi might pick the occasional booger, but he's 7 yrs old and if there's a fat one in there, well - let's say his fastidious nature propels him to 'clean' it out. But he definitely does NOT walk around picking or digging in his nose all the time anymore.
We have nice family photos of him now :-).

-While he still doesn't like to blow his nose, he WILL blow it with some encouragement (whereas before he would NOT at any cost - and lots of tears/hysteria if coaxed).

-Epileptic-type seizures since Jan 2001- GONE - not once since! (thank God!)

-aversion to milk is gone. He occasionally asks for some with his biscuits. (not that I was worried about this...)

-toenails used to grow concave - from birth. Not anymore - they are normal now! This improved within weeks after his first prescription under our current homeopath.

-Refusal to eat - gone within weeks after initial remedy/treatment! Therefore, thriving now!! Growing well, gaining weight, etc. This was one of the most troublesome/worrying when he was young.

-Tummy aches completely gone; he used to get them after eating and *sometimes* after drinking (if he drank it too fast and it was too cold).

-Teeth are stronger than ever before. Some of his milk teeth (mostly front) were terrible; some broke off leaving the root which had to be pulled to get the rest out. His secondary teeth are very strong now; none have broken and all are growing well. Had a blip of cavitites in the last year, but that seems to be okay now (no further cavities).

-STINKY feet - gone! (thank God! they were DREADFULLY SMELLY from the time he was walking at 9mos)

-fear of robbers (<night) - gone. This has creeped up a few times (usually when he has an acute flare up of psora).

-Fixed ideas MUCH better. He's far less rigid than he used to be. No, he still won't touch peanut butter, but his diet is really good and he's thriving.
While compared to other people, he's less flexible in certain areas-- he's definitely more flexible than he used to be. Now he would consider peanut butter biscuits/cookies, whereas before - he would say "No, it's got peanut butter in it." So, I don't see this as some outstanding disease symptom that needs to be wiped out or prescribed on currently. If it becomes pathological again - then it's definitely considered.

This brings something up that I've been thinking about.
When is a personality trait/tendency considered a disease symptom to prescribe on?
My understanding is that we can't cure personality because personality is not disease. When a personality trait becomes pathological, then we need to take it into consideration and decide if it's a decisive symptom/feature in the case with which to find a remedy.

As regards my son: This is his nature (fastidious, tendency toward fixed ideas, etc) and as long as it's not wreaking havoc in his life (out of balance) - then it's NOT something to consider as a disease-symptom to prescribe on. That's my understanding.

There's lots more.....but I've posted what I could remember off the top of my head.

He may need other intercurrent remedies..... Thuja, Puls, and Sulph are related to Sil. So far, he's needed Sulph and Puls and both have been tremendously effective.

Thanks for the thought-provoking discussion.
Lisa :)

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Hi again Lisa,

I read this with great amusement. What a little character he is. :-) Probably not as much fun to deal with on a day-to-day basis tho' I guess !

Two thoughts as I was reading (not checked out), but I think it was Morrison who mentioned a desire for Peanut Butter is very Pulsatilla, which is not active now, but also Tub. On reading, I felt he was quite Silica (cannot back that up!!). The other thought was Sycotic Co (I think), which I believe is somewhere in the repertory under "fussy or faddy eater". Also Nat.mur. doesn't like their food 'messed around' (either Coulter or Bailey noted).
Andy ????! :-)

I can only find this :

GENERALITIES; FOOD and drinks; desires alternating with aversions, in children (1) carc

But that is not what is actually what is happening here - he had 'an event' with the Peanut Butter! He probably felt cheated - who can blame him; nothing worse than 'bits' when yer least expecting 'em ! Does he really need treating ??? He'll grow out of the nose-blowing thingy - but maybe needs help with being chased around with a bogey/booger sucking applicance !! I'd be on my heels too .... ;-)

Best wishes, Barbara

Barbara said:
Hi Barbara,

He is a character. Actually, he's quite likeable and fairly easy when he's in good form. But, it's easy to see when this child needs a remedy! He goes from being easy going, considerate, etc - to crying about any little frustration (I mean anything!), taking offense easily, etc. Just goes to pieces in many ways; mentally, physically and emotionally. So, yeh, those times are not so pleasant....one needs a healthy dose of patience and compassion. Not always in full supply, but we do our best;).



Well, he's done really well on Silica.

I don't think Nat Mur has really ever been indicated in his case.

What is 'Sycotic Co"?

He's not really a fussy eater.
He'll try anything he hasn't eaten before. His diet is good - varied, and healthy.
The peanut butter thing is not typical. He replaced peanut butter with another favourite-food because he 'had' to (i.e. he hates it coz those darned crunchy bits spoiled it for him - in his mind)

The problem (in the past) that really concerned us was lack of eating. He just couldn't eat. Eating a morsel then nothing more - accompanied by pain in his stomach which always seemed to come on after he ate very little (no particular food..just food). These symptoms were much more pronounced when he had worms. This is not a problem anymore, thankfully.

He had Tub ages ago. It brought out some very interesting symptoms - and I can't recall everything at the moment. This was early days in homeopathy for me. But, I took photos of him at the time because the skin symptoms were SO weird! Shortly after that we began treatment with our current homeopath who prescribed Silica. His case was the most remarkable out of all of us, in terms of improvement.

It's been interesting to watch his case progress for 4 years - the vast improvements in his health are nothing short of amazing (the seizures, and failure to thrive, etc).


I agree -- it wasn't desires alternating with aversions. It's funny how subtle the differences can be when we weigh up which rubrics really apply.

Those damned crunchy bits did break up a sound love affair;). The look of betrayal on his face that day, I'll never forget it! He was shattered (while we were amused when we figured out what was going on, bless him).

Sometimes, tho rarely, (and I'm not kidding, lol) he longingly looks at the peanut butter jar, but when I ask him if he's wanting some he emphatically shakes his head and says he was only daydreaming (of a long lost love? lol - nah, he's probably just tired, pftttttt).

I think he's in good hands. When symptoms come up that are persistent - showing a pattern of disease that's come active - then he gets treatment. Usually Silica has been indicated, while Puls and Sulph have come up on occasion. Oh, and once he had Hepar Sulph a couple of years back, for an acute.

I also think he'll grow out of the nose-blowing thing. I also see him toughening up as he grows up; becoming less over-sensitive, less tearful, less frustrated - and more confident, etc.

Hey, we don't chase him with the booger schnopper! (that's what we used to call it..it's an aspirator bulb looking thing we got from the hospital). We only used the 'schnopper' when he was an infant - and only sparingly because we could see it distressed him so much, bless him.

Cheers -
Lisa :)

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbara Quote: Two thoughts as I was reading (not checked out), but I think it was Morrison who mentioned a desire for Peanut Butter is very Pulsatilla, which is not active now, but also Tub. On reading, I felt he was quite Silica (cannot back that up!!). The other thought was Sycotic Co (I think), which I believe is somewhere in the repertory under "fussy or faddy eater". Also Nat.mur. doesn't like their food 'messed around' (either Coulter or Bailey noted). Andy ????! :-) I can only find this :

Barbara always has good ideas :-). Not sure the ref on food fastidiousness. There is this in Refworks:

Fastidious [sen] food: 2ars.231, chin., cina155, 3Epip.231, graph., hell., 2nux-m.231, 2sil.231, sol, 3Syph.231

But that is only one way of saying it.

Fussy [sen] food: anh., atra-r., 3Lac-f.188, lat-h., nux-v., tub.

As far as aversion to crunchy food, here is a stab at that sx:

Mastication [sen] agg: 3Aloe31, arg.36, arn.36, bell.22, bism.11, bry.8, chin.10, cocc.36, euph.8, graph.10, kali-p.58, kalm.36, spig.11

He also seems very unable to express/articulate his feelings in logical form (why does he not like crunchy; and (though I missed most of thread)--why he does not blow his nose). Aside from what I may have wrong here because did not read whole thread, not being able to express feelings is a characteristic of Carcinosin. But Nat-m of course also has that in spades. Sulphur is explosive and vehement about expressing feelings, but it would seem can do it logically, which unless I am wrong, he cannot--but maybe that a function of his age... But sulph has the actual sx clinically observed, as Robyn posted. WHY does he not like crunchy PB, not like to blow nose? This is a case where aggressive case taking until answer found could be helpful (if it leads to a result without agg this little client). Sure would be nice to hear the followup on this case after the correct rx.

Robyn had posted the following which suggest nat-m or sulph based on the peculiar which I assume has been elicited about air pushed out the tear duct. Nat-m is a principle complement of Pulsatilla, and given the PB connection, maybe that is going to end up being the rx. But Tub, Carc, another nosode or a bowel nosode also seem like good rx to at least keep in mind in a case without otherwise definite indications in the information we have been given. Maybe tub out ahead as a nosode because it craves PB and this was so very pronounced. But I am speculating. Need other confirmatories to make a stool one can sit on. I really like Kris' mechanical/anatomical description which seems to well explain the situation. Robyn managed to find the particular symptom in our amazing literature. Herscu finds that the sneeze reflex or some sort of nasal pneumatic challenge is a peculiar of sulphur. Hard not to start with an rx that actually has had the air in the eyes phenomenon and/or phobia about nose blowing. Nice if can make it all fit together as a case. But maybe the peculiar will arbit the choice, as this is a patho-mechanical peculiar with little data on how widespread it might be in the materia medica.

Best,
A

> What is 'Sycotic Co"?


A .32 second Google search would indicate that it one of the Bach/Patterson bowel nosodes...

Hi Lisa,

Glad to hear he's doing well under a good homeopath - I guess the "minx" quality must come under the Tub. Lovely mix. :-)

Best wishes, Barbara