Dear lists:
My grandparents came to the United States during the Eastern European migration at the turn of the 20th century. They were looking for a better life. They were escaping the despotic rule of Russia and Poland. They did not care that their names were changed when they came to Ellis Island. They were now Americans. My grandfather, his command of the English language always marginal, raised the stars and stripes on every national holiday. Their children struggled to build a life for themselves. They were political activists during the 1930s, which had them under the spotlight of the McCarthy era when the 1950s came around. My father quit his teaching job rather than "name names" of those he knew in earlier days.

McCarthyism ended when, in the middle of a rant during the Army-McCarthy hearings, lawyer Joseph Welch looked at Senator McCarthy and said, "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" And, with that one statement the demigod was burst.

I grew up in a comfortable America-- the one of spacious skies with amber waves of grain. Being a child in the 1940s and 1950s was wonderful.

And now I sit in New Zealand as a cabal of evil-minded people with a puppet named Bush at the head take the country away from the ideal of what America is supposed to be. Where is Joseph Welch now? And what is even sadder is that so many people who are or will be the victims of Bush's policies are from the bottom of the social scale-- and seem to have voted for him. Fascism has come to America wrapped in the guise of patriotism-- as it always does.

The wonderful 200 year experiment of republicanism, democracy, and freedom has drawn to a close. I mourn for my country.

And I am heartfelt for those on this list who are in countries like Iran who will undoubtedly be the target of the unseen horrors of war and stupidity that will be aimed at you in the next few years.


JW

dear JW,

I know what you wrote and what I am writing is clear off topic. hope jon haworh allows this to reach you and others. what I am writing does concern healing and I think that makes it relevant.

JW - all I can say and all I can do, far away in india - is to mentally share your pain and hold your hands saying "I understand".

My understanding of american politics is limited to what the media feeds me and the media works on rhetoric, sensationalism and "news".

for all those on the list american or not. republican or democrat. muslims or muslim haters. I have 2 things to say. If you feel that it is important or rather very important - please think over it deeply, very deeply and do carry the message to all who care to listen.

1) If george bush or any other american or anyone else thinks that a war whether in afghanistan or in iraq or any where else) can end terrorism, then he is wrong. if anyone thinks that killing osama bin laden or for that matter ALL the terrorists (even if that was possible) will end this reign of terror - then he is wrong. sirs, it is important to understand that the mad fanatics terrorists) and their patrons are benefited with anger, hatred and alienation, that these wars and killings generate. one osama dies and a million are born. how will bush end this ? . I read a newspaper report that said that osama bin laden wants bush to be re elected. and I think that makes sense. bush's policies (and even earlier american policies) have generated an image that america is anti muslim - anti islam and this fire of deep anger against america will work as recruiting fields for the talibaans and al kaidas. you kill 1 and 100 come up to take revenge....this will never stop. I wonder why the bible readers who support bush cannot see this. I wonder why whole america did not see this.

2) those fanatic muslims or fanatic hindus or all other fanatics - don't you understand that the best and highest religion is love and compassion and purity of the mind ?. whether you believe in dhamma or dharma or bhagwan or jehovah or god or allah or whatever... how is killing of a fellow human being justified ?. my blood, your blood, the blood of osama bin laden, the blood of the christ....it's same blood.

it is bloody foolishness and outright madness to wage wars / killings in the name of religion. unfortunately, in the present and in the past, people of almost all faiths have indulged in this mindless game.

to me to be "born again" and to convert is from anger and aversion to love and compassion, from darkness to light.

the origin of all this mess is right within us - the seeds of insecurity, hatred, fear, anger and animosity that we have within us. it is this inner turmoil that collectively expresses itself as riots, killings, wars and terrorism. If I hate my fellow brothers and sisters on this list, if I behave badly with my family....I am contributing to terrorism.

osama bin laden, 9/11, vietnam, bush's policies and his victory....all has it's seeds within us - with in me. I hold myself responsible for what is happening. all of us are responsible.

only a deep fundamental change within every individual can change things.

dr manish agarwala

Mourn for YOUR country? I thought you lived in NZ?
Were you there in the US? Did you vote?
Sorry I don't buy this sentimental bull****

Simon

I feel exactly as you do Julian........and had long conversation with one friend in the US .......same sentiments. I am SICK. We are past the point of no return.

And yes, I am not even one of the people who will suffer the most. Compassion is gone from 1/2 of the US. The rest of the world will continue to suffer and it will be even worse.

I am heartsick (something told me to leave the US in October of 2000 - I soon saw why, but that hasn't kept me from trying to make a difference to save her and others. What a waste. All based on lies and fear invented to make money and have power

Sheri

I apologize to the world that *my* country re-elected Dubya, as I hung my head in apology four years ago when he was first *elected*. It is beyond my comprehension that this could possibly have happened. I'm embarrassed and ashamed of the level of intelligence of the American people. There really is no hope. And it will get worse. This evil empire stands to appoint as many as four Supreme Court Justices. That is terrifying.

Thank you, JW, for saying it so eloquently.

Georgianna

Julian - This is the most off topic it has ever been. Certainly, you must realize that the world is not always as one may see it. Unlike you, I have not left the United States. I am still here. Believe it or not, there are those of us who see things completely opposite from the way you have portrayed them. With your comments, you would have the world believe that we are somehow less intelligent, less aware, less human, less concerned, less kind and less the citizen than those you support. I consider your attitude condescending, arrogant and clearly uninformed. You mention the people of Iran. Yes, pity those poor people who yearn for freedom but, whose lives and liberty have been hijacked by a group of terrorists equal to and supportive of Afghanistan's horrid Taliban. This is the group who brought untold misery and suffering to their country and who gave refuge and support to the coward who planned and arranged the destruction of the twin towers in NY City and the murder of more than 3,00 people as well as the destruction of American and other national embassies, the murder of American servicemen and citizens and other horrible crimes. Why do you not criticize these cowards and the Taliban, who led women out to soccer stadiums to be shot in the head in front of cheering crowds for the crime of going in public without their faces veiled and for daring to question the superiority and absolute control of the radical religionists who had enslaved them. Those vile terrorists are EXACTLY the same as the cowardly fanatics in Iran who seek to do the same to women and men who question their absolute authority. How many women have been murdered in Iran for the crime of disgracing their male relatives by daring to love a man to whom their authority has not consented. How dare you question the United States, the last nation to keep New Zealand, Europe, Asia and the rest of the world as FREE as they currently are. Keep it up. When the United States is gone, due to the workings of the hypocritical Hollywood elite and the vile, lying michael moore and the horrid den of iniquity and thievery that calls itself the united nations, then, you will know TERROR. You and the rest of the overly and pretentiously intellectual class, you nattering nabobs of negativism, you whiners and cowardly appeasers of murderers, haters and enslavers of women will meet yourselves soon when there is no one left to protect you and your rabid, hateful and irrational speech. Remember, it was your ancestors in this same elite "intellectual" class via the spineless Neville Chamberlain in the 1930's who gave much of Europe to Hitler in the hope of appeasing him. These who were too cowardly to fight owe their very existence to the intervention and the sacrifice of the United States, then and now because without us, Hitler would have DESTROYED you all. Strangely, you are not wise enough to see that the evil then IS the evil today. It has changed its face, its nationality and its tactics but, IT IS THE SAME EVIL. Why do you work so hard to support it? Indeed, those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it and repeat it you will if you are successful in destroying the United States. Look who is on your side and look at the language you all use. You are all so transparent but, ironically so many do not have the ability to see through you. Sadly, because you choose to travel the road you have, war and destruction will continue even though you claim that you are seeking the opposite. Learn your history. Grow up. Learn to be positive and do not rely on your cowardly and destructive negativism. Stop being a tool of evil. I have experienced the ignorance, intolerance, hypocrisy and hatred of the rabid left for so long and have watched as it has infilitrated into all areas and levels of humanity. Your arrogance and conceit is unbecoming. How dare you question the ability of the American voter to discern correctly. You are not an American. I am an American. You have left my country. Please keep your ignorant opinions about America off of this list. We who do not see things as you do are not less than you - We are more. We are the workers, the producers, the warriors and the keepers of the peace. You and those like you produce nothing but disharmony, dissension, chaos and war. Please let us leave this list to the study of homeopathy lest everyone else find it necessary to weigh in with their opinion on this topic - a topic which this list is not prepared to handle and which may cause it to unravel and end. Is this your goal as well?

I remain unimpressed by your pretentious and rabid sophistry. Open your mind and learn something new.

ALLEN CONIGLIO

Beautifully said, and here I sit with 49 percent of my countrymen, mourning a lost America.

THE PROVING HAS BEGUN........

Rubrics??????

nice to know that you understand, sheri.

jon haworth will probably throw out this off list thread - but anyway we could connect for some time and share the pain.

dr manish agarwala

dear georgianna,

nice to find understanding americans like you and sheri here on the list.

manish