dear david little and others experienced with LMs,

I would like to discuss the use of LM potency (50 millesimal) by olfaction.

my question is :- is it advisable to use LM *only* by olfaction ?
if the glasses / spoon / water is not needed - the patient compliance becomes easier and better.

I have the following comments / questions / observations in this context :-

if one looks at the book on 50 millesimals by dr harimohun chowdhury - he makes the following observations about use LMs by olfaction:-

- he mentions olfaction for LM9 and above.
(do you find that you need to give LMs by olfaction - LM9 and above ?
does the need of olfaction arise in most of your cases, when you use the higher LMs ?)

- he (indirectly) mentions that the time duration of action of the remedy is shorter with olfaction vs with dilution. [so can we give all potencies by olfaction ? the only difference will be more frequent repetition as compared to the dilution. this will also mean that we can adjust the frequency as per the sensitivity of the patient. ]

- he mentions curing severe acute symptoms with LM1 olfaction.(2 cases) he mentions one case where a single olfaction of merc sol LM1 was sufficient to cover the whole episode. he does not label these patients as hyper sensitive ones.
(so olfaction does work well. even in acutes. even in LM1. even for average sensitivity ? is it so ? so why not give all LM potencies, to all patients by olfaction only ? thus, the glasses and the water will not be necessary)

- he mention curing a very chronic case with only LM olfactions. the patient was hypersensitive.

- he mentions the need of using LMs, by olfaction for the sensitives and the hyper sensitives. (so we cannot get away from olfactions ? is it so ? )

so why not use LMs by way of olfaction only ?. the LMs do work by way of olfaction both for acutes and the chronic, even in LM1. again, it might be necassary to use the olfaction way for higher LMs. so why not use the olfactions alone for all LM potencies, for all patients?

in case it is felt that the decision is or should be individualised ie based on the sensitivity of the patient ( 1:1000 scale as per hahnemann) - then since the olfaction approach represents the higher (sensitive) end of the scale, tending towards 1000 (and even 1000+), the use of LMs as per olfaction should make more sense. to make the dose size smaller, for the sensitives - we use more dilution glasses - here the dose size is already small. again, it is so easy to make the dose a bit more strong / gross. all we need is to increase the length of the inhalation (say a deep long breath) for the people with lower sensitivities. the time interval between 2 olfactions may also be adjsuted, as needed, as per the case and the sensitivity. no next olfaction as long as the effect of the previous one lasts. that makes it so easy, isn't it ?

is this adjustment not far simpler and easier on the part of the patient and the physician - compared to the dilution glass approach ? the dilution glasses need glass / water / stirring / more glasses for futher dilution / adjsutement of :- amount of remedy and the amount of the solution to be taken / no of strokes / size of the the remedy bottle / size of the solution etc. etc etc.....so many variables.
here there are *maximum * 3 variables at each potency level - 1) length of inhalation 2) time interval between two olfactions 3) no of strokes.
(I think it will be only 1 variable for most of the cases - the time interval.
the length of the inhalation may be kept at 1 or 2 second on an average and the no of strokes 10. dr harimohum chowdhury advised 1 second. this makes the posology so easy)

dr chowdhury used only water (without alcohol) for the ultra ultra sensitive chronic case. I feel that more finer adjustment is possible for the super hypersensitives by
a) avoiding alcohol or adjusting the alcohol - water ratio
b) increasing the vial size and the air gap. dr chowdhury used the 1 dram vial filled 2/3 with alcohol and which contained a single LM poppy seed globule (dissolved in a drop of water first).
c) alcohol strength adjustment.
I think some reserach can be done in this field.

I feel that from the most gross to the ultra ultra ultra sensitives can be handled very easily with a single approach - that is olfaction. thus we have the benefit of the advanced methods of hahnemann (LMs) and we do not need the water / glass adjustment, something which makes LMs a bit unpopular.

I found the following info / comments on david little's website (my words, not quote unquote) -

- the olfaction approach may be necessary for those who are more sensitive.
(david ofthen quotes the hahnemannian sensitivity scale when discussing the posology / dose size adjustment)

- the length of the breath ie time duration of inhalation factor for olfaction ( I found this only on david's website and have tested it on myself. makes a lot of sense. dr harimohun does not talk about this - in any of his books / writings / case books. I don't know whether hahnemann has mentioned this. or is it david little's experience ? he may be able to tell me).

- the paris case books :- hahnemann gave single doses of olfaction and waited upto a week....there is no reason why the olfaction dose be considered smaller or weaker than the liquid dilution dose or be repeated more frequently....
(so olfaction does work and work very deeply and quite long. is it so ?.
1 week is quite long. what was the LM potency for which the founder waited for 1 week ? what was the length of the olfaction (in seconds) and what was the vial size / alcohol strength used ? I hope david little enlightens me on this. )

- most important info :-
hahnemann did give LMs *only by olfaction* for some time and then the founder finally settled on the liquid dilution approach as *the median dose*.
(this is the most important info on this topic that I found on davids's website and I have thought and experimented with LM olfactions, before writing this post. more on my experience below)

- dr andre saine's comments on LMs have attracted a lot of controversy.
however, he makes interesting comments about olfaction. he mentions that
the olfactions go "deeper". (his comment was for olfaction of centesimals, however)

hahnemmna's chronic diseases (CD) -
vetearn homeopath late dr t s iyer quotes from hanemann's CD and writes :-
" the irritability of the patient may also be calmed by directing him to smell a globule moistened with the highest potency of the homeopathic medicine. by smelling of the medicine, it's influence may be communicated to the patient in any degree. by increasing the number of inspirations the power of the medicine steadily increases "

well the paris case books and the 6th organon post dates the CD.
I am remembering julian winston here. he could enlighten me on several things. when H wrote the CD, he meant the centesimals to be used as olfaction. again, what was H's "highest potency" when he wrote the CD ?
it could not have been above 200 C, of course. but was it closer to 30 or 50 C ? can david / JW tell me about this ?. anyway it is clear that H used the LM 1 after 30C failed and all the LMs (and 198 / 199/ 200 C) were part of H's higher potencies.
I am not interested in bringing up the use of olfactions for centesimals here nor in discussing the use of the "highest potency" to calm irritabilty etc. this is a separate topic which I would like to discuss later. I wish to focus on the use of LMs by olfaction only. I quoted this to collect all olfaction related Hahnemann's views at one place. I found the following 2 things very interesting :-

....it's influence may be communicated to the patient in any degree.

....by increasing the number of inspirations the power of the medicine steadily increases ( so did david little get the length of breath idea from the CD ?)

my experience -
I consider myself on the sensitive side (1000+++) and I have tried olfactions of the highest centesimals (CM) on myself. I had read (was it allen's encyclopedia ?) that a prover felt the symptoms of syph (was it 10M or CM ?) for 15 minutes or so. I became interested - I have tried smelling the CM of 2 remedies and have done the olfaction proving of several remedies in LM potencies (LM 1, 2, 3, 4). also freak experiences with LM6, 10, 20.

I have felt the effects for upto 21 days on myself.

I have tried the olfactions on a few patients of average sensitivity and my finding is that the olfactions seem to work for all potencies and even for those with average sensitivity.

I have not worked with a sufficient no. of patients with a longer time and so I am unable to pass a judgement at the moment on this issue. however, I do find the *only olfaction* approach very promising. it works quite long and quite deeply. that's all I can say at the moment.

with whatever little experience I have, I found that when the olfactions did not seem to work, irrespective of the sensitivity of the patient, the reason was that the remedy selection was not perfectly homoepathic and not the olfaction. I found the olfaction works fine, when the simlimum is perfect and that it is in no way a weak dose!.
if the remedy is wrong and/or the potency high - expect aggravations !

LMs are Hahneman's advanced system. the problems associated with the very high centesimals are avoided by using the LMs. does gving the LMs by olfaction makes things smoother and better and more patient / physican compliant ? I put this question to you and look forward to a more *experiential* discussion rather than theoretical or historical.
(however, the importance of the theory / history cannot be underestimated.)

I plan to continue my observations and - I look fwd to hear your views / comments / experience.

after all - we learn and grow together as a community.

best regards,
dr manish agarwala

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish I would like to discuss the use of LM potency (50 millesimal) by olfaction. My question is :- is it advisable to use LM *only* by olfaction ?

Hahnemann tended to use olfaction in single doses followed by placebo for around 1 week or more. Sometimes, however, he used olfaction in the series of doses. I have not found it necessary to give the higher LM potencies in olfaction. In some cases were I was a gentle, deep acting dose or am finishing off a case I will give olfaction. I noticed that when Hahnemann was finishing off some cases he would use olfaction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish ...can we give all potencies by olfaction ? the only difference will be more frequent repetition as compared to the dilution. this will also mean that we can adjust the frequency as per the sensitivity of the patient.

I have not found this to be true. In the 5th Organon Hahnemann said olfactions were just as deep as the oral dose. In fact, it seems that he gave olfactions MORE time to act than the oral dose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish he mentions curing severe acute symptoms with LM1 olfaction...he does not label these patients as hyper sensitive ones.

Olfactions can be very useful in those who are sensitive but they can be used on the average patient also. The above also shows that Dr. Choudhury used single doses in some cases!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish so olfaction does work well. even in acutes. even in LM1. even for average sensitivity? so why not give all LM potencies, to all patients by olfaction only?

There are cases in which Hahnemann used olfaction exclusively. His reasons for this, however, were a bit hard to deduce from his notes. In some cases the person seemed sensitive but in other they did not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish he mention curing a very chronic case with only LM olfactions. the patient was hypersensitive.

Yes, this is good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish he mentions the need of using LMs, by olfaction for the sensitives and the hyper sensitives. (so we cannot get away from olfactions ? is it so ?)

Yes, but one must be very careful to give a gentle dose to those with 750-100+ sensitivity. Hahnemann sometimes wrote down the words "gentle, moderate and forceful" next to his olfactions. This one way he adjusted the dose. One can have the patient take a small breath to strong breath or have the vial close or far away from the nose and use one or both nostrils.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish so why not use LMs by way of olfaction only?

It seems to me that some patients do better of olfaction and some on the oral dose. I something switch around as part of adjusting the dose and delivery system. It is VERY hard to tell in advance which is the best way. As usual, trial, error and success are the final arbitrators.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish all we need is to increase the length of the inhalation (say a deep long breath) for the people with lower sensitivities. the time interval between 2 olfactions may also be adjusted... no next olfaction as long as the effect of the previous one lasts. that makes it so easy, isn't it ?

Yes, this is an easy process. Sometimes, I find it is a little hard to get the dose as exact as I can measure an oral dose but usually that is not a problem. I like to either lower the number of succussions, make a large medicinal solution (14 tablespoons + instead of 7, etc), lower the potency to the 30c-6c, or use olfaction than use more then 2 or so dilution glasses. If I have to use too many glasses I don't consider the potency or dose to be appropriate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish is this adjustment not far simpler and easier on the part of the patient and the physician - compared to the dilution glass approach ?

Yes, this is basically true BUT I sometimes find that the oral dose seems to work better on some patients and the olfaction on others. Sometimes, I find switching back and forth will more a case that has staled forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish the length of the inhalation may be kept at 1 or 2 second on an average and the no of strokes 10.

The number of succussions should be individualized. Some sensitives only need 1, 2, or 3 succussions. 10 is too many for many sensitive persons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish dr chowdhury used only water (without alcohol) for the ultra ultra sensitive chronic case. I feel that more finer adjustment is possible for the super hypersensitives... I think some research can be done in this field.

Yes, research is in order. I have done a fair bit of experimenting and I like olfactions. The remedy goes directly through the olfactory nerves straight to the brain without going through the digestive system. It seems to get persons "a bit high" sometimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish I feel that from the most gross to the ultra ultra ultra sensitives can be handled very easily with a single approach - that is olfaction. thus we have the benefit of the advanced methods of hahnemann (LMs) and we do not need the water / glass adjustment, something which makes LMs a bit unpopular.

We "need not" is a bit like the word "never". It often does not apply. It is a question of individualization of the delivery system. I am afraid there may still be some who do better on the oral dose. There is nothing quite like a clinical trial for finding out how things work in the field.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish I found the following info / comments on david little's website (my words) -

This is my experience but I would not be surprised if Hahnemann used different air gaps. It just makes sense.



(cont...)

(...cont)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish the paris case books :- hahnemann gave single doses of olfaction and waited upto a week....there is no reason why the olfaction dose be considered smaller or weaker than the liquid dilution dose or be repeated more frequently

Hahneman liked to give his single doses by olfaction, gave placebo and waited and watch. I don't think he thought it was a weaker dose than the oral solution. Hahnemann recommended using 1 pill in a dram of dilute in the 6th edition. I use 1/2 water and 1/2 brandy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish most important info :-hahnemann did give LMs *only by olfaction* for some time and then the founder finally settled on the liquid dilution approach as *the median dose*.

Yes, in the early 1830s Hahnemann did a clinical trial where he mostly used olfactions. For this reason, the most detailed discussion on olfaction is found in the 5th Organon (1833). He did, however, proceed to develop the medicinal solution, dilution glass and full split-dose by 1837. Nevertheless, he continued to use olfactions right up until his passing in 1843.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish - dr andre saine's comments on LMs have attracted a lot of controversy. however, he makes interesting comments about olfaction. he mentions that the olfactions go "deeper". (for olfaction of centesimals, however)

Hahnemann certainly through they acted deeply as he waited longer before repeating olfactions than the oral dose in many cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish hahnemmna's chronic diseases (CD) - veteran homeopath late dr t s iyer writes :-

I have calmed down a few patients with olfactions which could not be quieted by the oral dose. Yes, the power increases with more inspirations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish what was H's "highest potency" when he wrote the CD ? it could not have been above 200 C, of course. but was it closer to 30 or 50 C ?

Hahnemann was using mostly 30c in 1828 although he already spoke of using Thuja in a much higher potency. I don't remember how high right now, and I don't have time to look it up, but it was possible 60c or something???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish I found the following very interesting :-

Some of Hahnemann's olfaction prescriptions were marked with "gentle" or "forceful" , which I relate to the nature of dose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish my experience - I consider myself on the sensitive side (1000+++) and I have tried olfactions of the highest centesimals (CM) on myself... - I have tried smelling the CM of 2 remedies and have done the olfaction proving of several remedies in LM potencies (LM 1, 2, 3, 4). also freak experiences with LM6, 10, 20. I have felt the effects for upto 21 days on myself.

This is not surprising. I wish those who think one has to use the daily dose mechanically would understand this. I just read another case messed up by the daily dose. Hahnemann NEVER gave the daily dose for weeks and months on end without interpolating periods of placebo and waiting and watch. He even gave more placebo with olfactions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish I have tried the olfactions on a few patients of average sensitivity and my finding is that the olfactions seem to work for all potencies and even for those with average sensitivity.

You can adjust the dose of an olfaction is such a manner that they will act on anyone. No problems here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish I do find the *only olfaction* approach very promising. it works quite long and quite deeply. that's all I can say at the moment.

Yes, you should try it for awhile. That is how you will find out!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish I found that when the olfactions did not seem to work, irrespective of the sensitivity of the patient, the reason was that the remedy selection was not perfectly homoepathic

Yes, I think one can get a reaction with anyone who is susceptible to the remedy chosen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish does gving the LMs by olfaction makes things smoother and better and more patient /physican compliant ?

All I can say is that Hahnemann continued to use olfaction and the oral solution side by side throughout the entire LM period. Olfactions are very effective. As I said, however, I have seen some who do better on the oral dose and some on olfaction or a mixture of the two. The reasons for this, however, I cannot offer so easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish I plan to continue my observations and - I look fwd to hear your views / comments / experience. after all - we learn and grow together as a community.

I look forward to hearing the results of your clinical trial.

Sincerely, David Little

PS. Sorry for any spelling mistakes and the like but I am speeding through
these post as I don't have much extra time.

dear david

namaste !

as always - it's pleasure to read your post. I tried to cover all points but a few things did slip from my mind, you have completed the full picture.
a few comments :-

- you wrote that you use the 1/2 brandy and 1/2 water dilute for the olfaction.
dr harimohun used one drop water (to dissolve the globule) and the rest spirit.
I have found this ratio better in my trials.
I don't know what alcohol dr H chowdhury used. I use the HAPCO, calcutta supplied double distilled homeopathic rectified spirit 60 degree OP.

- I will continue my clinical trials. my experience on myself has revealed that there is a difference between olfaction with right nostril or left nostril, as well. I had this experience with cannabis indica. the indian yoga has always talkes about the left and right nadis etc. however, no other patient has reported this to me. I am on the
1000 +++ sensitivity side.

- I wrote this post after observing matters (olfaction related) for a year or so and i feel confident suggest that olfaction of LMs is a wonderful way and works for all potencies and for people of all sensitivities. It is by no means a weak dose or a short acting one. I rather found it deeper. I always get a "high" within a few seconds of olfaction.

- what would you say, if someone tried *only olfaction* approach for all patients ?
do you think it makes sense ?

I wait to hear from you. It's about the personal post that I sent to you.
I understand that you are busy. please take your time.

namaste again !

manish