Hi David and Friends with experience in LMs,

I wonder if you might offer some advice.

I am treating a child with the remedy Mag Mur in LM potencies.

We have crawled up the potency scale since Feb, 2001(she was 6 years old
at that time) - I am now making the LM 28 for her, to give you some
perspecive last March she had the LM 26 bottle.

I am getting a bit nervous as we go to these higher potencies.

Am I simply palliating? What happens when I get to the LM 30 and she is
still not 'over the edge'? will she ever 'get there' wherever there
might be.

The child is happy, healthy, productive in school, the behaviour problems
she came to me with are gone.

When the child gets moody, or sags badly, mom gives her the remedy, and
all her problems clear until that dose wears out.

The remedy appears to be acting well, I am just concerned as to
the duration of the dosing. (she has had one intercurrent of Merc 200C
for anabscess in July of 2001, since then it has been just this remedy.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Warmly, Maria

Hi Maria,

Re your question about what happens when she's thru with 30 -- Sheilagh
Creasey has said that if you pass 30 and still need same remedy, you can
just go back to LM1, and it will work just as tho it were a "new" potency to
the patient!

Here's my thought re the remedy is whetherpalliating or curing, and I'm
eager to hear what others think! I would want to see what happens during a
"full relapse" (hard for mom, no doubt!) -- is she relapsing to a better
place than before (maybe hard to evaluate since she is growing and changing
all the time!), or does she seem to relapse to pretty much the same? If the
remedy is *curing*, then over time her relapses ought to become less severe,
shouldn't they? (I'm basing this assumption on my experiences with C's
relapsing during cure vs. palliation...)

Shannon

Personally, the only cases where I keep repeating LMs for a long time is
with deep seated, almost incurable patients (I have 2 Parkinson patients
with that type of treatment, steadily doing better but very slowly).

If I have to keep repeating a remedy, then I assume I am palliating and
challenge my prescription.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind""

At 04:05 PM 8/18/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> Hi David and Friends with experience in LMs,
>
> I wonder if you might offer some advice.
>
>I am treating a child with the remedy Mag Mur in LM potencies.
>
>We have crawled up the potency scale since Feb, 2001(she was 6 years old
>at that time) - I am now making the LM 28 for her, to give you some
>perspecive last March she had the LM 26 bottle.
>
>I am getting a bit nervous as we go to these higher potencies.

Dear Maria,

It is nice to hear from you. Yes, she has been on the remedy for a long
time but sometimes individuals need remedies on and off for life!


>Am I simply palliating? What happens when I get to the LM 30 and she is
>still not 'over the edge'? will she ever 'get there' wherever there
>might be.

What is the cause and nature of the disease state? That is really
important. You can go higher than 0/30 if needed. Dr. Choudhury had
potencies far beyond this but I have never needed them. Kent used to start
all over at the bottom when he ran over the top. This can also be done with
the LM potency.


>The child is happy, healthy, productive in school, the behaviour problems
>she came to me with are gone.

Treating behavioral problems is often treating the deepest level of the
constitution and temperament. What was the nature of the original symptoms
and how serious where they?


>When the child gets moody, or sags badly, mom gives her the remedy, and
>all her problems clear until that dose wears out.

How old is this child? How long do the doses last?


> The remedy appears to be acting well, I am just concerned as to
>the duration of the dosing. (she has had one intercurrent of Merc 200C
>for anabscess in July of 2001, since then it has been just this remedy.

When one is truly palliating the particular symptom under treatment
gets better but the patient's vitality usually goes downward or they often
come up with new symptoms. Palliation is a form of suppression and always
has some negative side actions of some sort. There is a difference between
palliation and the remedy being right and the posology being wrong. There
is also a chance that this is case that the C potency might be more
curative or follow the LM well. I cannot make such a judgment from here.
Sometimes ERA-ART while help in such dilemmas if you can get a good iris,
pulse, abdominal stick or percussion reaction.

When one is working with innate psychological tendencies the process
can be very long. In fact, some people have to work lifelong to overcome
such things. I am still working on some of my "behavior problems"! Was she
"born" this way or have you found a post natal cause like a trauma, a
serious change in her life, etc. Are the father and mother present in the
home?

Are there any reasons behind he continued moodiness, etc? Does she
still need these moods to get attention or to express some other needs? Are
they a defense mechanism? How are the family dynamics? Is the a maintaining
cause in operation? Is there a need for family counseling? ??????

Sincerely, David Little


>Thanks for your thoughts.
>
>Warmly, Maria

---------------
"It is the life-force which cures diseases because a dead man needs no more
medicines."

Samuel Hahnemann

Visit our website on Hahnemannian Homoeopathy and Cyberspace Homoeopathic
Academy at
http://www.simillimum.com
David Little © 2000

shannon wrote

>Re your question about what happens when she's thru with 30 -- Sheilagh
Creasey has said that if you pass 30 and still need same remedy, you can
just go back to LM1, and it will work just as tho it were a "new" potency to
the patient!

Hello All,

This is what they say, but to be honest, I can't see the logic behind this.
I like to see the remedy to penetrate deeper, not to start over again on a
more superficial level!
There are more possibilities in this case:
1.Why stop at LM30 ?, Patel used also some remedies up to LM50!
2. It possible to switch from LM to Centimal Potencies (C200) in fluid from
here, the patient must be able to bear them by now.

But with C-potencies at he end of the scale we have the same problem, what
to do when you reach after many years of good reaction (200,1M, 10M, 50M,
CM,the last MM potency?
Some say start over again with the same 200, others (Saine) say another
potency range is better: 500, 2M, 20M, 60M etc. Also a switch to another
scale i.e Finke might be helpfull (Hubbard).
More suggestions? Has anyone experience with the new C4 potency scale,it is
claimed they are dynamically high developed and act on the deepest levels,
even more so then the highest C and LM potencies?

Kind regard, Piet

Hi Piet,

If you have got the patient up to MM and they still need the same remedy,
then surely you're palliating rather than curing, aren't you? In that case,
well, I was *told* that you can go back down -- even perhaps back down to 6
-- but would love to hear actual experiences with this approach. (In
addition to than Sheilagh Creasey's!) Has anyone here had this experience,
and did it work or not work???

My other thought, tho, is that since the remedy is evidently not "curing"
anyway, why not try another apparently well-indicated remedy? Maybe you'll
"luck" onto curative response, or at least should be able to find another
serviceable palliative?

Shannon

> shannon wrote

>Hi Piet,

>If you have got the patient up to MM and they still need the same remedy,
>then surely you're palliating rather than curing, aren't you?

Hello Shannon, all

What an unexpected remark/question: The patient is responding very well to
this remedy, but after one year or two there is a relapse and most of time
the same potency could be repeated ones, and then I had to move to the next
potency.
But for more then 10 years the remedy is the same (Sulphur). No
complementary remedy change over the years, but still on the same remedy
after all those years. I think this is what Kents serie in degrees is about?
Kent conclusion for this is that the remedy is the Simillimum, rather then
'surely palliating'.
This male patient, age 72 years is very healthy, has no pathology (anymore),
but has approx. every two years a relapse.
Two months ago I gave him the MM for the first time and again he responded
very well.
When a remedy is incorrect or partial, the patient responds only to 1 or 2
potencies and then the remedy changes.
Maybe when I had the change to treat this person when he was a child, I
might have moved faster to another remedy?
But now he probably needed for almost 60 years Sulphur, wouldn't it take
much longer and higher potencies to remove this psoric/ constitutional
disease completely?
This is the reason, why I don't like to go back to the lower potencies
again.
So by his reaction and state of health you can tell this is not palliating
but an excellent ongoing cure.
Why should I try to find another remedy, like you suggest? Never change the
remedy as long you have good curative reaction, but still I've used the
highest available potency. Maybe the MM is the last one I need, but who can
tell? I always like be one step ahead (I already bought some high Finke
potencies).


Kind regards, Piet

Maybe what Shannon means by palliating is that the remedy still needs to be
repeated and that CURE would mean that eventually (sooner rather than later)
the remedy should never need to be repeated again. I will let her say :-)

This is interesting from a potency point of view and David hinted at the
fact that maybe sometimes we can move away from all the usual potencies and
go for some potency in between, such as 40c, 190c, 250c etc etc and in this
manner hit on the simillimum potency as well as the simillimum remedy.

Just a thought.

Best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com

Hi Joy,

I think I leapt to an inappropriate conclusion in replying to Piet :-) ,
but what I meant by "palliating" is simply, alleviation of the symptoms
*without any movement toward cure". Which goes back to my earlier remark,
that it can be instructive to see what happens during relapse -- is it
better, worse, same, compared to the prior state?

I had an experience with myself that made a lasting impression, where I was
prescribed repeated ("as-needed", not mechanical) doses of a (then-unknown)
remedy, which always had a very nice initial response, but wore off "too
fast" (according to my history and expectation) and -- the main point --
that each time a dose wore off I found myself *worse* off than before.
Re-dosing (often with a higher potency) each time helped very significantly,
and actually got me to feeling basically fine, but the overall trend was one
that I found very disturbing, in that I seemed to be getting *worse*
underneath, even while the remedy kept me *appearing* to be better -- but
only so long as I was under its influence (so to speak).

My experience with *curative* remedies has been that over time (and it may
be gradual!) the underlying condition improves such that a relapse takes one
back to a state that is (at least a little bit?) sturdier and better than
where you were before the dose, or before commencing treatment.

If there's no underlying improvement -- no improvement in the state
*between* doses -- how can the action be said to be curative? To me that
seems the *definition* of pallation, isn't it?

Shannon

Hi Piet,

Sorry, I shouldn't have made assumptions!
More explanation in my reply to Joy's.

Best,
Shannon