onemo, ignore GM's advice and you cast gold back into the river.

Mentals in this case is interpreted, and gray hair, rules over milk, and dont forget that the milk has fats.
Did not use mumbling, used the main rubric, i use Kent, the most reliable repertory there is.
the anorexia part is, a suspicion of mine.
Also, sleep disturbed, dreams by, no phos in kent.( this last i looked up now), the main keys is the drinking of water,cold drinks in general, you picked the milk out of its relation, the saying is cold drinks, not milk, as imentioned before.Im under the impression, that users of Murphy, etc, is often more mistaken and do not find the remedy, contra users of Kent.
Ars desires cold drinks, no matter what, if to be cold milk, well then i choose tuberculinum, as this is the ruler of that symptome.The picture is a bit spread, so if ars dont work, ill use tub.
And you do the mistake, of using interpreted, coloured mentals, always use bodysympt as your first, as they cant be interpreted, they dont lie, they disclose.

[This message has been edited by GM (edited 26 March 2000).]

PS, theres one more Big mistake, what you refer to is old arsenicums, younger ones you cant see the same picture in.Also cold room nigth, is usually open window, and the rubric for that, is respiration, difficult, wants doors and windows open...or one of the others, or the main rubric, but chek if thats not the thruth..
And where did you find amelioration in a cold room? its stated that he likes it, because warm rooms aggs sweat, the rubric you shall use, is then warm room agg perspiration, cold supressing, and supressed perspiration...
you get my drift?
And perspiration,sleep, on beginning too.
You put in several things, that is not there.

But, i reconsidder, as there was some small things i overlooked, and the case is split, so i would rather use sulphur x30, one dose, and then Tuberculinum one M, and wait, there is also Natrium, calcium andremedies more symptomes here, i would bet he has got a layer upon the other,and thats from BCG ( the tub vaxine).
After tub, it will become clear if its phosp, ars, or calc thats the remey who is his constitutional.
[This message has been edited by GM (edited 26 March 2000).]

[This message has been edited by GM (edited 26 March 2000).]

[This message has been edited by GM (edited 26 March 2000).]

To Gier:

Thank you for your detailed explanations:

I would first like to tell you that I use the MacRepertory which is the Kent's Repertory, also, for checking, I use the Murphy, the Brousalian's Kent (French translation) and the Bartel.

The Kent's Repertory is by no way complete, Kent used up the last years of his life and his remaining health to write it but asked his students to complete it, in fact he said that it was their duty. Although I'm not Kent's student (would have loved it) I have mine full of handwritten remedies that I've started adding back in shool.
I never only use one Repertory, and when they don't agree, I refer to Materia Medicas. Never do I only use Murphy, it's incomplete! And Repertories are supposed to be a go-between the homeopath and the Materia Medicas.

Now, for the rubrics:
Graying hair:
Head, hair, affections of, becomes gray: there are 25 remedies, and ars and phos are both there, along with Lyc and others.
Kent's Repertory has only 15 remedies (if you want to add the others, let me know and I will post them for you.)

Sleep disturbed by dreams:
160 remedies, I learned in school that when a rubric show too many remedies, it's not a good rubric to use...
In Kent, there are around 50 remedies.

But, here the most important fact is that as a child, he was awakened by dreams, and as his mom says: "Would be awake and still in such a state of fear. I would try and snap him out of the state, couldn't come out of fear and dream state. He would be awake but still in the attack"

This is what we have to repertorize I think:
MIND, Dreams, continued after waking: 29 remedies, no ars, phos is there and so is Lyc.

Kent has this rubric in SLEEP, and no ars and no phos are there!

This person was not only disturbed by dreams, he was in such a state that they continued after the waking and his mom could not make him snap out of it.

Today though he has problem falling asleep, not awaken by dreams, because once asleep, ok, as his mom states. No dreams (2nd Post) So, here, even if we use the rubric:
Sleep, Sleeplessness from thoughts: both our remedies are there in the MacRepertory, although 160 remedies makes it not such a good rubric, we would have to ask him what are his thoughts about, could be business, could be fears, we don't know, it's hard to use as a symptom because it's too general.
In Kent, under Sleeplesness, thoughts, activity of mind, from, ars is there in bold capitals, and a lot of others are absent, including Phos. Wonder where MacRepertory got the 100 and so other remedies from.

About the cold room part:
Where do you find that his mom refers to suppressed perspiration? It is merely stated that the person's perspiration is aggravated in a warm room and that he likes to sleep in an ice-cold room (mentioned in the first Post). No mention about suppression of perspiration except it's worse in a warm room, we have no idea if it's suppressed or not in a cold room. Suppression is no sweat at all, we don't know that!

Sorry to say Gier, but a cold room is not necessarily an "open windows kind of cold room" some people couldn't sleep with the windows open in winter,but like a cold room to sleep in, it can be obtained by other ways than by opening the windows. You just turn down the heat.

As for the cold milk, yes it is there, his mom says: "Likes cold drinks, milk, water, beer..." so the milk part is there and Ars is not present in the rubric. In the Ken Ars is both agg and amel by milk although they don't say the temperature. He is not really thirsty (phos is there and so is Ars) and as they say Ars sips small quantities at a time, his drink according to his mom is one third gone (but this could be also interpreted...)

If I look at pictures of Ars as a child and as an adolescent, I agree with you, the picture does seem to fit, they're conscientious about trifles, suspicious, reproaches others and are discontented with themselves. But where is the imagination, the telling of stories, the "very funny" part. It would fit a Lyc or a Phos better, even a Sulph, but Ars? Even if his mom interprets, she cannot interpret to the point of relating things that are not present. She would merely intensify or lessen, but not construct.

You do have to admit Gier, that Ars, and Phos are similar on the surface. I also agree with you that the case is something of a cocktail here... a cleaning up of this case would do a lot of good... But, after reading what his mom says about his rapid change of state, Phos is the up and down one, could be one minute high, the next depressed (perhaps not litteraly, but close) and then again, I use the Mentals here...

I'm a hard headed Phos Gier, know this remedy inside out as it is my life, I admit not knowing Ars. that much, I merely know Ars as you, from books and Repertories, and patients... But I still find it hard to prescribe it in this case. I still stick to Phos. I consider you as a very good homeopath and it's a pleasure discussing remedies with you. Please don't take this as merely a need to contradict we all benefit from discussions, this is the best way to learn.

Thank you again,
Marie

By the way, I found the speech thing in : Speech and Voice, speech, unintelligible (MacRepertory). Wouldn't prescribe on it though as this IS an interpretation.

To Onemo:
Before you give your son Lyc. please read it thoroughly, and not only in one Materia Medica, read all you can find. It is always hard to prescribe to a member of our own family, because we do interpret the symptoms. I usually send my son to another homeopath for heavier stuff, the acute I deal with but the rest is better dealt with by a stranger. Also, a 22 years old guy will not tell everything to his mom, I know my 16 year old won't, even if we have a super good relationship. Ask somebody else's advice when valorizing the symptoms, especially the mentals.

I agree with Gier that this looks like there is more to it than what it appears to be. Maybe a nosode would lift up some of it. He is a very good homeopath, even though I don't agree with his Ars I feel Phos closer
But he still has a point as far as the lifting of layers are concerned.

Good luck and keep us posted on the results.

Marie

GM's reconsidered advice above is Sulph 30 followed by Tub to clear the case. There is no real disagreement here, just speculation as to what might evolve after the Tub has done its work, which no one can yet know.

Marie.
Havent you seen what students do on the BB?
What do you think they have done to your dear updated reprtorys?
And Marie, before you try to get more going than i want to participate in, retink your questioning manner, is ther perhaps a need of a remedy?
Colour full or Inky?
Regarding the panic, you use the wrong rubric, the correct rubric is, Fear,waking dream,from a, and heureka, arsenicum is not there, i know it, but thers is still some that says tuberculinum, the case is in layers.

[This message has been edited by GM (edited 27 March 2000).]

Dear Geir

I read your post with a big smile . You have your ways, I have mine. I use a bit of TLC when I do my cases, you do it differently. This is what makes it fun! Different opinions, different ways of treating, this is what we need to learn and better ourselves.

To tell you the truth, I dont give a hoot if Ars is in the chosen rubric or not! One rubric does not make or break a case! I merely wanted to understand your reasoning, how you got to Ars because I didn't see the case that way. As for which rubric to use and not to use, read the mom's post, lots of people can wake up with fear from a bad dream, only a few of them will react like this boy did!
He remained in the dream and couldn't snap out of it!
This comes closer to what we are looking for, as per Aphorism 153 of the Organon.


And by the way, if you have a remedy suggestion for me, a colorful or inky remedy, let's hear it!, I'm willing if you are! (although I have my remedy, and I feel very lucky for that).

Again, let me thank you for this discussion, I benefited from it, others did too! I just hope you won't hold it against me, as it may happen again in the future. You have tremendous knowledge Geir, it would be a pity to keep it all to yourself, homeopathy IS also about sharing. We all benefit from it.

Have a nice day!
Marie

P.S: And for all of you out there who thought that this was a "dogfight over a bone" well...it was not, merely a discussion, between two homeopaths. No name calling, no hair pulling. Just a friendly exchange of opinions. I respect Geir for the homeopath he is, now, I respect him even more. Don't agree with him all the time, but still respect his views.

Cant admitt being on the wrong track, no, "dont give a hoot about ars", well why nag about it then?, i had already reconsiddered, and i admitt that it was somthing i overlooked, well, and that makes you feel like the winner?
Bravo, i saw it nicely from the other post you answered in, you think you won?
What shall i say? What shall i say?
Congratulations?

Dear Geir,
Why do you feel attacked all the time? Who said anything about winning or loosing here? Does life always have to be a competition?

I admit to the language barrier here, neither of our first languages is english, but still Geir, you must know what the word "discussion" means? An exchange of ideas, different point of views, this is what makes up a discussion. And it was by no means unfriendly, and by no means was it directed at loosing or winning!

By the way, I was merely answering your conclusion about the rubric you mentionned for the second time: Fear, waking dream, from a...
I was by no means challenging, only explaining my thinking.

Nobody wins Geir, exept maybe the patients...

Regards,
Marie

Exactly!