Hans

Recently I visited London and went to the Science Museum. In restaurant there is display about MMR vaccine because there is much controversy. I forget now exact numbers, but in response to parent's complaints that they were not being taken seriously a set of cases from these parents was looked at in detail. Remember these are parents who are most sure the vaccine caused autism in their children. In a big big majority there was in the Dr's notes recording of abnormal behaviour BEFORE MMR has been given, so it was not cause. Most important is to understand that these parents still chose to blame the vaccine. People choose what they want to believe. For some they will not accept evidence if it denies a story they are committed to.

Yes, jury is still very much out on the connection between MMR and autism. Actually, at present the pointer is moving towards no connection, but you will notice that once a suspicion has been worded, it will be used uncritically by some people.

Edited to add: I would have done this in a PM, but you have them turned off; Have you tried this forum ? A bit more room for the skeptical POV there

Hans

[ 04. November 2003, 09:05: Message edited by: MRC_Hans ]

__________________
<i>You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.</i>

My homoeopathic education included 3 years of medical sciences - pathology, physiology, physical examination, wet labs, biochemistry, nutrition etc. I also have nearly 10 years of experience in practice and work regularly with medical doctors.

The patients I see are healthy before vaccination, then several days (if not hours or even minutes) after vaccination they become unhealthy. Sometimes violently so. I see many ordinary people who have never been to an alternative medical therapist (having come to me on referral from doctors), and they really know little about these concerns about vaccination. They tell me themselves that they have never felt well since the vaccination. I do not prompt for this.

In the past month I have seen:

An elderly gentleman who experienced chronic fatigue after a flu vaccination.

The infant child of a nurse (a medical lecturer) who reacted violently to her DPT vaccine and began to waste away (this child died).

A nurse who caught the flu one day after his flu vaccination and was sick for almost a month.

A child who reacted to the MMR vaccine with a violent fever, and whose behaviour changed from that day on - she became frightened of strangers and extremely aggressive.

One of the doctors who refers to me confided that she sees vaccine reactions very regularly. Behavioural changes in children, eczema, chronic diarrhoea, swelling that lasts months in the injected limb, and even ulceration around the injection site. In adults she has seen migraines being activated, chronic fatigue states, herpes eruptions around the injection site, obstinate insomnia.

__________________
David Kempson.<br />Dip.Homoeopathic Medicine.<br />Lecturer Australian College of Natural Therapies (Brisbane Campus)<br />Member AHA, AROH, HMA<br />Member Australian Homoeopathic Association. Member#0442.

David:
Hans

[ 04. November 2003, 11:06: Message edited by: MRC_Hans ]

__________________
<i>You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.</i>

Well, these stories would need elaborating if one is to try and extract anything from them, but of course you cannot be more specific about real patients. One of the problems with case stories.



Vaccination Debate
graphical chart shows vaccines DID NOT REDUCE diseases.

ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute: Avoid Vaccine Reactions
go to "Personal stories" hundreds of posts by parents who have children suffering from Vaccine adverse reactions

Vaccination: A Sacrament of Modern Medicine - Richard Moskowitz M.D. - HealthWorld Online
VACCINATION A SACRAMENT OF MODERN MEDICINE

WAVE - World Association for Vaccine Education
chart=adverse reactions

and of course we have good old corruption via politics/vaccines Immunization Ploys: Are Vaccines Safe?
Falsely justify the use of vaccines via double talk,fraud in tests,intimidation,coercion,scare tactics,lies,suppressed information and propaganda........................................ ................
more on politics and vaccines;
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
"DEADLY IMMUNITY" june 15-2005
the biggest scandal and coverup by the FDA and CDC

__________________
"Great ideas often recieve violent opposition from mediocre minds"...................Einstein

just to add:
The november issue of Ezine at Homeopathy = Hpathy, Homeopathic Medicines Homeopathy Remedies, Treatments & More!
will be full of cases/articles/new books on homeopathy/vaccine adverse reaction for those interested stay in touch.

be more specific about real patients. One of the problems with case stories........................................... .................................................. ....................Hans

I will be posting one of my own cases in the Nov issue at Hpathy.com you can read for yourself the details........................................... .................................................. ...................gina




This subject will only escalade as big Pharma gets more desperate in trying to "market" their toxins (vaccines),More and more children are suffering extreme acute and longterm chronic side effects each yr.
Firsthand cases are seen on a daily basis by most classical homeopaths. Its an utter shame that conventional modern medicine has turned their heads towards denial,but to be expected afterall its a few billion dollars each yr in Big Pharma's pocket. To admit to their horrific history of 'genocide' via vaccines would be the downfall of modern medicine.

Alliance for Human Research Protection - About the Alliance for Human Research Protection
non Ethical medical research(includes vaccine research)
1. anthraxFDAcomments0305.pdf
Comments and Questions regarding FDA's proposed rule and order to license Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed Re: ACTION: DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES Food and Drug Administration,...
URL: http://www.ahrp.org/ahrpspeaks/anthr...mments0305.pdf Score: 100% Date: 2006-10-26 Size: 317 kB

2. Twin Pharma Give-A-Ways: Biodefense Vaccine /Drug Development Act--S. 1873_ $7 b...
Twin Pharma Give-A-Ways: Biodefense Vaccine /Drug Development Act--S. 1873_ $7 bill Bird Flu Plan Search Archives Preview New Site About AHRP / Mission Statement What's New...
URL: Twin Pharma Give-A-Ways: Biodefense Vaccine /Drug Development Act--S. 1873_ $7 bill Bird Flu Plan Score: 41% Date: - Size: 36 kB

3. 91 Merck Memo Warned of Mercury in Baby Vaccines - LAT
91 Merck Memo Warned of Mercury in Baby Vaccines - LAT Search Archives Preview New Site About AHRP / Mission Statement What's New AHRP Infomails AHRP...
URL: 91 Merck Memo Warned of Mercury in Baby Vaccines - LAT Score: 29% Date: - Size: 24 kB

4. FDA MedWatch data show olanzapine (Zyprexa) -diabetes risk
FDA MedWatch data show olanzapine (Zyprexa) -diabetes risk Search Archives Preview New Site About AHRP / Mission Statement What's New AHRP Infomails AHRP in the News...
URL: FDA MedWatch data show olanzapine (Zyprexa) -diabetes risk Score: 27% Date: - Size: 25 kB

5. Tim Russert of Meet the Press Has Been Deceived about Thimerasol
Tim Russert of Meet the Press Has Been Deceived about Thimerasol Search Archives Preview New Site About AHRP / Mission Statement What's New AHRP Infomails AHRP...
URL: Tim Russert of Meet the Press Has Been Deceived about Thimerasol Score: 26% Date: - Size: 16 kB

6. Merck Baby Vaccines Not Pure - LAT/ FDA Advisory-Crestor / Zyprexa Lawsuit charg...
Merck Baby Vaccines Not Pure - LAT/ FDA Advisory-Crestor / Zyprexa Lawsuit charges Lilly concealed Diabetes risk Search Archives Preview New Site About AHRP / Mission...
URL: Merck Baby Vaccines Not Pure - LAT/ FDA Advisory-Crestor / Zyprexa Lawsuit charges Lilly concealed Diabetes risk Score: 26% Date: - Size: 30 kB

7. Smallpox Public Comments
Smallpox Public Comments Search Archives Preview New Site About AHRP / Mission Statement What's New AHRP Infomails AHRP in the News History of Human Research Ethical...
URL: Smallpox Public Comments Score: 24% Date: - Size: 44 kB

8. Soldier's Death Tied to Vaccines / Experimental Ebola vaccine attracts no volunt...
Soldier's Death Tied to Vaccines / Experimental Ebola vaccine attracts no volunteers Search Archives Preview New Site About AHRP / Mission Statement What's New AHRP Infomails...
URL: Soldier's Death Tied to Vaccines / Experimental Ebola vaccine attracts no volunteers Score: 19% Date: - Size: 25 kB

9. Smallpox Public Comments
Smallpox Public Comments Search Archives Preview New Site About AHRP / Mission Statement What's New AHRP Infomails AHRP in the News History of Human Research Ethical...
URL: Smallpox Public Comments Score: 19% Date: - Size: 34 kB

10. Risks: Drugs / Vaccines / Trials / Treatments
Risks: Drugs / Vaccines / Trials / Treatments Search Archives Preview New Site About AHRP / Mission Statement What's New AHRP Infomails AHRP in the News...
URL: Risks: Drugs / Vaccines / Trials / Treatments Score: 16% Date: - Size: 39 kB

11. "Anthrax vaccine a deadly defense?" --NW Indiana Times
"Anthrax vaccine a deadly defense?" --NW Indiana Times Search Archives Preview New Site About AHRP / Mission Statement What's New AHRP Infomails AHRP in the News...
URL: "Anthrax vaccine a deadly defense?" --NW Indiana Times Score: 16% Date: - Size: 32 kB

12. CNN / Mercury News: Bioshield Vaccine Contracts to mfg with "closest ties w...
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__________________
"Great ideas often recieve violent opposition from mediocre minds"...................Einstein

Hey Hans

As you know there are many examples of good intentions going bad. Pharmaceutical science and industry are a business. By definition they are there to make a profit for the company and shareholders.

Tell me if I'm wrong; I get a product from one of your multinational drug companies because I have some symptoms/illness. They promote this product with a list of the positive effects derived from it's ingestion. By legislation they also provide a list of the so called "side effects" of this same product that are the negative effects from ingestion. After a time with my symptoms controlled I begin to develop another set of symptoms. I get another product to help manage these new symptoms. I also have to bear the side effects, again. Now there are more poisons to deal with. And so forth and so on ad nauseam (literally).

Business wants repeat customers. If a company can get em through legitemate means then they will and what better than the health system.

I don't think anybody ever claimed that side-effects did not occur. If you have access to stastistics that suggest that the prevalence of side-effects is alarming (side effects are, of course, always alarming to the individualst who get them), you should contact the authorities, and failing their attention, the media.

Really, have you tried this tac? I'd say no. It aint hollywood out there, there are no superheroes standing for the rights of all

I would like you to come back with some of the hard evidence from any of the vaccine manufacturers that would put my mind to rest over the short medium and long term effects of this practice. (Hint there is none - they don't really care except for profits). I'm not saying that vaccines are totally ineffective but at what cost? It's the canaries that die first when the poisonous air builds up slowly down the mine shaft.

Also you should bear in mind that Homeopathy cut its teeth on the pandemic illnesses of the day when the allopathic schools were loosing patients hand over fist. According to records, it was only rational medicine (i.e. easily comprehensible principles) that were truly helpful.

Here is a little interesting reading for you


The treatment of influenza and its complications as seen in the present epidemic.” The British Homoeopathic Journal. December 1918, No.12.Vol. V111
synopsis by Sally Tamplin

∑ Special references to homeopathic Belladonna, Baptisia Gelsemium, Phosphorus and Sulphur.
∑ The success of early treatment.
∑ Slow pulse out of proportion to the temperature.
∑ The role of temperature in acute disease.
∑ The role of isopathic treatment in pneumonia cases.
∑ The influenza diet: citrus fruit.

The reader may be interested to note that the name influenza is of Italian derivation. It is said that the disease received this name because it was attributed to the “influence of the stars.” In 1658 Willis wrote, “about the end of April, suddenly a distemper arose, as if sent by some blast of the stars, which laid hold on very many together; that in the space of a week, above a thousand people fell sick together.”

Dr.C.E.Wheeler, of London introduced the discussion. He thought that the severity of the epidemic had been due to some extent to the tension that everyone had been under over the years, “The greatest powers of resistance of the peoples of the world must to some extent be lowered by the terrible experiences they had been going through.”

In Dr.Wheeler’s own experience the cases that were treated early progressed satisfactorily.Baptisia and Gelsemium had proved extremely useful. Among complications in quite a large number of cases there had been hemorrhage of the nose. He had seen some cases where the nasal hemorrhage was so great that plugging of the nostrils had been necessary. This symptom had suggested using the homeopathic remedy, Phosphorus.
Dr.F.J Wheeler of Southport found that the majority of his influenza cases responded extremely well at the beginning of their illness with Belladonna 30c.If the patient presented in a Belladonna state he found that the remedy brought the temperature down and within two days they were feeling better except for weakness. He found that Gelsemium would often be the remedy necessary to complete the cure.”

Dr. R.Stephenson, working on a troop ship carrying service men from New Zealand, observed that Baptisia and Gelsemium were called for in some cases, and as generally noted by other physicians, if taken early appeared many times to abort the illness.

The most important of all sequelae was pneumonia.Dr.Wheeler noted that when influenza cases were treated early pneumonia, was in most cases, prevented. In every case that he had personally seen, the lower lobe of the left lung had been affected. Cases that came in late were the most difficult to handle.Dr.kyle had used a lot of Phosphorus in the hospital; he had had a few successful cases where this remedy had been used although it is thought of specifically suitable for right – sided cases.

Dr.Mc Lachlan found that Gelseminum was the main homeopathic remedy for many of his cases (he was seeing 50 – 60 people a day) and in pneumonia cases he found that Phosphorous, Lachesis and kali- bichromium of great use. In one pneumonia case he arrived and found that the patient’s expectoration was not merely “rust colored” but rather like “prune juice”, as if composed of dark venous blood and little else. He associated such expectoration with threatened failure of the right ventricle of the heart. He gave Phosphorous both for the lung condition and because it is the “digitalis” of the right side of the heart.

Dr.Barlee from Tunbridge Wells noted that in his cases of influenza complicated with pneumonia that he had found homeopathic Sulphur in high potency of the greatest value.

Dr.Edith Neild, of Tunbridge Wells worked with some severe pneumonia cases and used a dilution of the patient’s own sputum with tremendous success. The improvement was quite marked and immediate in all cases. The sputum is diluted to three with normal saline. “I give three doses the first night, and if the temperature rises again the second night also. I have sometimes had to give it a third time.” The indicated homeopathic remedies have been continued during the day; although there had been no previous improvement traceable to their use. The improvements noted in practically all cases were as follows
:
∑ Immediate fall of about two degrees of temperature, usually with perspiration.
∑ Increase of cough, which however, became looser.
∑ The sputum changing from a sticky, bloody character, to muco – purulent in about two days.
∑ Cleaning of the tongue
∑ General feeling of betterment.
∑ The pneumonic signs clear quickly; any bronchitis present takes much longer.
∑ Diarrhoea, if present, stops.
∑ The pulse rate, which is often abnormally slow in these cases, does not seem to be much affected.”

Dr.Robertson Day also noted how his attention had been drawn to the slowness of the pulse in this influenza epidemic. He considered it to be a constant occurrence and was a point of great diagnostic value – the slow pulse out of proportion to the temperature. He said that it may be so extreme that the rate was reduced to 40 -50 beats per minute. Hence the frequency of fainting attacks where work is resumed too soon after the illness and a weak and dilated heart may persist.

Dr. John Mc Lachlan from Oxford observed that in his home town 1 in 14 cases died. He found that the 1918 epidemic differed from previous outbreaks of influenza in a number of different ways. There was a tendency for the virus to attack the young, especially school age children between the ages of 8 and 16 years. There was also a special liability to a particular virulent form of lobar pneumonia that was extremely rapid, like a lightening strike. He was amazed at how quickly strong men succumbed and also many young mothers, many of them pregnant.Dr.Mc Lachlan noted that until this epidemic there had never been any trouble treating influenza cases, they all recovered. In previous outbreaks pneumonia cases were rare, and even when present they never caused any concern, everyone eventually recovered. In the present situation he noted that people would go to bed and within a few days no matter what they did, they died. He also observed that the temperature did not always resemble the pneumonia type.

Dr. Mc Lachlan endeavored to find some explanation for such high mortality rates in the 1918 – 1919 pandemic. He noted that fruits of all kinds are the diet for influenza patients. “Such patients will nearly always eat fruit, when every other kind of food is repugnant to them.” He speculated whether or not the influenza was due to a specially virulent micro- organism, other than the usual influenza bacillus; or if it was the old influenza bacillus running riot in a population with low resistance due to the first world war rationing orders, especially the absence of fat and sugar from the diet and an absence of a free supply of fruit, especially fruits containing citric acid.

Dr. Robertson Day indicated that the best prophylaxis was to eat well, sleep well, and avoid overwork and fatigue. He noted that patients who were having isotonic sea - water treatment proved singularly immune to influenza. Either they escaped entirely or had a very slight attack.
Dr. Mc Lachlan was careful to teach all of his patients not to concern themselves about the height of the temperature:
“that it is necessary, and under the circumstances, only beneficial to the patient; that to do anything to lower it forcibly is to do great injury to the patient, and may be the means of causing him to lose his life. I tell them that the temperature is merely the heat of conflict between the powers that make for health an those that are making for death; and that to lower the temperature forcibly while all the other symptoms of the disease are untouched is playing into the enemy’s hands – in other words, helping the forces that are making for death. I tell them that ,within common sense limits, the higher the temperature the better, as it shows that powers in the body fighting against death are still strong…….It would be well for the health and life of the nation were the great and growing army of antipyretic drugs sunk for ever to the bottom of the sea.

Best
Brad

1. Statistics can be misleading.

If I tell you that 1 in every 1000 patients will suffer complications from measles yet only 1 in 100,000 suffer complications from the vaccine the benefits of the vaccine seem to clearly outweigh the risks. But how many people would have contact with the disease in an epidemic? How many would need to receive the vaccine to prevent an epidemic? If 1000 people are likely to contract the disease in an epidemic but a million people need the vaccine to prevent one, the scales start to tip and the statistics look decidedly less convincing.

Furthermore, is there a reason that some people suffer complications from a natural disease that is mild in 999/1000 people? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the incidence of complications from the natural disease, other than immunisation? For example, measles complications are well documented to be related to nutritional deficiencies in many cases.

2. I just can't get over the fact that when my mum was a little girl, people used to have measles parties!!! The disease was evidently not as feared then (when most people had experience of it) as it is today (when most doctors have never seen it).

3. Forget autism - it is a red herring. We should be more concerned about the vast number of autoimmune diseases that are now so prevalent in industrialized societies- most of which were unheard of prior to mass immunisation.

Here's some text from the informed parent website:

------------------------
One important aspect that is rarely raised is the procedure itself. Parents are often told that receiving a vaccine is like having a mild dose of the disease. This is totally incorrect as in normal circumstances virus or bacteria enter the human system through the mouth or nose, triggering a natural immune response. By vaccinating, our first line of defense, the skin, is punctured and the vaccine is introduced directly into the body by-passing one branch of the immune system entirely.

In recent years, because of the growth in knowledge on the immune system, there has been a growing concern amongst some scientists that wrongly stimulating the immune system could lead to a skewed system. The implications of skewing the Th1/Th2 immunity is explained simply by Hilary Butler, a vaccine researcher. She explains - 'The Th1 system is the "search and destroy" defence of the body and "sets in motion a clear sequence of events which have the focus of 'find that thing, collect it, show us what it is and at the same time destroy it".

The Th2 is the other side of the linking circle. It is called humoral immunity, and takes place further down the line than cellular (Th1) immunity. About the same time as the Th1 immune system is surrounding, killing and getting rid of the problem, particles of the 'problem' are being presented to the cells which make antibodies. In order for there to be a long-lasting antibody response, there must be a strong Th1 response. These immune responses work hand-in-hand, but a healthy immune system is Th1 focused, since "search and destroy" is the most needed capacity of the immune system in every day life.

'Vaccines injected into babies do not in any way, shape or form resemble an inhaled or swallowed germ because they are changed, attenuated, and injected as multi-antigens into the body. Consequently, because of the by-passing of the Th1 branch of the system there is over-stimulation of the Th2 branch, which teaches the body to be in a chronically reactive mode. People who have allergies, asthma and auto-immune disease have what is known as a Th2-skewed immune system.'
-------------------------------------

The truth is that nobody really knows the effects that vaccines have on our health. Some of these autoimmune diseases are listed on the vaccine inserts as known adverse effects of the vaccine. You can be sure that that a causal link has been unequivocally proven because the pharmaceutical companies will fight tooth and nail before they list something like Multiple Sclerosis as a possible consequence of using their product.

Do the benefits outweigh the risks? How can anyone decide until the risks have been clearly identified.

If there is even a slight possibility that vaccines could be the cause of the vast number of autoimmune diseases so prevalent in modern societies we should be extremely concerned. To continue to immunize on such a massive scale while this possibility remains seems unwise to say the least, especially when causal links between vaccines and autoimmune diseases are being clearly identified.

4. Does injecting a substance that contains mercury, formaldehyde, antifreeze, animal proteins, viruses, etc into your blood stream sound like a healthy thing to do to you? Do really think that sounds like a good idea- whatever the statistical evidence?

"Does injecting a substance that contains mercury, formaldehyde, antifreeze, animal proteins, viruses, etc into your blood stream sound like a healthy thing to do .................................................. .................."

Dont forget to add the ingr. Aborted fetus parts to your list
full list at: National Vaccine Information Center

From a homeopathic point of view: vaccine chemical toxins are one of the most powerfull poisons that cross the dna/blood barrier into a quantum leap of miasms(sycotic miasm). A study of vaccine adverse reactions show symptoms of a sycotic latent predisposition. The activation of this toxic load into our immune system awakens this beast.
An allopath has NO clue as to what to look for,they are in the dark when it comes to vaccine adverse reactions,brainwashed by the FDA/AMA. A classical homeopath picks up on these symptoms immed. Via a case analysis antisycotic miasmaticwell indicated remedies can be prescribed.

__________________
"Great ideas often recieve violent opposition from mediocre minds"...................Einstein

Hi. I decided to stop the vaccinations when they told me this year that my daughter had to get not just 1 ... but 2 chicken pox vaccinations. Are they nuts?? What is so wrong with the chicken pox? And when these girls get the chicken pox years from now, won't their children have a high risk for birth defects?

I told a friend of mine I had had enough and she gave me a book to read on the dangers of vaccinations. I couldn't believe it. They were saying SIDS is related to the DPT shot, etc. Then I started reading all of these horror stories online about babies dying shortly after gettting the DPT shot.

Sounds like I have been brainwashed all of these years.

I think it's all about money. The world is getting greedier by the minute.