Hello,

I am new here and what I see is that the basic threads that have alot of input are the ones where opinions are used very abundantly. it seems that homoepathy is being 'shake downed' to see if it is real. I do not mean this in a 'wrong' way; on the contrary this is very good. Better to know than follow blindly. I was hoping to see more real discourse over real cases and not theoretical conjecture; but this is quite alright.
We know that homoeopathy is not a 'messahic' type of thing; so it is best to put it perspective of what we want to use it for. Which is to heal (hopefully). But distortions do happen and maybe we can get ourselves on track. I suggest we share (truths only) cases helped (in our opinion), holding back remedy name, and see what others have to say.

I will start. A recent situation which is more of a proving yet the complaint has receded and mental benefits to.

This case was taken from a very casual conversation with a female I know.(by the way most of my prescribing and accessing is done on the casual, so observations play a big role. People just don't have the time and further more people tend to clam-up or get too wordy when they are aware that i am accessing .) I obtained info as well as the time allowed. "oh I have this crack in my lip (lower middle)" "It really hurts" I noticed sunken eyes and a sort of frown upon saying this; I access this as not irritability but more sad bUt by no means extreme. Eyes are sunken .I start talking about lunch and she reveals (by chance??) that she has been I guess for awhile really liking sour things. well she had to go . well I dont write stuff done , somehow I store it long enough to rep it (books) and I come up with ???. I am not bashfull so I buy a fresh bottle of ????30c and carry it with me (I do these things) and give it to her to take. She does so in front of me and we part. Time passes and i see this lip is getting real bad and she is looking really indifferent to the situation. started to talk badly about here appearance and I am wondering. weell 2weeks go by and lip healed , mental attitude much better. Though she said that a stye came out on her lower eyelid (left), she didn't remember ever having it before. We part and I feeel i helped; But still not as thorough or effectivly as i hoped. Still learning.

There is no more info. What do you think?


John

Fair enough. But had you done something different, a prayer perhaps, or a laying on of hands, how do you know that the outcome would have been different?

Sebastian,

I do not know. I wish I did.

John

Hit-and-miss prescribing like that is common amongst the Vithoulkas school of thought.

Would you care to attempt to justify it according to Hahnemann's method and every other legitimate Hahnemannian/classical homeopath in history?

Hahnemann from Contrast of the Old and the New Systems of Medicine, paragraph 30 (http://www.minutus.org/contrast.htm):

"Now admitting, what likewise cannot be denied, that, in order to cure, the main business of the physician consists in KNOWING BEFOREHAND the medicine from which A CURE IS MOST CERTAINLY TO BE EXPECTED [emphasis mine, meaning the simillimum], he must, seeing that a cure by medicines takes place only by reason of an alteration effected in the state of the health, above all things know beforehand what alterations in man’s health the several medicines can effect, before he selected one of them for administration, if he do not wish to be guilty for a criminal inconsiderateness, and an unpardonable attack upon human life;- for if every powerful medicine can make the healthy sick, an ignorantly selected, consequently an unsuitable, medicine must necessarily render the patient worse than he was."

A deeper consideration involves finding the person's simillimum ("thing most similar") rather than merely one of the many simile drugs with which cases are zig zagged to cure over a much longer period of time and rarely successfully.

Throwing medicines into people is a bit off the scale compared to anything else, for we affect them deeply if close or perfectly, but only perfectly or ideally really produces a cascade effect over a long period that manifests through Hering's Laws of Cure because the organism then takes command over the situation rather than us wrangling it to order.

Does that make sense?

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From Kent's REPERTORY (http://homeoint.org/books/kentrep1/kent0355.htm#P357):

FACE, cracked lips (K357): Agar., ail., aloe., alum., am-c., am-m., ambr., ant-t., arn., ars., Arum-t., aur., bapt., bar-c., bell., bism., bov., Bry., calc-s., Calc., caps., carb-ac., carb-an., Carb-s., Carb-v., caust., cham., chel., chin-a., Chin., cimic., colch., con., cop., cor-r., croc., cupr., dros., Graph., guare., ham., hell., ign., iris., jatr., kali-ar., kali-bi., kali-c., kali-i., kali-p., kali-s., kalm., kreos., Lach., mag-m., merc-c., merc., mez., nat-a., nat-c., Nat-m., nicc., nit-ac., nux-v., par., ph-ac., phos., plat., plb., puls., rhus-t., sabad., sel., sil., spig., squil., stram., Sulph., tab., tarax., ter., verat., zinc.

lower lip : Apis., cham., cimic., nat-c., nit-ac., phos., Sep.

middle of : Agar., am-c., aur-m., cham., dros., hep., nat-m., puls.

That's one symptom rubric.

For an unambiguous prescription, you'd need for there to be at least three uncommon symptoms.

Do you think that is an uncommon symptom?

I'll provisionally grant it is rare, and that suffices.

Can you show me two others?

If I grant that sunken eyes is uncommon, we see this list:

EYES sunken (K267): Acet-ac., aeth., agar., am-c., anac., ant-c., Ant-t., arg-n., arn., ars-i., ars., aster., bar-m., bell., berb., bufo., cadm., calc., camph., canth., carb-s., carb-v., cedr., chel., chin-a., chin-s., Chin., chlor., cic., cimic., Cina., coc-c., coca., colch., coloc., crot-h., cupr., cur., cycl., dros., ferr-ar., ferr-p., ferr., glon., graph., haem., hell., iod., iris., kali-ar., kali-br., kali-c., kali-i., kali-p., kreos., lach., lith., lyc., merc-c., merc., morph., naja., nit-ac., nux-v., oena., olnd., op., ox-ac., petr., ph-ac., phos., phyt., plat., plb., podo., Puls., raph., rob., sang., Sec., sep., spong., stann., staph., stram., stry., sulph., tab., ter., teucr., thuj., til., upa., verat., vip., zinc.

If I then grant that desiring sour foods and drinks is uncommon, remembering that food desires are rarely characteristic symptoms compared with aversions since everyone should relish tastes, we have these two rubrics:

STOMACH, Desires pungent things ((K486): Ars., aster., cist., fl-ac., hep., lac-c., nat-p., ph-ac., sang.

Desires sour, acids, etc. : Alum., alumn., am-c., am-m., ant-c., ant-t., apis., arg-n., arn., ars., arund., bell., bol., bor., brom., bry., calc-s., calc., carb-an., carb-s., carb-v., cham., chel., chin-a., chin., cist., con., conv., Cor-r., corn., cub., cupr., dig., elaps., ferr-ar., ferr-m., ferr-p., ferr., fl-ac., gran., Hep., hipp., ign., kali-ar., kali-bi., kali-c., kali-p., kali-s., kreos., lach., mag-c., mang., med., merc-i-f., nat-m., phel., phos., plb., podo., psor., ptel., puls., rhus-t., sabad., sabin., sec., sep., squil., stram., sul-i., sulph., thea., ther., thuj., ust., Verat., ziz.

Is that your case?

-----

Next, per the requirements named on page 121 of THE CHRONIC DISEASES (http://homeoint.org/books/hahchrdi/hahchr12.htm#P120) identifying high-potency pseudo-homeopaths (HPHs), would you care to then justify that prescription per a verbatim match of symptoms according to the Law of Similars?

Where is the materia-medica comparison required by the Law of Similars, which says that symptoms match?

[ 17. October 2003, 13:56: Message edited by: Hahnemannian444 ]

__________________
Albert, also Hahnemannian444B

Hello Albert,
Vithoulkas prescribes on 1 symptom hit and miss?
Thats complete news to me!
ITs wierd now people get such biased views of other approaches/people and then remain fixed and rigid in those biases.


Hi John,
Interesting what happened.
IT always helps to make a prescription based on complete information - complete case history with past history, mental symptoms, etc, all with a chronological understanding. Then one has an idea of why the remedy worked or what was the response expected with the first prescription.

There could be various interpretations of the reponse above, depening on whether the remedy was a partial similimum, close similimum or not a similimum at all. ANd I think that could be judged only based on a complete history, taking into account changes at all levels and symptoms to know if one has suppressed things (even in a palliation) or really moved things towards a cure.

HOpe this does not sound dismissive. Maybe I misread your intent to present a case with scanty details and information.
For me to make a serious analysis or debate on what happened in this situation, I'd want to have more details right at the outset.

warm regards,
doctorleela

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http://www.homeopathy2health.com

Hello,

Hahn444- I see that you encourage me to be more thorough ; which is reassuring to me. I seem to be a bit impatient with prescribing; missing or neglecting this or that. I have not stopped and will not stop learning or attempting to learn.By your advice careful rep work gives me a guide . Thank you .

Dr. Leea- You do not sound dismissive .Your wording sounds of experience ; not just textbook.
yes, prescribing requires more acute observation on my part. The more thorough the better . This seems to be a common theme concerning my approach.
I will find a way by study and practise.Careful case working is the message I recieve from you.Thank you.

Yet, will anyone play this game ? what remedy was prescribed? (the lip was more blistery ,swelled with a crack)

Please ,other cases will be good exercise, if willing to share.

Thank you both, again.

John

Hi John, for the game and for the exercise!

Also assuming that the remedy was prescribed on 'keynotes':
Pulsatilla.

So the response would be an aggravation (with medicinal/proving symptoms) followed by an amelioration. But this is a very ambigious situation for proper assessment for reasons I mentioned above.

Warm regards,
Dr. Leela

PS: For the sake of evidence for the above here are the rubrics:

FACE; CRACKS; lips; lower; middle of (K357, G301)
FACE; HIPPOCRATIC (K378, G319) (Emaciation) (Sunken)
"Appeared SAD, not irritable"

(after the remedy)
FACE; SWELLING; lips; lower (K393, G333)
MIND; INDIFFERENCE, apathy; pain, to (SI-619)
EYE; STIES; lids; lower (K266, G224)

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http://www.homeopathy2health.com

Hello,

Well, I have recently chatted with this person and she reveals that "I don't know why but I think that stuff I took (remedy) has made me closer to my family. I see I have not been really into anything they have been doing lately. And oh Yeh I am starting to feel much better about my appearance".

Dr. Leela , I took a very sketchy case (need to improve). I thought Pulsitilla but I didn't give her that; perhaps it would have been more to the "heart' of the matter. Things seem to be unfolding, perhaps. thank you for 'playing'.

What do you think at this point?

Thank you

John

Hi John,
I'm not sure what you have interpreted from her being unhappy or happy with her appearance. What IS her appearance like?
Also what would being indifferent or closer to her family mean without details of how the relationships actually were?

There is one clinical phenomenon I have observed. When a remedy prescribed is partially similar, it will help the patient partially but produce various symptoms that are not necesarily "proving" symptoms or strictly "medicinal aggravation" but are actually NEW symptoms that when repertorizing along with the old or prominent symptoms (new picture) lead one to the correctly indicated remedy.

That could possibly be the explanation of what happened in this case.
All the best!
doctorleela

PS; MAybe you gave Sepia or Nat mur.

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http://www.homeopathy2health.com

doctorleela,

Will you please explain how & why it can happen? It looks like an important point to be understood.

Regards.

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Homeopathic & Biochemic system existed because Drs.Hahnemann & Schuessler thought differently.
Successful people don't do different things, they do things differently..S.Kh.