I posted comments about Causticum at the discussion entitled Bothrops Lanc. Remedy and here report the paper and findings I mentioned:

"Causticum: Cauterizing Agent or Masquerade?

"Andreas Grimm, Ph.D.

"CLASSICAL HOMOEOPATHY QUARTERLY 3/92

"Vol. 5 (1992), No. 3, pp. 83-93


“1. Introduction

“Causticum Hahnemanni is doubtless the most controversial preparation found in the Materia Medica. Even in Hahnemann’s lifetime, while its medicinal effects never seemed to have been questioned, its chemical composition was frequently the subject of strife among homoeopathic physicians. The ‘true nature’ of Causticum was then and is today the subject of much speculation. The question of its ingredients is not merely of theoretical interest, it also has some relevance to daily practice. Certainty in a drug therapy by means of the law of similars is possible only if the medicine given to the patient is identical to that used in the provings. (In order to verify this correspondence, it is necessary to either clarify the chemical composition or to ascertain the adherence, during the manufacturing process, to the original procedure.) As a matter of fact, although it is one of the polychrests, Causticum is not listed in the (German) homoeopathic pharmacopoeia (HAB I). It would seem that 150 years after its conception the time has come to attempt a conclusive clarification of its chemical composition.

“2. Comments on the Chemical History of Causticum

“In 1830, Hahnemann described ‘Causticum, the cauterizing agent,’ in his ‘Chronic Diseases,’ Vol. 4, and entered it into the materia medica. Its definitive formulation appeared in the second edition in 1837. Hahnemann believed that his discovery of Causticum represented a better and purer product than the ‘tinctura acris’ he mentioned first in the ‘Fragmenta’ and later in the ‘Materia Medica Pura,’ and he praises the anti-psoric qualities of his new preparation…

“3. My own Experiments

“In order to again take up the question of the substances that constitute Causticum Hahnemanni, we first need a genuine historical appreciation of the steps Hahnemann took in its preparation, and second, we must apply modern analytical methods with which to control the individual steps. Therefore, we must first reconstruct Hahnemann’s procedure.

“3.1 Hahnemann’s Preparation of Causticum

“His instructions are found in the ‘Chronic Diseases’ (pp. 558-559) as quoted below…

“3.2 The Duplication of Hahnemann’s Preparation

“In order to be able to truly duplicate Hahnemann’s technique, it was necessary to become acquainted with the utensils he had at his disposal, with the conditions in his laboratory and with the original chemical substances used by him. Hahnemann himself is probably the best source of information on this matter, as he gives excellent descriptions of the procedure in his Apothekerlexikon…

“What did we find? The final product Causticum turned out to be the ‘watery, thickish magma’ distillate of products of reaction….But whence come the qualities so extensively described by Hahnemann, namely the odor of ‘acrid potassium lye,’ the drawing together and burnt taste, the lowering of the freezing temperature and the rapid decomposition of meat submerged in it?

“…All the above indications thus support the contention that Causticum Hahnemanni consists of potassium lye.

“3.3 The Analysis of our own Causticum

“In order to find out if substances could get into the distillate by using our still, we distilled 250 ml. of water before starting our experiment. Analyses carried out in accordance with the methods prescribed by the German Pharmacopoeia (DAB 9) revealed no natrum, potassium, ammonium or sulphur ions. Our Causticum preparation, the distillate of the reaction products, did, however, reveal some potassium ions, but no ammonium ions could be discerned…so that we must regard weak potassium lye to be the secret ingredient in Causticum…

“4. Discussion and Results

“In the presentation of his Causticum, Hahnemann indeed erroneously assumed that it was possible to isolate ‘the caustic force’ of alkaline metals. This misconception must, however, be viewed in light of the historical vantage point of chemical science in his day. On the other hand, it is entirely incomprehensible how the mistaken concepts of his contemporaries and successors could have survived to the present and how the manufacturing pharmacies could have accepted unquestionably. Apparently no one to this day considered it necessary to reproduce Hahnemann’s experiment exactly according to the conditions prevailing at his time.

“It is imperative for the quality of a homoeopathic remedy that it be in complete concurrence with the actual remedy as proven, from which the symptoms listed in the materia medica were derived. Any ‘improvements’ in its manufacturing process through the application of modern methods, which ultimately furnish a product other than the one that was proven, are misleading the practitioner! This also raises the question as to how the hitherto achieved therapeutic successes with Causticum could be obtained, since the remedy contains ammonium causticum instead of the original kali causticum.

“This may be the proper forum to point out two facts: The relationship of the homoeopathic pharmacists to the homoeopathic physicians is entirely different from that customary in the practice of medicine based on the principles of the natural sciences. In the latter case, the physician receives and distributes the furnished products. In homoeopathic practice, however, the physician’s work precedes that of the pharmacist to whom he delegates the manufacturing (i.e., he must delegate it today), in order to obtain what is required according to the homoeopathic law of healing, that is, a product completely identical to the proven material. The essence of homoeopathy, the scientific healing according to the law of similars, can only be guaranteed through this procedure.

“It is thus imperative to expand the materia medica by verifying the actual cases cured by means of ammonium causticum instead of kali causticum as they relate to the presence of ammonium causticum symptoms.”

[ 17. July 2003, 11:30: Message edited by: Hahnemannian444B ]

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Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904

Albert, thank you. Had looked for some information re Hahnemann's causticum after your first mention but was unable to locate anything pertinent.

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Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Albert, thank you for posting this article.

BUT I STILL DO NOT GET IT! Must be something with the water...

If Hahnemann made kali causticum which was then proven then why they can't make it today the way he did?

(And if they are making ammonia causticum instead then it is a totaly different stuff-did they prove it? But of course I don't care about that one).
Do you know if M.Quinn makes kali causticum?

[ 17. July 2003, 21:04: Message edited by: Astra2012 ]

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Astra<br /><br />"Difficult cases take some time to be cured,<br />impossible - a little longer."

Is there a specific proving of ammonium causticum?

I can't blame it on water-we have filters-so I read the article again.
And checked some h. pharmacies on the Internet. Some say they have KALI CAUSTICUM -The one that was used in provings?
Or was it still something else?
We probably were reading the same article about it (ie the one that you posted) but maybe, somehow, you understood it better.
Astra

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Astra<br /><br />"Difficult cases take some time to be cured,<br />impossible - a little longer."

Astra,

You said: "I can't blame it on water-we have filters-so I read the article again.
And checked some h. pharmacies on the Internet. Some say they have KALI CAUSTICUM -The one that was used in provings?
Or was it still something else?
We probably were reading the same article about it (ie the one that you posted) but maybe, somehow, you understood it better."

Several issues there.

A person does not need a medicine because of some poisoning; they need it because it's the substance that matches their symptoms.

Sometimes we will see poisonings counteracted by their substance in potency, but that rarely works and falls into isopathy with piles of explanations as to why it does not work.

But you're thinking in terms of causation or eitology, which has only to do with pathology and thus prevention and avoidance of the "sustaining cause," not with therapeutics.

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I doubt that any pharmacies use a graft of Causticum from Hahnemann's pharmacy in Leipsig; possible but unlikely.

The issue is thus a real problem.

This only goes to show how nobody reads the writings of Hahnemannians, and their journals always collapse financially because they're not supported by the HPHs, who nonetheless always support their own journals.

Very sad to me.

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I doubt that any article from the CHQ is online.

Moreover, I haven't yet found even one website for Hahnemannian homeopathy.

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I'll take this issue to Borneman, the head of the United States Homeopathic Pharmacopia Convention.

He'll know.

Will report back.

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Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904

You could try getting some from this mob.
http://www.gudjons.com/vorwort.htm

Click on the word Arzneimittelliste and then scroll down to Causticum H, click again. If you want to order some click on the word Bestellung down the bottom of the main page and fill in the order form.

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Edit:

From what I can understand in this article, "Causticum, Ätzstoff oder Phantasieprodukt?"
when Hahnemann originally produced this remedy he noted the very sharp, burning, alkaline, corrosive quality of the substance and named the remedy Causticum Hahnemanni. Whenever later homoeopaths have tried to reproduce the recipe there seems to be some kind of chemical contamination that occurs and the active ingredient is ammoniumcarbonate, or else (gasp!) there is only water.
So noone has been getting the same results as Hahnemann did.
But now, according to Erst Grimm (funny how names befit a person) he has been able to reproduce a light, corrosive kali something or other version of Causticum effectively putting to rest the 150 year old the debate about whether or not Hahnemann's Causticum was only theoretical, blah blah.
Any Germans here to lend a hand?

[ 18. July 2003, 08:38: Message edited by: chrisg ]

Astra,

You said: "Do you know if M.Quinn makes kali causticum?"

No, I didn't; hadn't come up yet because I get so few cases that this paper from 10 years ago has not been addressed yet.

Thank you very much.

Didn't much surprise me, though, for he is the only mostly reliable and devoted homeopathic pharmacist I have found in North America since the others seem to produce only fluxion potencies and are more in the nature of corporations.

Actually, I don't know enough to say that in toto, but I like Michael's nature and devotion to reestablish our pharmacy so that the lower potencies are as powerful as they're supposed to be, which is not so much seen with fluxion potencies.

I still want legitimate Q-potencies, though.

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Edit addition: OOps! Look at me; I didn't read what you said and thought you said he did.

Well, he is the one here who should if he doesn't yet.

Somebody tell him.

[ 18. July 2003, 00:18: Message edited by: Hahnemannian444B ]

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Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904

Astra,

You said: "If Hahnemann made kali causticum which was then proven then why they can't make it today the way he did?"

The rest of the article gives such history.

Want me to fill in the gaps?

If so, I'm awaiting permission for such things from Karl F. Haug Verlag (Publishers) and the authors.

It's a good question, though, and it irritates me that every pharmacist since Hahnemann has messed it up.

It's one of those gazillion details Hahnemann had to pay attention to, and I suppose he felt he gave explicit enough directions that legitimate pharmacists and Hahnemannians would insist upon it.

They made their own drugs, so it's not an issue that directly affected Hahnemann and his crowd.

I further noticed that the author didn't say which homeopathic pharmacist in Europe now makes it correctly.

Wouldn't do us any good, though, for it is tough to get German pharmacies to sell us drugs, at least in my experience.

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Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904

kkrista,

You asked: "Is there a specific proving of ammonium causticum?"

Don't know.

Good question.

This is Hans' level of observation.

Somebody ask him to explain what we think and do about this.

Sorry, I did it.

[ 19. July 2003, 07:21: Message edited by: Hahnemannian444B ]

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Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904