Disease is born of like things, and by the attack of like things people are healed - Hippocrates


If the person who acts like they are being chased by a lion..(therefore, delusional...and needs remedy..because inappropriate..there is no lion)..and he gets into a real life situation...he is at the circus...and a circus lion gets out of control and starts for the crowd...just where he is sitting and everyone gets up and runs...he included...shouldn't this experience cure him of his delusion?

HMM--
someone who acts like being sick, I.E. claiming to have pains etc. = del. sick is?
someone who acts like a homeopath = del, homeopath is,?????
Where does it end?

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Hans Weitbrecht
Consultant Homeopath

Carol,
I think you should avoid making posts of this kind, as it leads to mis-representations of people's thinking, taken out of context.

ITs important to have an open mind in understanding various schools of thought. These are all intelligent people sticking their necks out for ideas that they have observed in their massive clinical practices.

One uses the best that each of these brilliant people have to offer, clinically, to help the patient and cure them with homeopathy.

Making these type of posts though undermines this and leaves them open to ridicule.

best regards,
doctorleela

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http://www.homeopathy2health.com

Actually, I was quite sincere in my questioning. Looks like I'm not going to get an answer from the sankaran camp.

It reminds me of something I read by victor frankel(wrong spelling)about people in concentration camps. Some people just collapsed under those conditions...people who normally functioned well in the outside world...whereas the neurotics came out of their problems and were an actual help and inspiration to other prisoners.

I think this is more akin to 'desensitization training' than Sankaran. The problem with the example in relation to Sankaran and homeopathy is that the 'delusion' would not just be limited to the lion. In other words, the delusion of being chased would be just one expression of a broader state.

[ 10. June 2003, 13:56: Message edited by: David A. Johnson ]

Dear Carol,
As David said, this may not be termed "Sankaran thinking" but probably a broader psychological phenomenon of reaction that Sankaran has used in explanation of a phenomenon he has observed in practice.

I'm glad you mentioned your SINCERITY in questionning, as its also good when people ANSWER with sincerity.

From what I understand about Sankaran's ideas, is that he observed that people seemed to be in a fixed mode of reaction emotionally and physically similar to a miasmatic state - and this state is what he terms a "delusional".

In a TUbercular state (Pseudo Psora), its like a last ditch attempt and survival mechanism presenting in their emotional responses as well as physical responses of which the disease of tuberculosis is an expression.

Similarly in a sycotic state, the person reacts sluggishly with lack of reactivity emotionally, and physically and there is overgrowth of tissues - warts, benign tumours.

Sankaran has taken this type of understanding to the individual remedy level where a "delusion" that was obtained in the proving has been made use of to understand a facet of this reactive state both at the emotional and physical level.

Eg: Droscera
The (central)delusions is: persecution
(This is similar to a situation at a concentration camp - since you mentioned it)

Anxiety, restlessness, rage, mistrustful [Check for the complete proving symptom to understand this.]

Physically: Indicated in condition like Pharyngeal and pulmonary Phthisis, whooping cough.
(All tubercular or Pseudopsora expressions.)

Similarly he has done so for other remedies.
ITs important to remember here that there are various ways of LEARNING remedies and understanding them for application.
One can simply learn up symptoms by rote as important 4 and 5 grade proving symptoms confirmed clinically.
OR one can have another method of understanding a remedy as a live picture of a patient presenting to you, which can have various facets of expression.

The trick is in being able to recognize the picture of disease and finding a suitable similimum, whatever the method. The method used should be suitable to ones capacity and to the patients presenting symptomatology.
Then the remedy should surely prove curative.

Hope this sheds some light on your question.

__________________
http://www.homeopathy2health.com

Okay...lets back up a second...if my memory serves me...which is questionable...the "as if a lion was chasing me" story was based on the father of the person in question actually having that experience in reality...so the "miasm" of that experience so terrifying was transferred to his child....so unless the father couldn't let go of the experience because of prior miasms rather than that it was just the scariest thing that could happen to a human being...it could be a one time thing....and the son having that experience....could it not "match" so well his on going feelings...that the relief from actually escaping the lion becomes permanent? It gave "MEANING" to his experience...and that is what the neurotic prisoners in the camps had been missing in their lives...meaning. (that book by frankl..."the search for meaning")

Or has the son created now a more engrafted miasm for his unborn children and their children, etc. And is this what Hans was talking about in a roundabout way...that it never ends?(even tho he slipped his bias in there)

Anyway...I'm going to go back and find the passage in sankaran and read more about it...it was about 4 years ago that i read it. I remember being fascinated by what i reading and then he started talking about coped states and I just didn't get it after that...which states needed a remedy and which states didn't. I think I need about 5 more iq points...maybe ten.. to understand that stuff.

Sometimes the anecdotal stuff can be more interesting in explaining things than the regular old stuff...not that homeopaths as a group are interested in explaining anything...for the most part...they just want to do their craft and heal people. But certainly...people heal from deep miasmatic problems without homeopathy...and it might be easier to understand how that happened in "real life" as opposed to homeopathic life. Homeopathy is so subltle...you can be on a train of thought that is going nowhere and leaves you in a depression and you're sinking...and a remedy comes along ...and one simple thought might change the whole scenario...one simple thought takes you on a whole new path....and I'm sure most clients miss that one little thought that changes the course..and so they don't exactly even believe that it was homeopathy that changed them...

But profound 'one liner thoughts' can happen to us without homeopathy...that make a deep impression. As in the son and the lion..."geez, I'm glad thats over..." ..and it is...

Carol,
Sankarn talked about Ghandi -- his pathology --- and then his son (who died a drug addict or something like that ) who took on his dad's 'pathology' of indignance even though he hadn't lived through what his dad lived through. Maybe that's the example from Sankaran you're thinking about.

Hahnemann talks about homeopathic cures (without homeopathic remedy substances) in the Organon....he gives several examples in one of the footnotes. I'll try and locate which footnote it is and post it for you. Yes, situations can be cured homeopathically without a remedy -- loosely put. Again - I'll post it when I find it. Dr Leela - can you remember which one it is?? (hello, btw )

I totally agree with Austin's last post.

Sometimes the absolutely most curative thing which happens in case taking occurs when a patient makes an observation which is truly profound, stultifyingly true, and unbelievably unobserved before our conversation.

Eg: here's a skeleton version of one of my favourite cases: A patient presenting with complaints of fibromyalgia, raynaud's disease, migraine, exhaustion, and 2 cases of mono or mono-like diseases in history, at age 11 and again at age 17.

After taking the case with the patient and patient's partner in consult, I made arrangements to phone back pt. later on that evening (we had run out of time, pt's partner had to go to another appt., and I needed more information).
Things were just getting good--pt. was telling of a recurrent, seemingly life-long dream of sleeping in bed, alone, and hearing door of house open; hearing footsteps approach stairs and then bed, hearing and feeling...but not seeing...intruder forcing himself onto now awake, hiding, and terrified but helpless pt., in bed...when pt.'s partner had to go and we stopped our discussion.

I sent patient home with the question: what was going on in your life when you were 11 years old?

Later when I called, pt. was alone in home and answered this question. Pt. babysat sister's children at this age and was repeatedly molested by brother-in-law, who would wait for his children to be put to bed before attacking. Pt. usually put the children to bed and would then go to bed for the evening too, and sure enough, the attacker would creep into the patient's bedroom, climb on bed, cover pt's eyes and attempt to rape pt.
Finally pt. was able to extricate self from baby sitting duties and fell ill with first bout of mononucleosis.

This memory had been suppressed for many years.

I waited for the pt. to finish telling me this story on the phone, asked for clarificaton regarding the pt's emotional state (trembling and angry, tearful), and then exclaimed, "Hey, do you realize that what you describe is almost exactly the same as your recurrent nightmare?"

Pt. agreed, shocked, seeing the similarity of the dream with the suppressed memory for the first time. Back came the anger, the feelings of helplessness, the tension of the situation, the fear of speaking about it openly...and the pt. understood why the body was actually behaving as if it were still in hiding, under the covers, avoiding the assault, avoiding being "discovered" as part of this collection of events. Muscles tensed, keeping perfectly still, terrified, hands and feet cold and paralysed by limited movement--and doing this for so long exhaustion set it. Pt. realised the similarity of physical symptoms to the situation described.

All I had to do then was pick a remedy good enough not to get in the way of the curative realisation the pt. had made.

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...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

the basic principle of psychoanalysis is recovering repressed memories (as the sexual assault on Divina's patient) - the recovery of childhood trauma relieves the neurotic/symptomatic defences established in the meantime by the patient's unconscious process. in this way, as others, i have felt for some time there is a pretty deep parallel between psychoanalytic and homeopathic ideas and practice. the analytic reconstruction of an individual's psychic history can be enormously rich and rewarding and healing (L. Bryce Boyer, 'Working with a Borderline Patient,' The Psychoanalytic Quarterly, 1977, vol. xlvi no. 3, pp. 386-424); the homeopathic cure is more 'direct' and certain - i am unclear how much occurs in terms of recovered memories with homeopathy, but certainly enrichment of experience is not to be faulted.

carol's question cuts across methods and clinical assessment. one psychiatrist dressed up as julius caesar to confront his patient with the same delusion, and cured the guy, or at least snapped him out of it momentarily. you run into this kind of story now and then. similar cures similar can probably be viewed symptom by symptom as well as more globally: matching the total personality to the remedy (roughly, constitutional assessment vs. symptomatic description, or, pyschologically, character analysis as compared to DSM-IV symptom collections).

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"The need to perform adjustments for covariates...weakens the findings." BMJ Clinical Evidence: Mental Health, (No. 11), p. 95.... It's that simple, guys: bad numbers make bad science.