Greetings I fellow medical community!
I is just finishing my first year at The norwegian academy for natural medicine. I signed up for the natureopath line but now I am getting more and more interested in homeopathy. I have one problem ...a few og the homeopatic medicines are made from animals...and I am a vegen. Is this a subject much debated in the homeopatic community? Could I practice homeopathy without using these types of medicine? I realy need some input!
Give Thanks!
Yah love
Lion I

Hi!

This subject never seemed to come up at all when I was in school, and it doesn't seem to trouble anyone I treat or meet at seminars or conferences. Maybe it is an issue for some people, but many of the patients and prescribers of homeopathic medicines I know are vegetarians and it hasn't come up, to my knowledge.

It's an interesting point, though.

Would a vegan mother not feed her infants her own breast milk?

Does it matter at all that none of the original substance is present in the remedy--that often it is diluted so much that none of it is measurably left? Would it matter that the water molecules would "mimick" the original molecular structures of the original substance, and that they are a facsimile and not an actual animal substance at that point?

What would you do if that patient in front of you absolutely needed apis--but you couldn't give it for reasons of philosophy (bees are actually killed to make this remedy)? What if that patient were in anaphalactic shock, in critical condition, and apis fit the case and could save her/his life?

Does it matter that we are treating with "energies" and not actual material stuff?

Interesting question.

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...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

Hi Lion and welcome! We have a wonderful homeopath here, GPM, (she'll deny that she is a homeopath but she is, even if she won't admit it ) who is a vegan and I think she uses all the remedies as needed. Let's wait and see what she has to say....GPM?? You around?

Oh, I also am studying naturopathy though my "passion" is homeopathy.

Barb

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Man, do not pride yourself on your superiority to animals. For they are without sin and you in your greatness defile the earth by your appearance on it and leave traces of you foulness after you. Dostoyevsky

My daughter is a veggie and she won't take animal based remedies. However a few years ago when she was working in a well known Vegan health food shop her manager had a bite which needed Apis when she phoned me. Now there was none in the shop for obvious reasons but apparently she got hold of some that same night and took it and was cured!!
A local homeoapth phoned me when she bought a radionics machine for making remedies and told me that if I had any vegan patients who needed an animal remedy she could make it on her machine. Now I am not into machine made remedies but maybe this is the answer!!

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RSHom - Registered Homeopath

Greetings Ricky!
Give thanks for your replay! Could you please tell me what a radionics machine is? I have never heard of machine maid remedies before?
Give thanks to Divana and Barb too for your much apricieloved replays.
Yah love!
Lion I

Sorry Divina, I misspelled your name.....very late over here in Norway now....

Hi Lion,

This was discussed here rather fully a few years back. My approach is: I personally wouldn't take any remedy that was produced as a result of killing an animal. It hasn't been much of a problem for me because I don't think too many commonly used remedies require actually killing the being.

I may be wrong but I don't believe the snake remedies require terminating the snake but I can understand concern for them being kept captive to extract venom. I think milk remedies are in the same category. A true vegetarian/vegan might have a problem with the milk concept but to me it would be less offensive than real "milk", where the animals lead dismal lives to mass produce dairy products. A small amount of milk goes a long way in remedy making, unlike daily forced production in the dairy industry. Personally, I've only once used any milk remedy and that was for a squirrel. That leaves a few like pyrogenium. Personally, I'd not take it but honestly, I have it and did use it once for a cat. Reality is, I feed the cats meat (far,far worse, in my opinion) so how hypocritical would it be for me to make a stand on conscience in such a case? That leaves the insects/spiders and marine animals which all seem made with the entire "living" (?, that's how the MM's phrase it) creatures. Trying to think how many I may have used any but other than apis, I can't remember but feel certain not very often if at all. Never taken any myself nor would I. But I also would refuse any allopathic medicine which are rarely/never produced without animal testing, meaning many, many animals tortured and killed. That may be a response to a patient who questions any cruelty in producing a remedy. Tell them to read the package inserts of any medication they do or might take. They can read how many dogs (or whatever species they used) reacted in what ways to that drug.

Fortunately, it seems most remedies I use are plant or mineral. Did a fast tally and in the last two of days I've given 13 different remedies, only one was an animal/insect and that was apis. The other 12 were all minerals and plants.

Ricky's suggestion is fantastic! What a great way to administer the right frequency (which is what a remedy is) without damaging any living being to do it! (A radionics device creates a remedy by infusing liquid with the frequency of the desired remedy, in the desired potency.) The only drawback, which to me is very minor, is that some energy device produced remedies may not have the shelf life a "real" remedy might. No problem really, just have the remedy made as needed and use in a timely manner. Sure does solve the ethics issue.

Edit....a radionics device may also infuse into pellets...not sure about that.

[ 03. June 2003, 06:02: Message edited by: gpm ]

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Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

why stop at animals as a reflection of life. If minerals and other things have a vital energy.. A rock has a spirit. Why separate ourselves and the animals from the rest of creation. Nature left alone destroys. We all will die. We all will transform into something else. Now or later. Go one step further....and you will be using paper remedies for everything...but then...trees are one of the more lovelier forms of creation...Keep the boundaries expanding and they will expand forever...and you will find that you can't act any more...you'll just be watching and waiting...to die and have no more boundaries or maybe have as many as you had when you were living.

Hi again!

I'm laughing because you "changed" my name from the Italian word for "guess" (Divina) to the Italian word for couch (Divana)!!! Yikes!

I guess I have adopted a method of putting the vegan/vegetarian aspect into perspective with homeopathy. Like GPM, I believe that we are definitely in a position to choose not to eat animals and animal products, but there has to be some acknowledgment of the dictates of nature: for example, she "apologizes" for feeding her cats meat--but the truth is, cats don't survive eating anything else. Meat is the food they must have and cannot do without. Cats who eat mostly grains, cereals, and vegetables suffer terribly, as many who raise them know very well. So we must understand that it would be a greater cruelty to inflict these "choices" of veganism/vegetarianism on organisms which cannot sustain such practices.

I also think she makes an excellent point about "animal testing" which takes place in the "scientific" medical community: we must never forget how many cats and dogs--mammals of all kinds--have had to suffer, repeatedly, to produce the variety of allopathic medications people take without thinking every day. Any homeopathic remedy--even the ones which involved killed animals, are derived with a minimum of violence. The Lachesis remedy was derived from one snake, almost one hundred years ago--and this venom milking produced a great deal of homeopathic lachesis to treat millions of people. Some of the original source still exists, though by now I'm sure that the remedy has been re-sourced a few times since Hering first prepared it.

I don't know everything but I do know that nature is not the benign, happy, peaceful and fecund ideal that many people wish to believe it to be--there is a place for predation, death, and violence in its plan, whether we like it or not. It is odious but it is also absolutely necessary. On a personal level making the decision to opt out of the violence of meat eating is honourable and should be respected; however there must be an acknowledgement made to the realities of nature, which includes these ugly aspects as well as the aspects of creation, growth, beauty, and renewal.

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Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung

And, healing, Divina. You left that out. Weigh up the greater good and put it in perspective. Any extreme indicates a lack of balance - and skewed perception. Don't we all.

Rock on, Carol .