Hello,
I am posting for the first time and have a simple question: In regards to the flu remedy, oscillococcinum, the directions state to take one full vial at the onset of flu symptoms. As a client/patient, I have been told that this is not necessary...that it is ok to take just 3-5 or 8-10 tiney pellets, instead.
What do you think? I have always taken just a few, and always had success. Why are the directions written to take the whole vial? Please explain the process/reasoning for not taking the whole vial. Thank you for your quick replies. Mac

If you take the whole vial..the next flu season you have to buy another one. If you take a few out each time..even just one..you will have that remedy for the rest of your life. Whose going to make money if you do that?

Members of my study group decided to experiment a few years ago. Those who took the whole vial did better than those who took only a few pellets. Maybe the placebo action. I don't know, but I'm going to continue to take the entire vial.

__________________
Shirley Reischman

Size of the dose?!

I've thought of dissolving them in water, with alcohol as a preservative, then doing the dilute/succuss thing. Anyone ever try that with them?

__________________
"The need to perform adjustments for covariates...weakens the findings." BMJ Clinical Evidence: Mental Health, (No. 11), p. 95.... It's that simple, guys: bad numbers make bad science.

Putting the pillules in water seems to work very well; aside from that I do agree that there is something to be said for the size of the dose, particularly the size of the dry dose. I'm just not quite convinced you have to take the entire vial in order for the remedy to work very effectively.

I usually advise patients to put some pillules in water, succuss a number of times, and then take as needed...but I also tell patients to take a number of the pillules in a dry dose, wait for the amelioration to end so that their symptoms return, then redose. They can usually wait things out longer than the 6hours "prescribed" by the manufacturer, and seldom need to take any more than just one more dose (while the manufacturer tells you to redose again--using an entire vial at a time--every 6 hours or so). Next year, they will still have much of that first vial to use, plus the unopened vials in the rest of the package...so money is saved and people stay well. Naturally, the manufacturer doesn't get to sell you a new package...but there you are.

The real key to oscillococcinum's effectiveness is WHEN its used: only at the very beginning of a flu, before there is even a prodromal stage, does the remedy actually fit the case. If the patient waits too long, the remedy will do nothing because another remedy will be much more homeopathic to the case. I'm finding that patients are really sold on the cost of the product too: if a package can be made to last through the season for the entire family, then oscillococcinum becomes a very affordable, safe alternative to the "free" (but really we're all paying for them) flu vaccines being shoved aggressively at people all over the province.

__________________
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung

Back to basics. The only dose which will act curatively is the least dose, which can still affect a change. Now this is an individual situation. It can mean that any of the available potencies can be indicated and it can mean that from any of the suitable potencies any amount can be required. Now with potencies below a 12C or 30X this amount may vary but for all higher potencies a single pellet will be sufficient since you are administering the quality of Oscillococcinum, the matrix, but not any material quantity. Much more crucial I find the question whether this remedy is actually indicated. You can achieve great changes with homoeopathy and eradicate diseases and tendencies for diseases. You can do great mischieve with homoeopathics and spoil the rest of your life's health and the health of your offspring. Now Oscillococcinum would be indicated if it resembles your suffering closer then any other homoeopathic remedy, otherwise not and there are no exceptions to this rule. Homoeopathics are not designed to bring you quickly back into a functional state but they are designed to help your life force to conquer suffering per se. Now if your are prone to come down with a very similar complaint again and again and you administer the very same remedy again and again you actually increase this very weakness in yourself eventually to a stage where it is irreversible. Make sure that when you take homoeopathics that they resemble the totality of your suffering and that you apply the minimum dose, ie one pellet once only. Should the remedy not work by improving your overall health and happiness then you have failed with your choice. No problem, take your case again and administer another remedy. Make sure that you listen to the symptoms of your body and mind. Do not try to push body and mind into a state of functionality when the only thing lacking is a few days break from life's duties.

Aha, quantity of dose is dependant on potency . . .
This pose an interresting question, because what potency is oscillococcinum in, and then what quantity should be used ???
I know I have already brought this up in Pets and Animals (desperately need some help), but want to give a more complete breakdown here.
Oscillococcinum is a 200 K (that means Korsakovian) potency. The following is an extract of a research thesis for a masters degree, on this matter:

" Both CH and K potencies have apparent deconcentrations of 1/100, but CH potencies are prepared in different vials and K potencies in the same vial. To the average person (and to even the not so average - Hahnemann himself made the same mistake !) there seems to be no significant difference between the two, but a study done by Daudel and Robilliart (comented upon by Nicholson (1961)) with radioactive Potassium bromide showed that after 1000 Korsakovian dilutions there was still a weak but messurable level of radioactivity left. If was demonstrated before that after the 9 - 12th CH potency no more radioactivity could be meassured. This would suggest that the mother tincture in one way or the other is not completely removed from the sides of the vial, and traces of it are still left even after 1000 dilutions. Cazin did simmilar experiments (Frazer 1993) and found that in relation to the amount of substance, i.e. mother tincture, left, a 30K is approximately equal to a 5CH, a 200K to a 7CH, and a 1000K to a 9CH. It can thus be said that the curve od deconcentration (of the K potencies) asymptotically approaches the x axis without ever touching it."

Thus, oscillococcinum is in a "low" potency, and according to above posting must then be used in a fairly large (quantatively speaking) dose.

Interresting Dolicoccil, a newer combination remedy for flu which also includes the heart/liver extract found in oscillococcinum, includes this in the 9CH, not 200K, potency. The other two compound are Cuprum gluconicum 3DH and Echinacea angustifolia 3CH

__________________
Christiaan van Schalkwyk<br />Registered Homeopath (RSA) (M.Tech.Hom (Natal))

Dear Christiaan

Very good point. Whether is a K or CH potentisation does not matter. With a 200K or CH you will have a 200th attenuation which will act very deeply and primarily on this energetic level. It does not matter that there might be some molecules left in the vial. Your active potency would be 200. The higher potency antidotes the lower one.

I am sorry, but I totally disagree. This would be to say that a 200DH (or X) potency is the same as a 200CH, and the next we will try to equate it with a 200LM (please do not try this at home . . . !!!)
Both (de)concentration AND succussion is important in the making of the remedy, to just say "I have done it 200 times" is totally meaningless!

__________________
Christiaan van Schalkwyk<br />Registered Homeopath (RSA) (M.Tech.Hom (Natal))

Oscillococcinum is A. barbaritae 200c.
That is its potency.

K designations on a vial delineate that a Korsokoff potentizing machine was used in the serial dilution/succussion process. Finke machines are also used to prepare remedies, with a slight difference from the K machines. These designations pertain to the device used to prepare the remedy, not to the actual potency scale used or the number of dilutions and succussion. "H" denotes Hahnemannian, and is yet another preparation method with a slight variation on how each vial is diluted and succussed.

These are all different from the D or X dilution scale, and the C dilution scale.

So: 200CH is the same as 200C or 200K; 200X is the same as 200D.

However the first set is not interchangeable with the second set because different dilution scales are used.

Oscillococcinum is the only one of these remedy preparations which is actually a single remedy (the anas barbaritae 200c). All the other
"same thing as" oscillococcinums are not the same thing at all: they are your standard polypharmacy combination drugs, and they are not the same product at all.

[ 12. January 2003, 16:40: Message edited by: ChaChaHeels ]

__________________
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung