divina wrote:
just because i *can do a certain thing, is no reason why i *should do it.

i had some thoughts about why one would want to lessen the effect of the miasm, if the effect of the miasm is "beneficial"?
it appears to be a contradiction, yet we all participate in it.

i considered what happens when a child contracts one of the childhood acute miasmatic diseases:

1. the vital force is disturbed by the contagious disease influence of the miasm.
2. there is a prodromal period
3. symptoms emerge
4. then various things can happen -
a. the disease progresses in a standard way, without any cause for concern, and the child recovers without sequelae. this would be an uncomplicated case.
or
b. the disease takes on a deviant course, giving cause for concern - the end result might be persistent sequelae if a chronic miasmatic disease is stirred up by the vital force.
or
c. the patient dies because the vitality is too greatly disturbed by the acute miasm.

so, in cases such as a and b there might be 'developmental leaps' after the acute disease.
how can this be so? [regardless of any benefits from homoeoapthic medication during the acute.]
answer - in such cases it must be that the acute miasm is homoeopathic to some aspect of the previously chronic condition.
i.e. the acute miasmatic diseases have some antipsoric action.
this explains why it is acceptable to medicate for the acute childhood miasmatic diseases homoeopathically - because the medicine will stand in place of the natural disease, and continue any chronic antimiasmatic work.

it also stands to reason that cases of type b, where the patient is unusually susceptible to the acute miasmatic disease, could be those which are most likely to show developmental benefits in addition to sequelae [if not homoeopathically medicated.]
this is because in type b patients, the vital force is previously disordered in a way that makes it particularly susceptible to the acute miasm i.e. the acute miasm is especially homoeopathic to the pre-existing chronic disease condition.
in cases of type c in which the patient dies from a standard childhood disease, the miasm must be extremely homoeopathic to the chronic case, but because it is such a strong influence [unlike the transient medicinal disease of a homoeopathic remedy] it overcomes the vitality.

divina and anyone interested-

tell me if made a mistake or several mistakes of reasoning - as these are just my own thoughts.

also, tell me if in your observations of acute miasmatic childhood illness, it is type 'b' patients who have more developmental progress than type 'a' patients.

Howdy Austin,

You want to discuss: "Is the aim, in homeopathic treatment, to CURE miasms or is this a fallacy in thought? Meaning they cannot be actually cured, but 'controlled' or balanced out in some way?"

...I would say the aim is to cure the diseases caused by the miasms thereby minimizing their destructive influences and susceptibility. Not every illness is caused by a miasm.

"Are they just a part of us -- tied in some way to our genetics, as was suggested to me recently?"

...The inherited effects of miasms can be seen in the various bodily constitutions and temperaments of people.
Psora affects the skin, inner organs, and nerves more than physical structures. It affects each Hippocratic temperament in its own way. For example, the nervous or nervo-choleric constitution presents itself as a rather thin, dry, stooped shouldered, weakened individual. They may suffer from dry, dirty skin, flushes of heat, are hungry all the time, and easily feel faint if they don't get something to eat, especially around 11 am. Even if they eat well these Sulphur patients will usually lose weight and emaciate easily. They tend to be more melancholic and depressed than the jovial, full-blooded sanguine temperament.
The sanguine psoric constitution presents itself as a heavy set, large boned, barrel chested, jovial, proud, talkative, hot, sweaty individual with red nose, lips and face, who may become cruel, selfish and violent at times.

Sycosis affects the inner fluids, muscles and joints. Puffy looking people with excess of watery flesh and heavily boned structure. Warts, moles, flecks, dark discolouration with excessive hair growth.

Pseudopsora affects the lungs, blood, bones and inner membranes. People with pipe stem bones, narrow chests, red circumscribed, sunken cheeks, sparkling eyes, translucent pale skin.

Syphilis affects the blood, veins, heart, bones and brain. They have a classic 'bulldog' face. High cheekbones, thick lips, rough skin, grayish, greasy complexion, Hutchinson's teeth. Asymmetrical bony structures, arms, legs, trunk and head don't fit together well. Big heads, small bodies (shoot, that's a bit close to the bone!)

"Also, does everyone have a miasm? I read that everyone is afflicted with Psora."

...Most everyone except Hahnemann apparantly. He believed himself to be free from psora which gave him the ability to perceive its effects.

"Are the miasms contagious? I read in Chronic Diseases (as I recall it) that Psora is contagious."

...Any miasm in its active stage is contagious. A miasm can be spread through skin contact or airborne particles - depending on the miasm. Congenital miasms are passed through the mother as seen in congenital syphilis and HIV. These are also contagious and are passed through blood products. Inherited miasms are the effects of the miasms on a familial lineage. These miasms are not contagious, but their effects are passed on to the offspring.

Regards,
Chris

Big heads on small bodies, huh?

Well, then, that would include--truly--most of Hollywood, which has a misperception that these types of people photograph extremely well.

But enough about that...(though it has not escaped my notice that Hollywood and Mass Media TV is obsessed with people who "look" like the syphilitic and the pseudopsoric folk in Chris' descriptions...

Anna, I believe your type A benefits as much as type B.

The benefits are not limited to the acute miasm, either. But I already explained this.
This understanding of disease is not only homeopathic; it is a part of the doctrine of all eastern medical systems as well as ancient systems such as the science recorded by arab civilisations long ago--information Hahnemann would have had access to because of his language abilities.

Oh, yes:
The type C, of course, perish; death is part of the reality of nature for everyone and disease plays a role in the design of nature in this way too. Consider that it may not be PERSONALLY beneficial in a way we can recognize; but it may actually be beneficial to the community at large.

__________________
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung

Chris G:

I will send you info on this that I think will clarify soem issues and provide many examples of the different miasims.

I assure you Hahnneman was not fres of Psora. It is simply disease based on the need to aquire energy and I am sure he had the common cold on occassion.

Syscosis is disease based on intrusions and the need to aquire energy and sphylitic miasims are destructive in nature.

Also your physical descriptions are only partially accurate.

Also Many people will exhibit qualities or symptoms of 2 or 3 miasims at the same time.

Let me know what you think of what I send you.

Thanks
JO

I've read about miasms before. I'm beginning to formally study them only recently. Now, I feel my task at hand is to understand the basics - go back and make sure I grasp the basics about disease, and how miasms relate to one's health or ill-health. So, this is where I am at the moment.

Thank you, Johno for sending me the herscu-take on miasms. It is very similar to something sent to me by someone else a couple of years ago. Interesting, but some of it was possibly speculative in that, it seems conclusions are drawn as to WHY people (be they afflicted with one, two or all three miasms) do some of the things they do. Instead of just stating what they do (what symptoms come up) all sorts of reasons as to why they do this or that is talked on and on about. How can one say that someone behaves this way means is the result of x-urge, is my question. We don't know really --- we can just observe what people do, right. But it was a great read so thank you for sending it to me.

Maybe it is accurate; I don't know yet, but that is the sort of thing I'm searching for in CD and any old material I can get my hands on. Then I'll look to the more contemporary homeopaths once I feel fairly well grounded. So it is something I'm sure I will learn while reflecting at some point.

Thank you for answering my questions, Chrisg. I don't know about you, but I learn in phases and steps and some of this is beyond my understanding as yet, since I'm really only now beginning to study miasms in depth.
(Anna and Divina's discussion is very interesting but I am not 'there' enough, yet, to really participate in their discussion...but please carry on girls )
I look forward to being able to actually participate in frutiful discussions (rather than just ask questions) --- my thoughts of the subject, in the (hopefully) near future, once I feel confident I have a wider understanding.

Regarding Belgian Chocci, Divina, you made my day, baby! It was shocking news to hear that Herscu's chocci was contaminated too ! To think of life without chocolat, baby, it's a downer. So, I've decided, I'm not listening to anymore rubbish about chocolate. Maybe someone is having a laugh and just trying to torture the chocolat loverrrsss, purrrrrrrrr. I'm just going to LIVE baby - and that entails chocci at regular intervals (Belgian of course). AuStIn

[ 12. October 2002, 21:16: Message edited by: Austin Powers ]

Austin,

I know no one wants to beleive that logically symptoms lead to other symptoms but it is true.
In fact these are the symptoms that you select in reportorizing and give the most consideration to.

Just like the cycle of Merc. that I posted. You can logiclaly see how one symptomn would casue another physiclaly, mentally or emotionally.

People have to undertand that Herscu has developed cycles of 100's of remedies and all grand characteristice (grouped symptoms) are logiclaly connected and he has proven them out in over 15 years since first realizing disease has a beggining and an ending. (there is nothing speculative about what he has proven out in 1000's of cases over those 15 years) He simply understands homeopathy at a higher level through a method he has proven over and over that everyone can learn and benefit from.

It is just like finding someone oversensitive, do they cry or not cry, get angry or not get angry, if they cry does it amel..what becomes predictable is that if a person does somehting and uses a lot of energy or it is an issue that is debilitating to the patient, it is related to other symptoms and those are the symptoms that matter most as they are responses to stress as explained in his modle of diseae. It is the repsonse and the over sstrian of the vital force that needs restored and those symptoms are connected.

Just like the inflammation of Merc viv. leads to swelling and closing off and their must be a reaction and sure enough they have very violent discharges.

regards

John O

Johno, the logical reasoning goes back to inductive and deductive reasoning, to a point. It doesn't matter really why people do things or have this or that symptom. They just do. From my understanding, it is our job to obeserve what we 'see' and take it into consideration. Not interpret or speculate why someone does this or that. It's not that simple, I know, but I think that is essentially what this boils down too. And, why there was ongoing debate as to the relevancy of certain methods.

Austin P.

You stated:
It doesn't matter really why people do things or have this or that symptom. They just do. From my understanding, it is our job to obeserve what we 'see' and take it into consideration. Not interpret or speculate why someone does this or that.

First, I beleive it is our job to interpret exactly what they do but not to speculate anything. What people do is critical to understand why they are sick. It is their response to stress, the excessive energy they use
that causes symptoms to develop. It is those symptoms that we must prescribe upon and we must do so by finding the totality ofthe disease. Meaning, which symptoms or grand charcteristics/ segments of a pattern/cycle of disease is the patient presenting.

Hersc's whole method is based on what symptoms cause a person to do as they lead to a new set of symptoms that form the next segment of the cycle. Some are physical things they due like in Rhus-t they do something to injure themselves over and over.

Just like to easily distinguish Nat-m from Ignatia, you find that the patient who works hard to make things better that are causing the grief (Industrious)needs Ignatia and the one who introverts and avoids all the reasons they are in a state of giref needs Nat-m.

This alone makes it simple to distinguish these 2 remedies as both have many of the same rubrics.
Also Nat-m shows more symptoms centered around fluids and sweling as part of introverted behavior as if holding onto things and Ignatia is more centerd around the nervous system.

Everything i am saying is true for all remedies. What the person does to deal with the stress is critical to understand and if you read enough cycles of remedies you would see how symtpms are logically coinnected. You certainly do not speculate in arriving at the symptoms, but with his method it allows you to focus on which sympotms matter the most and with his case taking method of asking key questions to find out the patients resposne to various sets of symptoms you are lead ot the next set of symptoms that must be addressed and this continues until you find a beggining and an end to the cycle/pattern of disease as well as the segments that keep the person in this state known as the opposite of the cheif complaint and the nightmare of the CC. If you do not find all of these in a case, you will not easily be able to distinguish which remdy the patient truly needs as you will not be covering the totality of the disease.

Again the most important aspect of all of this is, it is consistent in application and results.

I feel people who do not take at least his 2 year course are missing out on what will prove to be the best method of case taking and analysis. Hopefully in the near future, I am going to be working on getting feedback from many of his students on how much their success rate has gone up in applying his method and will publish this and more information on his method sometime in 2003.

again, I beleive if homeoapths read his firt 13 Herscu letters, they will understand the importance of his method and will want to take at least the 2 year course.

Later..

JO

How much do these 13 letters cost?

Where is amherst in relation to boston?

Am i missing something if I'm wondering how you would treat a person who can't talk?

The letters cost $19 each and 1 per month.

Amherst is just north of Springfield.

You treat a person who cna not talk by using observation skills and tlaking to people they live with, etc.

I have treated Downs kid and some very depressed people who in affect could not or would not talk much and it is more difficult but if you know what you are looking for relative to the CC you can find a cycle and prescribe with confidence.

JO