Snoopy,
:razz: :razz:
Cos I said it all anyway!
Not taking away the merit from a very good NAt Sulph prescription though!
doctorleela

__________________
http://www.homeopathy2health.com

Snoopy,

That was a general statement regarding a few cases that none of the people in this discussion area have been involved in, but from what I consider to be off the chart things certain people appear to be doing in cetain parts of the world....I do not wish to offend anyone but when someone stated all they need is the main and most peculiar symptom to prescribe on chroniclaly that is what I was refering to and again it was in 2 other small cases that you were not part of the discussion.

Also I noted that during chronic treatment you do not always want to give an acute remedy and and I explained why and when above.

I also made it clear I have often given remedies
during chronic treatment for acutes but I am selective.

No demerits please!

John O.

Hans,

I agree with everything you are saying 100%. However there are many cases that after taking them it is clear that more than one remedy will likely be needed. In some cases this does not prove out but in the most severe type cases to reach total health, you can not do it with one remedy.

Example: 3 year old kid molested by father. Take case and many symptoms clearly point to stramonium. However the most debilitating issue for the patient is prior to seeing his father (until he was protected by supervised visitations)is that he would vomit after sudden fear would set in on his way to see his father.
Aconite 200c resolved this issue but wihtin 10 days the violent behavior at school and with family memebers and many other Stram.symptoms became stronger and it was given to complete the case. I have found in over 50% of chronic illnesses if you take the whole case you can predict with reasonable certainty of a small group of future remedies the patient will need. Just like in severe acutes for flu we often see Bapt or Gels as a follow up to aconoite or bell. In taking the whole case this often becomes very predictable at least with Herscu's method. Last winter during the flu season over 70% needed 2 remedies and the other 30% only needed one. So yes you must wait to see how the vital force responds as it is different for everyone but it can often be predictable in a general way.

The idea that a patient truly only needs one remedy that will cure everything is not a relaity. It depends on how deep of a state they are in and how complex their case is and how they respond to the first remedy given. I also treated a womed on anti-depresents and she needed
Anacardium but was also a nymphomaniac and then needed Plat. and she also was very vulnerable and insecure and over sensitive and needed Puls. In this case the first 2 remedies were predictable almost form day one and based on the persons childhood that lead them to a Plat. state Puls was a consideration form early on as a future potential remedy. Now in some cases like this I have seen Anacardium remove all symptoms in 1 case but in the other 7 anacardium cases, since it is a severe state type remedy compared to others, follow up remedies were required.

Just like my Bufo case that will need Tub. It is going well as the kid is clearly communicating more and is moving toward tub and whether you like it or beleive it, this was reasonably predictable.

Again, it is not always predictable but often when you take a whole case you can determine what they need now and within reason can predict what they will likely need ot finish the case.

I know you don't like the cycles and segements method of grand characteristics vs. keynotes, but it simply works and there will be much mroe informaiton published on this in thenear future.

I think if you were to read herscu's proving of the remedy alcohol you would see why most of the top homeoapths in the world and people like Julian winston are giving it great reviews.

Again, I fully agree you must prescribe on the most intense, peculiar, rare,etc symptoms first but only to the extent that they fit in the totality of the disease. Again the example most younger homeopaths face is if there are 70 symptoms and 5-6 remedies with 3-4 keynotes each which do you give? This si also when smaller remedies are missed. You give the remedy that matches the pattern/cycle of the patientthat logicaly has a beginning and an end.

One thing is for certian at this point of our discussion, that is We are never going to agree on this for now so lets see what develops over time.

respectfully,

John O.

I liked your cure of the autism case because Herscu is finding out as I did with a case that a high % of so called autism pateints got into that state form a major fright and sometimes often before they were born. I had a kid before he was born, in a bad car accident at 9 months just before delivery and he was born scared and later diagnosed borderline autism. It is good to see another case that I am guesing started in a similar way.

Dear John,

Please don't say we'll never agree! I would hate to think nobody wants to learn anything. I am dying to understand this method as it has a certain ring of truth to it. Most of us ARE going around in circles!
People complain, "I can't break out of this vicious cycle...I do the same thing in every relationship...etc." You could almost say disease is a circle the patient lacks the freedom to break out of; something makes him repeat the same mistakes over and over, despite knowing better.

It seems logical to ask, as a first question, "What does this complaint make you do?" Then you get the modalities for "better for this, or better for that". It makes sense that at some point he's going to display the exact opposite behavior that he's known for, because of polarities, because disease is an over-reaction or an under-reaction, it's the center--or being centered--that the patient can't manage. So, the timid patient is presumed to have angry outbursts; so instead of asking, "Do you ever get angry?" you'd ask, "When do you get angry?" and this gives you the half-way mark of the cycle; then you'd ask, "What does the anger make you do?" Presumably, this would lead to the distressing segment (the "worse for" modalities) that lead back to the chief complaint--the top. My problem is that all I've ever been able to gather from a case, even using this method, is the "better for" and "worse for" and the polarity, and even though it looks good on paper, what I often get is: What does the headache make you do? Lie down in a dark room. Then what do you do then? Nothing I just lie there. End of story! Then you wind up relying on your old case-taking methods: What are the modalities? What was the etiology? What's the sensation? Are there any concomitants? What's your mental/emotional state? How is your thirst? and so on.
Before you know it, you've totally abandoned Herscu's cycles and segments in favor of the standard method of taking an acute case.

So, I would encourage you to stick around and offer any assistance you can as cases come up on the BB and tell us more about your own cases, etc. and maybe we'll all learn a little something as a result. For instance, maybe you could help us understand this very important point: a case has dozens of symptoms; how do you choose what's worthy of repertorization? Do you pick only those symptoms that repeat on more than one level?

Snoopy

John,
Where did Hans say that most cases would be cured with only one remedy? I'm confused by your opening statement. Did I miss something?

Hans,
I would like to ask a question about the miasms. I will start a new thread. If you have some time would you have a look? Austin

Dear John
As you present it, it seems that Paul Herscu takes the complete disease-history and places his first prescription on symptoms of earlier diseases. I took this from:
>>I also treated a womed on anti-depresents and she needed
Anacardium but was also a nymphomaniac and then needed Plat. and she also was very vulnerable and insecure and over sensitive and needed Puls. In this case the first 2 remedies were predictable almost form day one and based on the persons childhood that lead them to a Plat. state Puls was a consideration form early on as a future potential remedy.<<

so- the first prescription is NOT on the present symptoms, but on an ASSUMPTION, that there is a previous incident creating and keeping up the momentary diseases-picture, and that this ,,state’’ is present even though there are no symptoms relating to it presently ailing which are seen or experienced.

Following Paul’s idea expressed by John over various posts, one could argue, that everyone needs Aconite and Arnica in every case as first remedies, because we all came through this traumatic frightening experience called birth into this world and got bruised, and from then on were prone to disease of various kinds. So--the underlying state of today’s suffering, expressed in disease, is this birth-trauma and nothing else. Unless this is removed, it is impossible to cure what is the result of it. So everyone who prescribes on the symptom-picture presented today is merely suppressing, as the deeper state remains uncured. This deeper state cannot be seen. It can only be reasoned by looking at the live-history of the patient.
And of course—I can present thousands of cases supporting my assumptions. Who would want to argue, that the reason for all our suffering is, that we were born!

Sounds convincing?
But following conclusions, which are based on assumptions leads inevitably away from reality into the kingdom of shadows. Adopting set procedures based on assumptions leads to remedy-selections, which can easily mess up cases by giving remedies, which have nothing to do with the symptom-picture now present.
Coming back to the example:
You gave:

>>Aconite 200c resolved this issue but wihtin 10 days the violent behavior at school and with family memebers and many other Stram.symptoms became stronger and it was given to complete the case.<<

If this former state which does not show itself by the present symptoms is treated with Acon, how do you know, that Acon has removed it?

How can Acon remove something which is not there?

For a moment I want to follow your assumption, that this deeper state is the cause of today’s suffering and ask the following questions:

If this deeper state is the cause of the present suffering, how comes, that despite ‘’removal’’ of it by aconite, the present state persists?

How comes that after removing the cause of the present suffering by a remedy, the present sufferings increase?

Isn’t it that way, that, when the cause of the existence is removed, the NOW existing thing disappears?

Example: If I plug out the telly, the picture on the screen disappears.

How comes, that the practitioner reporting to have done this and seen the results, sees the application of Acon and the resulting worsening as a success?

Résumé:
Paul’s method differs from Hahnemann’s in the following way:
Paul gives the first remedy on the earlier indications derived from the history and then medicates along the history of disease arriving with the last remedy at the present disease.
Hahnemann starts always with what is present now, gives the remedy for the current disease-picture and follows the case up, by prescribing anew on the then present disease-picture. Boenninghausen followed the exact same method.

As john seems to be impressed by statistics --here they are for him:
The 129 Journals of Boenninghausen, which survived from an overall of 214,--some journals containing more then 500 patient histories each--, bear witness to the method pursued by Hahnemann and Boenninghausen. You can add the lot of Hahnemann’s later cases to it, even though they make only a small percentage of the cured cases by Boenninghausen. You can convince yourself if you want. Boenninghausen’s journals are accessible to the public. In that light—what are the 1000 cases you claim Paul has cured?

__________________
Hans Weitbrecht
Consultant Homeopath

Snoopy,

I would like to send you several cycles of remedies and a few more details so you can see the logic to this as what you are saying is very true about patietns being stuck in a pattern/cycle. That is were the opposite of the cheif complaint and the nightmare segement I talked about come into play as they bring you back to the segment of what brings on or agg the cheif complaint to keep it going. Send me your personal e-mail address. I have cycles for over 75 remedies and will get more soon as I continue on the 2 yr class. I will send you some to review. What I like the most is you really fel you understand the remedy by knowing the grand characteristics.

In questioning you alwasy ask: first what is the worse thing about this for you? Then sometimes why is that so bad? (if need to make sure found deeper issue or not understand what they mean)Then what does it feel like - quality of it and/or how does it make you feel? Then, what do you do to deal with this?,will lead to the next segment of amel. All these quesitons make them go deeper into the quality and feeling and are responses to stress and these questions always lead to the next set of grand characteristics. Then you get to the opposite and the nightmare segments that leads to what brings it on or aggravates the CC segment. There are also 1-4 other segments possible that are more common in larger remedies. But in application, usually if get 4-5 main ones you have the whole case, but often you will find another main idea of symptoms of the patient that will fit in to the cycle and will further distinguish remedies. In the end, you have to use the symptoms the patient is expressing and not try and creat a cycle by making assumptions.
Do not presume a timid patient has angry outbursts, let the line of questioning lead to it. Maybe outbursts are they become loqautious and say soemthing embarassing or from being timid they hold feelings in and have physical pressures build up as well or constrictions that comes out in vomiting or diarrea or violent sneezing as they try ot hold it in as sneezing embarasses them. Point is keep asking what is worse thing and then how does it make them feel and whats on mind and what do next and it will flow together but not simple to explain all here.

In your example when they are lieing there ask, How do you feel liyng there? I don't know? whats on your mind? Just things that bother me? Like what? Just worries about many things? That may be all you get but often something will come out...Like what..death, kids, others, trifles..something will come up and how does it make you feel to worry about these things ? It makes me feel worthless or they may cry at this point or they may get irritable or defensive,etc. -also if they don't respond it means either it may not be important so ask how often do you do this and if find out they only go off alone to rest 1 per week it may not be part of the case as many people do this but doing it often would be a concern)What do you do to deal with that feeling? It makes me get up and start working again. How do you feel working then? I feel good doing somthing about worries. Point is you have to find out the worse thing or the best thing about each symptom and how they feel about each and what it leads them to do. You often must find multiple examples or something intense or frequent. Also the sympotms that the person uses the most energy for and the ones that are most debilitating for the patient must alwasy be considered and questioned. Follow the energy!

Also unitl you see and understand many grand characteristics of remedies it is hard to apply the method. When I took a case over the phone and found my first cycle for Merc. I was hooked and went back and studied the first 13 herscu letters and made a form for case taking that is real helpful but does not have alot of questions but just the main segments and what you are looking for in each in very general terms.

It keeps me focused on case taking so I don't get lost in the 100 symptom scenario.

I also ask all the other standard questions on stool, thirst, etc as they usually fit in to the cycle or I may find I missed something or misunderstood something, but usually it is pretty clear what needs fixed - which symptoms matter.

regarding which symptoms matter - those that are peculiar, intense, frequent - use alot of the persons energy and are debilitating for the patient - ie discharges leading to weakness,and those that have multiple examples. better after crying, after urination, stool, yelling - Gen. discharges amel and combine with specific rubrics noted to form grand characteristic. Then the segment of symptoms that logically leads to the next segment, so similar symptoms that form a main idea that lead to another symptom in a logical manner are the one consdiered to be most important. Your ? of sympotms that repeat on more than one level I am guessing you mean combining similar ideas regardless if mental, emotional, physical? If so, yes. Any symptom that is clearly similar to other symptoms and there are numerous examples, must be part of the case.

If a person reads the first 13 Herscu letters several times, and then continues the Herscu letter you can learn to use it but it took me 6 months of applying it to get confident with it and then until I could read more cycles and Pauls modern day explanation of the remedy, which I will send you some it was still difficult for cases when different remedies I did not have cycles for or a clear understanding of the remedy showed up for consideration.

I think you will like what I send you but it is not for distribution, but only since you have studied it, I am willing to send it to you. Let me know if you feel you better understand the remedies once you have read it. I really like Pauls down to earth explanation of the picture of remedies expressing the totality of the disease. The other thing I do is if take case with cycles and find 3 segments that say 4 remedies have in them and then they have differnt segements you can ask general questions to find out whats next if by chance you get lost in taking the case.

Send me your e-mail

Hope this was helpful.

John O.

Dear Hans,

Paul does not select the first remedy for a case unless it covers the totality of the present state of the patient. However, most people will develop a pattern/cycle of how they deal with stress and will use it over and over. If treated soon enough after the CC started or if the person is using the same responses to similar stresses that causeed or contributed to the CC in the first place, the remedy they needed 20 years ago may be the same remedy they need today. These are the one remedy miracle cures we wish we had more of. You can often see several cycles of a patient but you must treat the one that with the most intense/frequent, peculiar, rare symptoms that are the most debilitating to the patient. I gave Anac based on the persons confusion leading to dullness and mistakes leading to shame/guilt, leading to a lack of confidence and fear of failure casuing fear before appontments or performanc eof some type being required leading to them being over sensitive to offensives and defensive leading to violence leading back to feeling confused as to who they are and how could they be this way. It was a simple case. At the same time in finding the cycle it was clear she exhibited many qualities of Plat and if this remedy is well understood you can see how if it goes untreated and a major shock or grief happens how this peson could go into an anacardium state especially when anti-depressents are involved.

Again, there are no assumptions made, just a discovery of how a person can go into a deeper more debilitating state if they go untreated and more severe stresses lead to them there. I do not know where you got the idea remedies are selected on assumptions. I never said it anywhere in these notes so i can only conclude it is your misunderstanding or my porr communication skills. in either case no assumptions are made when it comes to what symptoms matter as the vital force clearly exhibits those out of harmony and those that need cured first.

Also I want to state that no patients case is 100% predictable as to what remedy they will need next as the vital force is to unique and only the next set of symptoms that come to the surface as the most intense, strange, peculiar and debilitating to the patient will be prescribed upon. Yet often, you can see the pattern or cycle a person was in that lead to the state they are currently in and often they do return to that state.

However, the longer a person goes untreated the more likely they will go deeper into how they respond to stress. Just like many grief cases that initially clealry would have needed ignatia, that get anti-depresents often end up needing anacardium as they loose focus, become hard hearted - unfeeling/unsympathetic (rubric)(supressed grief), loose confidence, have violent thoughts or tendencie and have alot of confusion and 2 wills. In most these cases if they were given ignatia right away they would have never gone into an anacardium state.

So for the record, remedies are not given on assumptions and Inever stated this but you readit into what I was saying.

Regarding the aconite. we knew the child suddenly became fearful when he relaized each tiem he was going to his dads in the car and each time he vomited and would end up staring at the floor as if in shock as the mother could not get his attention and this happened every weekend for 6 weeks in a row. After the remedy that next weekend he did much better and no episode at all. That is how we know aconite removed it.

Then his mother called and sure enough, the violent side of Stram came out at school and screaming at night and being inconsolable all intensified, and 20 other stram symptoms made it a clear case. Both sets of symptoms came out fully in the initial case taking but because Aconite symptoms were more debilitating to the kid compared to the stram symptoms, aconite was given. I have seen Herscu make these decisions many times and I myself have made them often enough to understand which set of symptoms you treat first when it is a difficult decision.

The present sufferings that increased did so because the deeper state those most debilitating to the patient were removed which allowed more energy to be used in expressing what was left to be cured. Paul said in this case often times aconite will resolve the stramonium layer as well as you are removing the fear of being molested and pain which caused the viloent acts towards others and the stram symptoms but in some cases the stram. symptoms will hold and then must be treated but only if in fact they present themselves and usually only if they intensify would you prescribe to be sure the first remedy is still not working. Again the vital force is so unique this varies greatly but again it can be predictable at times. Have you not seen many flu cases that needed 2 remedies and at times was it not predictable Bapt or Kali-bi may be needed as a follow up once the most severe issue -the high fever was reduced? I surely saw this last year in the U.S. as previously noted.

Regarding your last 3-4 statements I think you really misunderstood what I was trying to communicate so I have no further comment then what is noted above.

Regarding Pauls cases, I have read over 200 of them and I am only half way through his 2 year course. Also there are about 55 summary cases at my website homeoapthycuredcases.com for docs and cases can be read at medicalhealthcures.com He has 2 interesting autism cases and several good fear ones (including my daughters case he cured with Manc) and 10 allergy cures and hepatitis and ...etc etc but you have to look through to find them. More importantly I know many people he has cured. Also he has many cured cases in his journal the new england journal of homeoapthy.

I am guessing he has cured several 1000's of chronic cases.

I often get the feeling from the tone of your letter that you do not trust me. I can not do much about that. I can only say I am not doing this for money and only because I beleive his method to be superior for many reasons.


Regards,

John oljace

Hans,

Also I would like to make it clear I only have one idol and it is not an earthly being!

John Oljace

John, get on the "headache" thread. Maybe we can solve this case together!

Snoopy