if a cat age 6 is obese, overeats, does not explore the terrain beyond the garden and *bites out the fur from his tail*, is it safe to say he is depressed? even if he will respond nicely to a bit of attention?
he gives the impression that if he were a human he would be vegged out watching sky sport with lager and peanuts all day.

any remedies for animals biting out their own fur for no obvious reason?

[ 25. August 2002, 12:28: Message edited by: jonh ]

Interesting you ask... I had a kitty a few years back who started to siezure (it was a kitten in developement and his brother had the same problem). Belladonna 1M stopped the siezures however something was not right as the kitten literally bit 2mm off the end of his tail in the following weeks. One he had removed the offending part he stopped. Later that same cat was given Arnica as an adult which caused the same behavior, this behavior was stopped by giving Bell. Not sure if my story helps, but there it is. I would probably guess that "anxiety" would be a better description (might also explain why he is unadventurous) rather than depression in most cases, but the rest of his demeanor does not suggest this to be likely. Does he bite out the fur at the base or tip? At the base may indicate that he is itchy. Obese cats can not keep themselves as clean as others (they can't reach!) and many will scoot and be itchy and messy back there. We have had many obese cats, its amazing how active they become once some of the weight is off, what I am inferring is that his apparent "laziness" may be from the weight etc.

Hi Anna,

I've read that food should be offered and what isn't eaten in 20-30 minutes, taken away. Something to do with the mere odor of food causing chemical changes (brain connection) in the saliva, either heightening or lowering (if I had the time I would look it up!) acid levels, thus effecting digestion of the food. This would be applicable to thin or fat kitty. Thin kitty might eat more/better, if knew food not always available. Idea is to have them go at the food like they aren't sure where the next meal is coming from! In natural surroundings, they eat as much of the kill as they want and walk away. They don't stay too close to the "remainder of the day".

__________________
Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Me again...Finally have a minute....when cats smell the food, triggering the digestive processes and their body prepares to eat, the metabolism slows down, so digestion is better. Organs, other than the stomach are then undersupplied with blood, making digestion more efficient. Undersupply of blood to organs other than the stomach can cause cats to age more quickly. Also, having food available all day can cause a cat to be a finicky eater. Slowed metabolism can cause dandruff, obesity and skinniness.

Having food available all the time is also a factor in urinary problems. Every time a cat smells food his urine becomes more alkaline.

The tail chewing could be from toxins from the flea stuff. Body cells called mast cells, located just below the skin, react to blood toxins by secreting histamine, making blood flow more in certain areas causing irritation, scratching, chewing, biting at the area. Greatest number of mast cells are around the eyes and ears, feet and above the tail base, chest and abdomen. Also, they may be using the flea stuff that is spread from the top of the head to the tail, in a line down the spine. Nasty stuff, right on the CNS.

__________________
Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

thanks krista

the big impression i have from this cat is boredom. he comes across very relaxed. he vegges out for a bit, then gets up for a snack [always available] then bites the base of his tail a bit - as if he just wants something to do, coz life is SO dull.
he would be a great character for shirley to 'communicate' with.

you are right about the lack of cleanliness - he is too fat to clean himself properly and has all- over skin flakes. at the same time, i don't think he has fleas because he is injected with 'program' and the owners are scrupulous in the house. also it's the inside of the tail, near the base, but not around the anus - in no particularly dirty spot, that he bites out fur.

qu. what do you do about leaving food out if you have one thin cat with a low appetite and one compulsive snacker? [he was prophetically named after a famous snack brand]

qu. what are the side effects of program on cats?

I've found that a good diet (you will need to experiement a bit to find out what is best for a particular cat) eliminates the fleas. There is also a very fine toothed metal comb that will take out all of the mats and loose undercoat, which should help if the cat is too fat to clean himself. It's also wonderful for all cats. The really good groomers use it and show people use it daily. It completely gets rid of hair balls and any shedding. Also, just a few pounds of weight loss will do wonders for the dandruff.

I wasn't aware of the information on leaving food out. I had one cat who used to panic whenever there wasn't food in her bowl. She didn't eat it, but just checked periodically to make sure it was there. She was a pound save, so I think she may have been starved at some point. It doesn't bother my other kitties who mostly like to eat first thing in the morning and then again in the evening. Even when food is out, they don't seem to go into the kitchen at any other time, unless they are following me and they don't even check out the bowl then.

Can the owner engage him in some play several times a day? He may not do a lot at first because of his weight, but think of it as a beginning exercise program - start slow and gradually work up. Also, can you separate the cats while they eat and give one a more dense diet than the other? Are you sure the cat is geting the right balance of fats in his diet? This also could cause both emotional problems and skin problems.

__________________
Shirley Reischman

Unfortunately, you can't speculate on a cat's depression. You can, however, get sufficient information for prescribing just from your observations.

Here's what you reported about the cat:
It pulls hair out of its tail (trichotillomania)
It is overweight (you should be able to feel--but not necessarily see--a cat's ribcage under its fur)
It is unable to clean himself properly
It has lots of flakes and flakey skin (not necessarily a result of an inability to clean itself)
It is responsive when given attention (now you just need to clarify how it responds--does it love being stroked or petted? Does it like this for quite some time, or does it react from overstimulation--by eventually biting or scratching in response?)

You can ask the cat's human family members to give you more information--does the cat have any fears? Does it have a favourite place or activity? How does it feel about other animals, particular people in the household? Does it crave any particular kinds of foods above all others? Does it like company? Does it prefer to be alone? How does it respond in each respective situation?

There are plenty of things you could do to promote a healthier, raw food/natural food diet for the cat, and perhaps find some ways to educate the human companions about fleas (if there are none around on the property and none in the house, those monthly program shots or treatments are just harming the kitty and making the vet wealthy...) In my experience, animals become susceptible to fleas and other parasites when they undergo some kind of traumatic emotional experience, such as a kind of abandonment which causes them anxiety. Otherwise, they don't fall prey. So, it is very important you look for some kind of etiological evidence--find out when the cat started biting out its fur, when it started to put on weight...

The cat's food intake should be severely restricted until the excess weight is lost, however; and that can be done with natural foods more easily than it can be done with commercial foods (as the ingredients can be controlled more easily). Find out why the cat won't go out of its garden environment (is it frightened of what's out there? If so, that's another symptom to repertorize) and see if you can encourage a bit of exercise with cat toys if that's at all possible (which means the human family members have to put in some time with the kitty--that could be telling in terms of rubrics for you, too).

Richard Pitcairn and his wife have published all kinds of natural food recipes for cats that you may be able to find on-line. You might want to try this site, too: www.blakkatz.com for more information on natural food diets and homeopathy for cats.

Good luck!

[ 24. August 2002, 14:32: Message edited by: ChaChaHeels ]

__________________
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung

dear gpm, shirley and chacha

thanks very much for the info and ideas.
i will pass on the info about restricted feeding times gpm. it's what i thought, but i lacked the science that you kindly provided.

shirley, it makes sense that a good diet will reduce the flea problem.

chacha i am not 100% convinced that there is a case of disease to answer homoeopathically. i couldn't agree more about the need for more exercise, less food and natural food - but i already suggested that the cat is switched to a natural diet but it was not met with enthusiasm by the owners. it's tricky because this is not a great human-cat match, so i don't know how much the humans would do for a cat that they don't really bond with.

this cat loves to be petted in a very normal way - not anxious or aggressive.
...but i do know a cat that will be petted for a minute or so and then suddenly bites. and another that is the same but scratches. is that a symptom? or part of the spectrum of feline interaction with humans, depending on how much the cat was handled as a kitten?

The reaction to petting is very individual. It makes a good rubric. Some cats never tire of it, some just leave when it gets to be too much and some stay and get feisty. We use rubrics re people's reactions to attention and touch, so we should use them for animals, also.

Maybe if the cat and family are not well matched (I can't imagine not being willing to try a new, better diet for a pet), maybe a new home placement would be in the best interests of all.

I'm sure the poor kitty is aware that his humans don't really love him as he would want and deserve. This may be the crux of the problem.

PS - I just told Kitkat about the situation and he says it's better to leave home than stay where you're not loved. Much better than getting fat and pulling your hair out. Of course, he's never had to go a day without a meal, or shelter in bad weather, so it may be easy for him to say this.

[ 24. August 2002, 15:58: Message edited by: sreischman ]

__________________
Shirley Reischman

Hi Anna,

Trichotillomania is a self destructive pathology, one that needs to be treated. The cat's obesity--at 6 years of age!--must be a result of an inability to absorb nutrients, which may have effected kidney function and liver function. There is definitely disease to be treated here!

Homeopathically, you'd be looking for a remedy in the syphilitic miasm group...one that would also feature obesity as a symptom (like phosphorus--especially if this kitty loves to be stroked and petted, and feels apprehensive about going out of its familiar boundaries--or has any of the numerous phosphorus fears).

I think a well chosen homeopathic remedy will make all the difference for this kitty, while a dietary change alone will work to change just one symptom (I personally believe you always have to go deeper than just "weight loss" in treating pathology of any nature). It seems very clear that a dietary change will alter the appearance of the problem, but it won't fix the deeper physiological dysfunctions which always exist underneath; and they never fix the emotional problems associated with the physiological problems at all.

[ 24. August 2002, 22:29: Message edited by: ChaChaHeels ]

__________________
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung