Hi All,

I need everyone's help please.

My daughter rescued a wee kitten tonight from a group of local boys who were throwing stones at her, and her sibling sister. Mother couldn't be found and the kitten's sisters was dead when my daughter found her.

She is malnourished. Bony, yet tummy is big (she looks awful in this respect). She is black. Her fur looks like it is thin (maybe that is normal for this age?). We estimate her to be no more than 4/5 weeks old.

Ben (our dog) was in the car when my husband went to fetch our daughter from riding. So, Jasmine (we've already named her) was in the car with Ben who licked her a few times (phew!).

When I first saw her less than 1/2 an hour ago - she was trembling/shaking (fear? cold?). She was clingy - probably because Ben was trying to sniff and lick her. (He managed a couple of licks - she hissed in fear).

She has dry crusts in her eyes. I also noticed she had a snotty nose (never seen it this bad in a cat/kitten before!) - the mucous was globbed on both nostrils. I cleaned them off gently. She is sneezing a lot!!! And with each sneeze - comes a trail of lovely mucous (we all have it on our feet....yuk). Oddly the mucous which was on her nose was opaque whilst the fresh mucous sneezed out is more clear/greenish hue.

Any ideas of what she might need?

She doesn't seem to be warm/hot to the touch. Also, I'm not sure if her shivering/trembling/shaking is shivering, trembling or shaking - and if it is from fear (Ben and new surroundings) or shock, or all of the above?!

Oh - my husband gave her milk (fresh)....argh, after my telling him she needed fresh cream (which I later realised we are out of!). She went to Ben's bowl and grabbed a hunk of meat (fresh) and sat chomping on it voraciously for about 5 minutes. I'm sure she was just starving/hungry. Hubby then gave her some dog biscuits (GRRRRR) which I obviously think is probably too rich for her since she is so young (?). But he argued that cats (she is feral) are survivors and she can probably handle just about anything - being that the local cats eat whatever they can scrounge.

Obviously, I'd like to give her the best - to optimise her chances of survival. I will not vaccinate, btw...and we plan to keep her.

GPM, after being here for 1/2 an hour - just a few minutes ago - we saw her sidling up to Ben - looking like she was about to root for a nipple. You shoulda seen Ben's face..tongue hanging out - and not knowing quite what to make of her (she is a tiny wee thing). Ben was sitting up, btw --- then she crawled under his front legs (he was up, remember) and Ben lifted his left paw - not knowing WHAT to do ! He gently and awkwardly (bless his heart) extracted himself from atop her - and moved so he wouldn't hurt her. I think they're gonna be great friends..and I'll send you a photo when she is stable and well.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Lisa

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

C'mon guys...please lend some help if you're online now.

Despite looking awful - Jasmin is very active (though poops out rather quickly...normal no? for such a new kitten?). Once she ate and drank (she is drinking a lot of water out of Ben's bowl) she was more playful and all her fear of her new surroundings melted away.

This wee thing is a SNOT MACHINE!!!!!! How can sooooo much snot come out of such a small animal. She can't have as much blood volume as she has sneezed out tonight. No doubt, this is why she is so thirsty.

Okay....she's chewing on everything too. Part of me is saying, NOOOOOO I can't take on a baby now. Nightly feeds - no sleep, etc...but then she comes over to me and GETS ON MY FOOT - to snuggle up and sleep . What the hell can I do with that? She's a charmer guys....please help me to help her.

Hubby doesn't think she will survive the night since she is so young - no mother's milk - and so tiny. (should I measure her to let, perhaps gpm, better determine her age? ours is just a guess)

Oh...we've taken some photos of her - if anyone wants to have a look at her.

Lisa

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

last update before I go to bed...

thirst diminished once she tanked up on food and water - so most likely was due to being without her mother's milk for however long she's been away from her mother.

Green snot still there - still sneezing though less so than before (heat agg? cuz indoor it is MUCH cooler than outside). the temps have soared very high here in the last few days - so that could be why?

Anyhow, going to try Puls unless anyone else has a better suggestion.

Main things are:
Lots of sneezing with copious amounts of greenish/clear mucous. Also mucous seems to be dripping out of her nose (kitchen floor was covered in it at one point...permanent cloth out tonight for that). She's in a wee box in the kitchen, which we've tucked under the tea trolley to hopefully make her feel safe and secure (also Ben can't get into it where it is positioned!). Hoping she'll sleep okay - and of course, I'll be on alert as always with any babies around - be they human or otherwise.

Cried a lot earlier - was clingy to me...then clingy to Ben! (this was hilarious - bittersweet) She was obviously crying for her mother - rooting for Ben's nipples...and him with his ears all forward (floppy they are) but his eyebrows all high with a mixture of compassion, confusion and what's that? Lunch? look on his face all at the same time.

The only thing I can think of this late..is Puls..so will try a dose of 30 and post tomorrow how it goes.

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"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Just now saw your post, sorry not to have seen it earlier. I hope Krista sees it soon, as I think she has more experience than I.

If Jas is able to lap milk on her own, you shouldn't have to endure syringe feedings or middle of the night stuff, other than perhaps this first night! I don't know if you have the infant kitty milk replacements available where you are but that might be a good thing to use, even out of the bowl. Regular milk will probably give her the runs a bit. Has the right ingredients for her age. Sold here under names like KMR, Esbilac and Just Born. Make sure it is the kitten formula. If she is able to munch raw meat, you can cut it up in smaller pieces and maybe, just in the beginning add a little tinned food just for kittens, though that may not be necessary if she is able to eat the raw. You can try some unflavored children's Pedialytes for the electrolytes that may have been lost due to stress. She wouldn't need much and just to supplement since she is drinking water well. She is probably dehydrated and I might put her on Lactated Ringer's sub-Q but it probably isn't necessary.

I think you just have to be mindful to not do what comes naturally and try to fill her up right away. Slow and easy for anything that has been starved. Small amounts more frequently than an adult cat. That grabbing of the meat from the dog is typical starvation behavior. They will over eat if allowed.

Big belly is probably a combination of worms and starvation. She may be gassy, too, until things settle in her tummy. Don't deworm her now. She will balance out on a good diet and then you can see if it's required. (Just my opinions here and hopefully someone will correct if inaccurate.)

As for the discharges, you probably know better than I would what to do. My guess would be a dose of Arn 30 or 200 first. Then see where she is. Could be any number of "diseases". See if the eyes crust over seriously and she has any temp, or if her mouth/lips have a dirty look, if she vomits......all those things. Normals for cats are: temp 100.4 to 102.5 F, pulse 160-240 and resp 20-30 but kittens, particularly in her circumstances, can be a little higher. Temp is the main one to watch. You may want to consider Puls if discharges indicate it.

Try to give her a small, safe spot that is all her own with litter box and water close by.

Just got your email so sending this now.......more later......or tomorrow. I think she will be fine.

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Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Thanks ever so much, gpm...just about to go offline and saw your post.

I'll be able to sleep a bit easier now after reading what the normal temp, resp rate, etc is for cats...much appreciate the info.

She has obviously been starving - so I've taken up Ben's food so she doesn't go for anymore until the morning. (I did put a tiny bowl near her box, though - with a small amount of softened biscuits - in case she is hungry in the night. Also a small water bowl and Ben's is nearby in case hers runs out). Quite right - she is drinking and feeding on her own...so hopefully all will sleep through the night, unless she wakes crying (she cried a lot, earlier) in which case I won't be able to sleep. I'll just go to the couch with her (with a towel thanks..the snot is amazingly copious!)if I have too .

For now, though, she is in her own box - all snuggly. We don't have a litter box - but put some paper in the corner for her. She's in the kitchen and I'm not too worried if she makes a bit of a mess - easily cleaned up in the morning. Tomorrow I'll get a small litter box for her - temporarily until she is well and fit to roam (through our animal door - for free access in and out). Want her to do her business outside in the long run.

I'll send you a pic tomorrow... she's a sweetie. Big brown eyes with black fur. Fur is sparse/thin - and you can see her skin clearly through it - also you can tell she was starving...no fat on her at all...pinch the skin up and it just stays like that . But, since eating and drinking earlier - she seemed much more active and lively..so despite what my husband said initially, I think she'll be just fine with lots of care and love.

A VERY wet, AAAChhhooooooooo, from Jasmine.
Thanks again,
Lisa xo

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

PS not sure if I can get kitty supplemental milk as you suggested above....is it poss to order from overseas?
I'll ring THE (i.e. ONLY) pet shop tomorrow and see if they have anything like this.

Can get (and think I have actually..will go check in a mo) Pedialyte for children...so will put a small amount in her water to help her out with that.

No plans to treat her for worms..will stick with homeopathy - as my son was prone...and since 1 year now - he hasn't had them at all. So, I'm thinking the same will apply to kittens (remove the susceptibility and they won't get them anymore?).

Thanks again for everything...much appreciated and I will sleep much better now (esp since she is lapping on her own).
lisa

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"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Hi Miss Lisa

I'd looove to see pics of your new baby. Here you can buy the kitten milk gpm recommended at any pet store.

I am proud of your daughter and sickened by the little bastards who were trying to hurt little jazzy. Did the other kitty die from their abuse?

I was thinking arn too by the way. Of course Divina once mentioned nat mur for the grief kitties have when taken from mom too early (may not be indicated now). If kitty shows any signs of stress from the abuse acon is indicated.

gpm - do we need to be concerned with fip here - the large belly and mucous? Probably not, I just have been exposed to this a lot lately so have it on my brain.

- BTW, gpm - the bunnies (there are indeed six of them) are doing well, but it is all I can do to not scoop them up and love them to death. They are the cutest things EVER! Mom is coming to the nest - I did your string trick to make sure.

Sorry Lisa - hope you don't mind my little hyjacking.

I can just picture Ben and Jazzy - adorable.

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Man, do not pride yourself on your superiority to animals. For they are without sin and you in your greatness defile the earth by your appearance on it and leave traces of you foulness after you. Dostoyevsky

Hi, Lisa.
In case you can't get the diet that gpm suggested, I think you can give her milk mixed with water. Start with 1/3 milk + 2/3 water. You can pour a bit of this on a slice of bread or toast. Little kittens love to suck that from the bread. may be Yasmine too?
If the cold and diarrhea do not go away, may be you have Echinacea, which you can put 5 drops of in the water.
Good luck!
shoshy.

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SHOSHY

That's good advice about soaking bread, Shoshy. I would be careful of the kitten having too much dog food. For some reason dogs can do OK with cat food but the reverse is different. Anything is better than what she had though, which was nothing.

The products I'm referring to are powdered milk replacers (another name for all kinds of orphaned animals is Multimilk..I use that a lot) for kittens who have lost their mother's or can't nurse for some reason. There is another product on the market, available here in grocery stores, that is a kind of milk for cats that supposedly doesn't badly effect them as milk can sometimes. I've not used it and am not sure just what it is.

A good interim food is whole raw egg beaten with a touch of water or milk.

Barb, this baby could have a number of things but I wouldn't worry too much about FIP until Lisa sees how she does in the next few days. Fat belly on skinny baby....pretty normal (marasmus). And lots of kittens are born with worms, even in the best of families. It's a baby thing and is usually self limiting....they throw them off as they grow older and are nutritionally better off. (I don't get many kittens in so I am really not an authority.) I do know that upper respiratories can carry through generations of poorly maintained cats and think that the most likely in this case. ( I think there is a 10-14 day incubation period for FIP and usually there would be a rather high fever. And I think FIP is a bit more likely with purebreds, exotics, than with strays. Homeless cats are surprisingly healthy, other than this situation of a starving baby.)

GM always recommended Calc Phos for infant animals taken too early from their mothers.

Geez Barb, six baby bunnies! That's a lotta hoppin goin on! Glad to hear all is well with them. It's a really good thing that their Mom came back because as cute as they look, they don't do well raised by humans. But.....if you like bunnies....be willing to bet there are many, many at the local animal shelter (domestic, so different) looking for a lady just like you! Have you ever seen those Lop Ears, or the Angoras? Take your heart away. Friend of mine sits and visits with an Angora bunny on her lap, slowly pulling out the excess hair and spinning it into wool. Both with very contented looks on their faces, I might add!)

Good luck to Jazzy.

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Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Hi Lisa,

Sorry to have been away so long--I just got in and saw your post.

I'd still suggest the Nat Mur--it will address any lingering grief, check the sparseness of the hair (though this could be pretty normal, depending on the kitty's actual age) and seems to fit in well with your description of her as a "snot machine" which sneezes all the time. It will also help to get rid of the worms GPM's described, if they are there. I'd start with a potency like 30c, mixed in with her water. The poor shmoo has been through quite a traumatic couple of days--a stoning, the death of her sibling, and a clear, violent separation from her mom.

But, now you're her mom! Yay!

If she's already started to munch on raw meat, I have high hopes for your new baby. I also agree that dog food simply doesn't supply the right nutrients for kitties--cats are true carnivores and must have all 22 amino acids in their foods, including taurine. This requirement doesn't exist for doggies, who do very well with less meat--so do try to stick to GPM's advice for kitten supplement foods and the fresh, raw meats, if she can handle them. Eggs are great for kitties, too.

She may start to display some "wacky" food desires after the Nat Mur--one classic thing that kitties start to do after they recuperate their appetite and successfully evade starvation is they begin to display signs of "pica"--the desire to eat undigestible things. If you see her licking the mortar joints between bricks or paving stones or concrete, consider a dose of calc carb as a follow-up after the Nat Mur.

Okay, hope that helps...
Divina

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...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine