Hi - I'd like to ask about a person who has had breast cancer - chemo, surgery and radiation is about to follow soon.

The breast cancer was inflammatory (rare!) but caught early. There was a lump in the left breast (which came on quickly - a matter of a week or so - after a fall on the chest while ice skating).

A biopsy was taken intially - and when that was done - the lump started to grow VERY quickly AND it spread to the lymph glands (some of them, anyway) under the armpit (i.e. there was now a lump the size of a small lemon!).

Then a series of chemo was done with Taxiter (sp?) - an experitmental drug in UK (i.e. it is clinical trials at present). This was to shrink the tumour so surgery could take place and to stave off metastis (from my limted understanding of all this).

While on chemo - she ate only fruits, veggies, etc - no dairy, no meat and no alcohol (except at Xmas - a small glass of wine).

Recently had the primary lump removed (from left breast) - and once in - they discovered a new area/lump so they removed that too.

About ten days later - they went back to do reconstructive surgery (after getting labs back). At that time - along with the reconstruction (no nipple now) they removed 26 lymph nodes - of which 19 were malignant (i.e...from my observation it seems the cancer spread from the now-gone site to the next site/lump).

Interestly, before the surgery - the lump in the lymph nodes had gone down to the size of a pea. (with careful observation it was obvious that the lump was being affected by the diet - not necessarily the chemo which was said to last 2 weeks..and her treatments were 4/5 weeks between!). When she ate well - the lump was reducing in the lymph (while it increased back in size in the primary site - the breast).....

Anyhow, my question is this.
Since the primary site has been removed - and now, the secondary as well.....prognosis?
She is under a homeopaths care now - but I'm realllllly trying to understand her chances of survival. She is due for 3 more rounds of chemo and possibly one round of radiation. Then she said after that - she is not going back for any more surgery...only going to tackle it through diet and homeopathy. Is it possible to survive this??

Hans, I would be most grateful if you could comment. I have been reading the Organon - and I can't recall the § just at the moment (I'll post later) but it was to do with removing the local expression and the warning of doing so.... Just would like your thoughts if you have a moment. Anyone else is also welcome to comment - but please no superfluous input.

Sincerely,
Lisa

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"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

I love you too. You might want to check out Lorraine Day on googlesearch. She was the surgeon who had breast cancer and refused chemo..and went on carrot juice and other juices diet. Her tumor was on the outside of the breast and was gone completely in nine months if I remember right.

Hi Lisa,

I am just going to give an input in very few words because i know you and people who understand the philosophy will agree with it.

" If you deal with secondries that is not the answer"

Primary has to be dealt with. That is the more important, as you all know.

Regards to all who follow the right approach.

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Dr. Shashi Roy
"Sarve Santoo NirAamyah"<br />"Sarve Bhavantoo Sukhinaam"<br /><br />Best Regards<br /><br />Shashi Roy

The more I hear the more I wonder if it is the surgery that spreads the cancer. When cancer starts shinking it will get a layer round it , I understand, from which cancer cells will not leak through. I know so many people who have had a small cancer which was causing no apparent bad symptoms who have had the cancer "removed" told there was no sign that it had spread and then a few months later are told it has gone to somewhere else. I wonder if people would live longer if they just had the chemo /rad with the homeopathy and diet treatment without resorting to surgery. IMHO with cancer the main thing is to treat the causation with a constitutional treatment.

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RSHom - Registered Homeopath

hello lisa,

as i understand it, chemotherapy and homoeopathy are not compatible because they are acting against one another. only once the allopathic treatment is stopped does homoeopathy have a decent chance of real cure [rather than suppressing for a while, which can happen when using all the therapies together.]

my understanding [simplistically] is that chemotherapy attacks the tumours at the same time inevitably destroying the immune system. all the time the immune system is being destroyed, homoeopathy is blocked from curative action, because homoeopathy works in such a case by building up the immune system so that the cancer cells can be eradicated naturally.

cancer is a psoric disease according to hahnemann and psora has been observed to be advanced by anaesthesia.

ref. mestastasis, as far as i am aware this is not more than a theory - there is no mechanism of transmission of cancer via the bloodstream that has been identified.
as homoeopaths, aware that cancer is a disease of the vital force, there is no need to speculate about cancer travelling around the body by physical means.

anna

[ 27 March 2002, 00:38: Message edited by: Anna Bryant ]

This may be of some interest......
http://www.whatareweswallowing.frees...eathbydoc4.htm

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Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Rx.: Hallo Lisa
I have to post this in lots, as the BB server does not accept long posts
The title or the tread should be:
,,HOMEOPATHIC TREATMENT BEFORE RADIATION/ CHEMO/ SURGERY.''

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Hans Weitbrecht
Consultant Homeopath

Hi Lisa,

I have to agree with Ricky's belief here--precisely because it seems clear to me that whenever very important tissue such as lymph nodes are removed in this process, the body loses a HUGE vehicle for healing itself. This kind of compromise in the whole body's function forces an increasingly weakened system to deal with the cancer threat.

I've also seen Chemotherapy thoroughly destroy healthy tissue and really put the body in danger quickly. Its not unusual in both cases for cancer to metastatize--with a weakened inability to defend itself, the body's organs also falter in their function. It is truly not out of the ordinary for chemo to enhance the growth of cancer in organs such as the liver, which is left to contend with the huge toxic load forced on the body. When surgery also disables the lymphatic system in any way, the body's ability to protect itself with that complex and very effective system is compromised; with lymph nodes removed-- the sites in the body where its natural defenses against cancer would be concentrated--the body is left far more vulnerable to metastasis. Specifically to other areas in the body where other lymph nodes would have to compensate for the ones no longer capable. In general, these kinds of suppressive treatments are not curative and actually encourage the spread of the cancer simply because they remove the secondary evidence of the disease and end up forcing the disease to find a deeper, more threatening expression--usually in the next weakest part of the body. If you cut it out of the breast, it will likely next be found in the uterus; if it is cut out of the lung, it next is found in the liver...these are scenarios which are typical in allopathic treatment.

I truly don't want to be misunderstood here, and give the impression that I'm saying "Oh oh, I think your friend made a mistake with that surgery!" because as practitioners we have to realize that in some cases surgery may "get the patient out of danger" until a more curative means of treatment can be employed. But the whole theoretical notion behind what gets cut out of the body is flawed, and contrary to what Hahnemann discovered and knew.

That being said, I don't think its impossible for your friend to restore her health--but there IS an obstacle to cure that has been created by the surgery. So any treatment which follows now has to compensate for that deficiency...and this is possible with homeopathy and supportive treatments to a certain extent. Treatment at this point has to go beyond "treatment for cancer"..it has to address complications created by the chemo and surgery too.

The prognosis? Well, that's difficult. It all depends on whether or not she has someone to work with who is "on top" of treating with homeopathy while the patient undergoes chemo and radiation. Treatment during this stage usually involves trying very hard to reverse the extremely damaging effects of the chemo--and very close case management in order to address problems as they come up. The goal is to lessen the trauma on the body by the chemo--help the body cope with its devastating effects, which can then give the patient a fighting chance against fighting off the cancer.

The prognosis really does depend on this--if the homeopathy successfully supports the patient through these ravages, there is a very good chance that she will survive the chemo and respond to homeopathy later. Like I said, the chemo and radiation and surgery all provide some firm obstacles to cure--if she can use homeopathy to get over as many as possible, the prognosis will be good.

Far better than it would be with just allopathic treatment, that's for sure.

Also, let me get this straight--after chemo, the lump in the lymph shrank and the lump in the breast tissue grew?

Divina

[ 27 March 2002, 13:23: Message edited by: Divina ]

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Thanks everyone for your replies.

Hans, my friend has already had surgery - hence why I titled the thread Homeopathic treatment after surgery.

I want to know what her chances are. Okay, I know no one can say for sure...but is it possible that she can survive - having not only taken out the primary site (breast lump) but also having had the secondary site (lymph nodes - 26 of which only 19 were malignant) removed as well!!

I understand the progression - i.e. that if the primary is removed, then the ailment will find another outlet (i.e. it ain't cured!).

I just wonder how realistic it is that someone can have a lump removed from the primary site - and only a couple of weeks later have the secondary expression removed as well, has any chance of survival. (I hope so!!!!!!!)

Divina - thanks for your thoughts...it is much along the lines of what I thought. But, I hafta be honest - dunno if I would tamper (if it were me - since I've been reading up on this for a coupla months now) with the primary site through chemo, radiation or surgery.

Hans, please do post in lots whenever you are able too...I would be most grateful to hear more of your thoughts on it.

GPM thanks for the link...much appreciated.

Anna - thanks for the input and that is something to think about. Hm...got me thinking but I hafta set that aside for a mo - til later.

Oh - Divina - yes, after several rounds of chemo the lump shrank in the lymph whilst seemingly returning to the breast -- primary site. She would get a dose of chemo...be absolutely slammed into bed for 2 weeks....then it would 'wear' off. Her energy would return back to almost normal, etc. Then she would settle into the gerson-type diet and her normal schedule in life. It was when she was eating healthily - and after chemo's more obvious effects had worn off that one noticed the shrinkage in her lymph-lump. I palpated it daily for about a week - whilst she was on the diet. It went from a plum size - down to walnut size in a coupla days. A coupla days after that - it was down to almond size...then 1 day later it was down to a pea. Then she went and had the surgery to remove only the primary site. But after labs came back (I didn't hear specifics - just that the primary site had another 'worrisome area' that was also removed but found to be benign!!!). Then 10 days later - she was scheduled only for reconstruction..but for some reason - they decided to take the lymph nodes as well - during reconstruction. Interesting that she had so many lymph nodes that were malignant only 10 days after removing the primary site...just confirms what I read in the Org.

Still......just want to get a clearer picture of what to expect now that she has had primary and secondary sites removed. She says she will NOT go for any further surgery...has to be tackled from now on with diet and homeopathy.

I'm praying. (btw, she is under my homeopaths care as well..but up until the surgery wasn't checking in regularly....the allopaths along with her own background in medicine (she was a radiologist in years past) scared her out of her initial decision to leave her lymph nodes alone!

Lisa

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

dear lisa, here is a post hans had technical trouble posting. hans, sorry i had to alter the punctuation to get it on.

Hallo Lisa
The title of the thread should be-
Homeopathic treatment before radiation/chemo/surgery.

A case might illustrate this.
Mrs. D.C 33 years of age presents with the following.

First consultation 20.03.1999
Main symptom:
Hard lump, inflamed in left breast. It cannot be moved physically - ingrowing?. the size of a pea. Some redness and heat externally. The glands underarm left were swollen, hard, and unmovable as well.
The patient previously went to the medical doctor, who prescribed several courses of antibiotics with no effect and now took a tissue-sample for further investigation.
the patient was under great distress, fearing cancer, also because her mother died of breast cancer early.
Haemorrhoids bleeding -continuing problem , more prominent now
the following symptoms were found:
She was generally &lt; after intercourse, &lt; wet cold air, &lt; cold becoming.
Despite the doom and gloom she was unusually vivid, so this formed part of the disease picture.
Disease-history:
Breast tenderness: period before&lt; for a long-time
Asthma: up till 2 years ago, treated with steroids
Mouth gums receding/ bleeding, ongoing for a long time
Sinuses: chronic recurring infections, &lt; damp weather, treated with ATB’s
Depression during puberty. treated with Valium
Rx: Phos Q 2/ every second day 3 teaspoons of the second glass.

29.03.1999: Phonecall:
premenstrual gone/ haemorrhoids more prominent/ lump in breast bigger but painless.
Rx: continue

Second consultation: 22.04.1999
Breast: slight tenderness, no redness, inflammation went.
Size of lump smaller and movable. Glands swollen soft under arms.
Tissue-sample came back positive in meantime.
Sinusses Ok.
No signs of Asthma.
Haemorrhoids come and go.
Sleep/ Appetite good. Felt more energetic when taking the remedy.
Rx: Phos Q 3/ every second day 3 teaspoons of the second glass.

Third consultation: 29.05.1999
Pain in right shoulder continuous over the last few days without cause of a tingling nature, extending down the arm into fingertips.
Breast: No pain, Lump hardly be felt, swelling glands underarms gone.
Asthma: return of tightness in chest nighttimes. not bad
Period pains: cramps in abdomen, tender breasts &lt; 2 days before poeriod.
Gums OK. No sinus trouble,
Haemorrhoids not back.
Sleep/ appetite grand. In good spirits.
Rx: Calc-c Q2/ every second day 3 teaspoons of the second glass.

Report back:12.07.1999
The wheeze went and the lump in the breast disappeared subsequently.
All through the summer in good health.
Rx: wait and see

Fourth follow-up: 10.12.1999
Over the last week:
Return of a slight wheeziness, and she found herself clenching the teeth, which she used to do as a child.
Periods now clotted and heavy with headaches and tenderness of breasts.
No lumps in breasts, glands free.
No haemorrhoids,
Rx: Calc-c Q3/ every second day, 3 teaspoons of the second glass.

I met the patient end of 2001 and after the last dose everything disappeared and there had been no more health-problems since.

[ 27 March 2002, 23:17: Message edited by: Anna Bryant ]