Hahnemann did use crude substances for provings, esp in the early days, before he developed potenetisation - remedies like China and Bell were done this way. Also remember that many symptoms are clinical, taken from poisonings.

Remedies made from foods are often proven by ingesting huge amts of it - ie the proving of banana, mango and tomato were all done by people eating lots of the raw food.

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David Kempson.<br />Dip.Homoeopathic Medicine.<br />Lecturer Australian College of Natural Therapies (Brisbane Campus)<br />Member AHA, AROH, HMA<br />Member Australian Homoeopathic Association. Member#0442.

I have come across people proving coffee, not knowingly observed proving of AcPhos, but it must happen. It will depend on quantity consumed and individual susceptibility as always.

One person who was addicted to coffee had a nasty reaction on drinking a cup of chamomile tea - the sudden crude antidoting produced huge nausea and headache.

link this page with... same question

http://www.homeopathyhome.com/cgi-bi...=006675#000002

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<b>Love rules without rules.<br />Love rules his kingdom without a sword.<br />Love is like scarlet fever -- one has to go through it and get it over. <br />Where there is love, there is peace. <br />Love is not obedience </b>

I beleive Hahnemann also took lachesis and Ars. in crude forms.

Herscu just published a book on provings, along with the proving of alcoholus and gives many reasons why provings should only use homeopathicaly prepared substances. One point he made was you only get the strongest symptoms of the remedy that you would want to find in order to prescribe it. Also you can control the patients sensitivity to the remedy by using different potencies.

It is an excellent book and he also explains why other provongs doen in recent years are cluttering the reps with way to many rubrics.

It has a wealth of other information and he explains how understanding provings will help you in clinical practice.

It is a great learning tool and gives extensive guidlelines for doing provings.

JO

I beleive Hahnemann also took lachesis ........

Hahnemann proved it???????????

It was Hering who proved Lacheses.

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Shirley Reischman

I don't know the name of the French scientist who wrote this, around a century ago...but I feel certain he/she was a homeopath. The quote:

The difference between food and poison is quantity.

I'd go on to say that the difference between medicine and poison is quantity...and the same difference exists between food and medicine.

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Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung

I understand that when a substance in its crude form causes a disease, the same substance can also cure the disease.

If provings are done with potentised substances, not with crude substances, what happens to the principle "That which causes also cures"?

jumma

It still applies. Its pretty obvious that the substance in whatever form can cause a variety of effects to take place in the body. That is why provings are done with potentized and crude forms of the substance when possible. (Or, in the case of substances like coffee, for example, we all know what the symptoms of a crude dose would be. So that becomes part of the proving information gathered on the FULL effects of that substance on the human body.)

This is all really clearly spelled out in proving protocols and in the Organon.

[ 10. December 2002, 14:35: Message edited by: ChaChaHeels ]

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Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung

Actually, Homeoman, you're wrong. Much of the information we have on poisonous substances comes from recorded cases of accidental poisonings collected by hospitals. Further provings using potentized versions of the same substances were conducted because Hahnemann realized that diluting and succussing a substance made the substance capable of expanding its effects on the human body; therefore provings took place with various potencies and dilutions in order to collect information on the RANGE of effects, as well as the number of effects caused by a substance.

That way we would have a clear understanding, scientifically repeatable and reproduceable as all scientifically verifiable experiments must be, of the full effects of a substance on the body. If we know what it can cause then we know what it can cure.

Again, this is all very clearly spelled out in various proving protocols and in the Organon.

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Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung