I wonder if anyone can help me. I am having a argument with my husband over homeopathy. He has come up with the following evidence which basically says that homeopathy doesn't work. I'm not sure how to respond. Is he right? What I find most difficult is that he finds scientific evidence where as any info I have as from some unknown source (or unscientific)Does anyone have some scientific evidence that homeopathy is genuine?
Lisa
The following is what he emailed to me from work (we don't discuss it verbally anymore):
"It clearly explains scientifically without a shadow of a doubt how homeopathic remedies can only be placebos. For example. (A 30X dilution means that the original substance has been diluted
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times!) this is so minute and microscopic it's like saying if you put a red drop of water in a mass of
water 50,000 times the size of the earth, that all that mass of water will turn red. That's impossible as the red molecules in the single drop are only a few molecules and can not cover 50,000 times the earth's mass in water and can only affect a limited microscopic amount of molecules. So the few molecules in a remedy you take, if even any are left after the dilution are actually more minute than a few dust particles on the surface of the remedy pill itself! How can something that minute that barely exists do anything? It's simply not possible. It sounds like people are paying billions of dollars a year for placebos which I think is wrong. Some dilutions are
"1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water". Do you have any idea how insignificant that is? Homeopathy is a billion dollar industry so I wouldn't expect them to come out and explain this to people. Advocates say these molecule sized dilutions spread throughout the entire body and causes a response. This is easily disproven because we ingest billions of particles that same size that we come into contact with daily, why is a particle from a remedy different than any other billions of particles we ingest? Why is it
magical?
http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...ics/homeo.html
Ok, so homeopaths actually admit that none of the real substance is left in the medication after the dilution. That it's somehow 'imprinted' itself onto the other molecules and leaves it's memory there. Unfortunately that's not possible. Those molecules can be observed 1 by one under an electron microscope and a molecule is a molecule,, it doesn't have memories
of everything it comes into contact with. Maybe something like that was believable in the 1700's, but now??? "The dilutions were extreme. Hahnemann was not bothered by the fact that at
high dilutions, none of the original substance remained. He claimed that the power of the curative solution did not come from the presence of an active ingredient but from the fact that the original substance had, in some way, imprinted itself on the solution. In other words, the water in the diluting solution somehow "remembered" the material that had been
dissolved in it several dilutions back. This imprinting process had to be carried out very carefully; a simple dilution of the solution was not enough. The vial had to be struck against a special leather pillow a fixed number of times in order to be "dynamized."
Royal London Homeopathy Hospital's comment on homeopathic vaccination...
"the position of the Faculty of Homeopathy at the Royal London Homeopoathy Hospital on immunisation is very simple and encapsulated well in the
following statement by it's president Dr DS Spence: "When there is no medical contradication, immunisation should be carried out in the normal
way using conventional tested and approved vaccines". Dr Spence then goes on to say "...we do not have the research data showing the persistence of satisfactory antibody levels after using homeopathic preparations for immunisation , and this is why the advice is to use 'conventional' vaccines if at all possible"
no single piece of evidence has ever shown it does a single thing to the human body. The homeopathic vaccines you speak of are not traditional homeopathic treatments. A homeopath said this and also said to stay away from them.there is even a 2.5 million dollar reward for anyone that can prove the human body reacts to a homeopathic remedy. To this day the reward has never been claimed because no homeopathic remedy has ever caused a visible or measurable reaction in the human body. It's a placebo effect and some evil companies are making billions selling it. You think drug companies
are bad? Atleast they spend billions in research, studies, and testing. Homepathic companies make billions but spend no money on research,, ask therich homeopathic CEO's why they fund no comprehensive scientific studies,,
they have the money to but don't need to,, people buy it on faith and their companies proving it's a placebo would make them go out of business. They are laughing all the way to the bank. They are actually worse than the drug companies. And the icing on the cake is, if a remedy doesn't work,then it must have been antidoted by something in the environment."

This made me laugh. Name one rich homeopathic pharmacy owner! The ones I know aren't terribly well off and they are a one-shop business.

See the below: http://csf.colorado.edu/envtecsoc/2001/msg00606.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/hea...00/1643364.stm

Also: you might like to see this thread from our own discussion forum about various "quackbusters".

http://www.homeopathyhome.com/cgi-bi...=2&t=004757&p=

The link that you gave is from one of the sites of these so-called "scientists". They rarely give their qualifications in assessing the science they review and even then, what determines what they say is "truth" and what we say is not?

If homeopathy was placebo, please ask your husband to explain why it works on animals and babies, who have no idea of the concept?

There are plenty of resources on the net where you can find evidence that homeopathy works. According to the scientists, remember, the earth was flat for a very long time! According to them, the sun revolved around the earth! According to them protons, electrons and neutrons were the smallest particles of matter.

Why do you need "science" to verify it, though? Once you work with babies and animals you tend not to worry about the scientific world. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

As for the RLHH, they are doctors first and, as such, have to tow the BMA line, i.e. that vaccination is safe. Otherwise, they, like Andrew Wakefield and several others before them, find themselves ostracised and/or worse.

As for the rest, I'll leave it to the others at this board who have far more qualifications in various fields than I do.

[ 06 February 2002, 07:48: Message edited by: Simone ]

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Regards,<br /><b>Simone H</b><br /><br /><i>Aude Sapere</i><br /><br />"Never be a passive listener or learner" ~ Christian Gottfried Hahnemann

It is absolutely true that science as it currently stands has no explanation as to why remedies potentised beyond about 12c which have no molecules of the original substance remaining in them, have any medicinal effect.
As Simone writes, homoeopaths and their patients (Animals and babies included)have found by experience that these potentised remedies do have a medicinal effect, so we have to assume that the scientific explanation as to why the remedies work is simply lagging behind practice. I for one would like to live to see the day when there is an explanation, because I think it would see a leap forward for homoeopathy.

There are some clinical trials (set up within allopathic parameters, far from ideal for a homoeopath to work with) that have demonstrated that potentised medicines are effective.
However as Simone points out there are no wealthy vested interests in homoeopathy, so there is no means of funding trials on the scale of the drugs industry. For example, the most expensive remedy one could order from a UK pharmacy would cost no more than £5, and it could be used such that it would last a lifetime.
The homoeopathic pharmacists I am acquainted with are highly ethical and dedicated individuals.

How often do you and your husband get to go to the beach? Have your husband prove to you that extremely diluted substances have no effect whatsoever. Have your husband go swimming while you dump some blood in the water. While this is not exactly homeopathic, the blood will be extremely diluted to any sharks that happen to be in the neighborhood (what shall we bet that he won't take you up on this?).

I say don't tell him that you put the blood in the water and leave him there.

Carolor - that wasn't nice funny but not nice

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Man, do not pride yourself on your superiority to animals. For they are without sin and you in your greatness defile the earth by your appearance on it and leave traces of you foulness after you. Dostoyevsky

Does your husband only believe in that which has been scientifically "proven"? How sad. He must have no belief in God, love, hope, etc.

The next time your husband has an injury - sneak some Arnica into his water and watch how quickly he heals. Then have him tell you it doesn't work.

[ 06 February 2002, 17:11: Message edited by: Barb ]

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Man, do not pride yourself on your superiority to animals. For they are without sin and you in your greatness defile the earth by your appearance on it and leave traces of you foulness after you. Dostoyevsky

Um, who cares what your husband thinks?

What do you think?

Go out and do your own research, ask people who've tried homeopathy, read up on the history of medicine...do whatever you need to do to find out what you need to know. If that isn't enough, go out and try homeopathy yourself...then, make up your own mind.

Here's a little something to stir your thought process: if what your husband says--and his "evidence" says--is so true, then why are there so many MDs teaching and using homeopathy exclusively today--as well as in the past? Why have so many famous homeopaths been conventional medical doctors who set out to discredit homeopathy--but then found out it works so much better than conventional medicine?

May be cause it works, huh?

You're an adult now, and don't need a Daddy to tell you what to think. Unless you're just looking to ruffle up a few feathers, yourself.

Aude Sapere.

Divina

[ 06 February 2002, 18:54: Message edited by: Divina ]

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...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

There is an interesting article by Norman Allen on this site in the articles section which I have shown to a sceptic scientist involved in research into Alzheimers who was suitably impressed. It is about Michel Benveniste's work with highly diluted DNA which reacted positively in tests when there should have been no DNA present. There is also a book available now. It's also written in scientific language which will appeal to the scientifically minded.

My husband is a reluctant convert to homoeopathy ever since I held a bottle of remedy under his nose when he was asleep and he commented he felt so much better.

Best wishes

Alison

[ 06 February 2002, 20:43: Message edited by: AlisonR ]