After a homeopathic presciption, patient is
reviewed after one month and patient reports
amelioration in all his complaints. There is also a feeling of general well being.
How to differentiate whether relief is because of simillimum or placebo effect?


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By giving placebo!

If it was my patient I would presume that the Remedy worked especially if there was an increase in energy. A patient telling me about a feeling of well being is good enough for me as the mental/emotional symptoms are the most important. "In tune with myself" is another phrase patients have used.

Thank you Ricky. Do you mean to say
"feeling of general well being" or "being
in tune with oneself" is not there with placebo effect?
Let's have something definite to differentiate between a placebo effect and the effect of a simillimum.

Placebo effect is generally defined as a general feeling of feeling better, but always wears off after some time and cannot indefinitively be reinduced. (The body knows the trick after a few times.)On the other hand, in susceptibles, it may work neary always. Ity is not so much what the patient says or the exact cjoice of words, but more a question of bearing and countenance. The palcebo effect never produces these. If you see a harried face the first time and a realxed face the second time, you know something has happened. It is undeniable and canno be explained by placebo-effect. The intensity and the pathological and physiological changes are other indicators.

Thank you Ben!

Thank you GM, Ricky and Ben. I appreciate your views. I feel this topic needs an in depth study and thorough discussion. What Ben has suggested is true but all those changes can be there in placebo effect as well.

We dont see any placeboeffects in babys, animals, unconscious people, etc, and in patients who have got their help by phone or by mail, besides, in a case, the patient dont know what reactions will come,we know, and when listening to a patient telling he is better, we always hear about ocurrences of small symptomes during treatment, that belong to his disease,or to the remedy, if its a wrong choice, and that have never showed before, sutch as firsttime aggravations, even if we never have mentioned them to him, or that he do know about them from another source, thus the remedy is confirmed.
This i have even experienced, when treating other experienced collegues. And it cant be explained as psycology, if we are better than the psychologists, and should have their degree, as we can in three days, or shorter, achieve what they cant do in twenty years!
We dont fell the need to question the remedys, only ouer selves, if giving good enough help.
A dr. will always try to find excuses for his practize,( like the placebo delution) because the conscience takes a heavy toll on him, and to realize what he is doing( allopathys menace to the world), it could even kill him, or he realizes the facts, repent, and become a Homeopath, throwing allopathy on the garbage heep, becoming a resource to the world.
Reality is harsh!

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Homeopat MNNH Geir E.T. Marcussen
email: getm@eunet.no
http://www.homeopati.no

Exactly! I do not believe for one instant you can fool plants either, and if you take a look in the older posts, you will find some information there.
Also I do not believe your claim that all I mentioned about the changes in patients occurs in any placebo-effect. I happen to have very reliable information, from studies doen at the Free University in Amsterdam, that such facial changes are never recorded in placebo trials. I have seen countless videos of placebo receivers and nobody can fool me to belive that it is the equivalent of what you see after the similimum. No placebo has effect - in fact not even a real allopathic medicine - within five minutes after ingestion. No medicine or placebo can change so profoundly the entire outlook of a patient, as is possible with the similimum.
If this whole thread is to prove us placebo prescribers, nice ploy.

Let us propose a scientific experiment. Dear Dr, I invite you to a dose of 50M Belladonna, to be taken 3 doses in a row, over a period of 3 days.
To assure you I will not give you anything remotely material - and thus nothing but placebo in your eyes - a 50M potency, comes down to 1 divided by 100, to the power of 50,000. or differently said, we take one drop and mix with 99 drops of either water or alcohol and give it ten hard succussions on a thick book. Then we take from this 1 drop and mix with99, again with ten hard slams on the book. This process is repeated 50,000 times. So there should be nothing left and be just water or alcohol - take your pick.

We will grant you the grace to not having to repeat the dose, in the unlikely event that something WILL happen. However, IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, WE LIKE YOU TO BE HONEST ENOUGH TO POST IT HERE AT THE BB.
As we figure that you will either scoff at it or take it serious, I await your reply in anticipation. It is only after that, that a sensible discussion about placebo effect can take place. And as experience is the best teacher, the ball is in your court.

[This message has been edited by Ben Rozendal (edited 28 September 1999).]

There is a big misunderstanding and confusion prevailing. Some of the replies are out of context. No where I have suggested that homeopathy is a placebo effect. The question was posted to stimulate healthy and scientific discussion. For homeopaths all over some of the concepts and principles have become subjective things. What I am interested in is if any member has clear scientific guidelines to differentiate between placebo effect and effect of simillimum?