Can someone tell me the approximate equivalent strengh of say LM1 and LM2 to its counterpart X/C potency, is it much lower?
before succussion of the LM. solution.

thanks - bill

I guess you could say it is not comparable to the x/c potencies, in that it is prepared so differently. X is one drop of tincture in 9 drops of water, succussed. C is one drop in 99 drops, succussed. LM is one drop in 50,000 drops, not succussed. It is succussed by the patient just before taking it, and the number of succussions depends on the person's sensitivity, as it is best able to be ascertained by the homeopath and patient. It is succussed as little as one time or up to about 15 times. It can be further diluted in dilution glasses, even several times, if the patient is highly sensitive. This way the remedy is spread to nerve endings all over the body via the imprint on the water molecule, but there is so little of the crude material that it has a very gentle effect. Yet, it can treat mental symptoms, which usually takes a high potency in the C's. So you see, it is a different story entirely.

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Kescah

Hahnemann gives instructions for making up LM potencies in 270 of the 6th edition of the organon. Mother tincture is made up to 3c in the usual way. One drop of is added to 500 drops of water and alcohol (one part alcohol, five parts water). One drop of this solution is added to 99 drops of water and alcohol (same ratio) and succussed 100 times. You now have the medicating potency for LM/1.

The last stage in the process is repeated to produce the medicating potency for LM/2. Repeat the last stage again and you have LM/3, and so on.


LM/1 = 5.5c
LM/2 = 8c
LM/3 = 10.5c

Each LM is 2.5c higher than the last.

Many thanks

Hi, I do not have the 6th edition and was relying on David Little's site, the grand advocate of the 6th edition! (That's www.simillimum.com.) There he repeatedly calls LM a 1/50,000 ratio compared to 1/100 for C's. Any idea why the difference, Rubric? One more thought- although 1LM, 2LM, and 3LM do contain some of the crude substance, (Avogadro's Number is passed at 4LM) they nevertheless can be used to treat very deep problems, unlike the low C potencies that they were compared to above. Thanks for the clarification, Rubric, and I am confused on the difference.

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Kescah

This is where I am not clear - I
have heard that LM's do seem to have deep acting effects, this would seem to put them at the high end of the C scale, but the LM's are in fact relatively low! Does this mean that the LM is a more general,less agravation potency for the whole constitution, or does the LM needs to be a much closer match to the patients specific condition!

Regards Bill -


[This message has been edited by Bill 2 (edited 21 April 1999).]

David Little says, "A 30c is much more immaterial then (sic) the LM1 but its remedial actions have much less medicinal power. This is why the LM1 acts more like a high potency yet it is still less immaterial." I think it is always important to choose the closest possible remedy, but LM's are used for people who are more sensitive, ie. nervous, quick moving persons, with rapid mood swings and quick alternations of symptoms, active senses, strong reactions to influences such as noise, lights, crowds, etc. They need to eat a careful diet, have multiple allergies or chemical sensitivities, are prone to side effects from herbs and vitamins, etc. They often have trouble sleeping. Usually in a state of hyperfunction and hypertension and need to be calmed down. These are the people that are aggravated by the centesimals. An aggravation may come toward the end of treatment with an LM, however. With a C it is likely to come early in treatment. Rochelle mailed me to point out that an LM has 100 succussions. I see that David Little says, "The 1/50,000 ratio with 100 succussions liberates a unique remedial potence...." I missed that before, sorry. But that is only once per level. Little also compares the potencies as Rubric above. Another quote from Little: "When we increase the succussions it seems to raise the frequency of the remedy to new harmonics. When we increase the amount it seems to increase the amplitude of the remedy. These have different effects on the vital force. The succussions seem to 'shake things up' while the amount seems to 'fill things out'... The succussions have a vertical affect while the amounts have a horizontal effect. The perfect balance of the two fills the entire space. When I need more medicinal power to stir things up I increase the succussions. When I wish to have more medicinal qualities I increase the dose." Once again, homeopathy is more than just a medicine, it is an art!

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Kescah

Hahnemann developed the LM scale of dilution because he was concerned that homeopaths were experimenting with higher and higher dilutions in the C-scale. He felt that these higher dilutions would produce too severe aggravations and, as we know, he was always searching for the highest ideal of a cure (to restore health rapidly, gently, permanently...in the shortest, surest, least harmful way- aph. 2). The result was the change of the dilution ratio from 1:100 to 1:50,000, which Hahnemann considered to be the most perfect.

The remedy is triturated to 3c because this is the point that all substances become soluable in water, even the metals. One grain of the triturated powder (0.6g)is dissolved in 500 drops of water and alcohol (40% water). This gives a dilution ratio of 1:500.

One drop of the 1:500 dilution is added to a further 99 drops of water and alcohol to give a dilution ratio of 1:50,000 (1 in 500 x 100 = 50,000). This solution is succussed 100 times to produce the LM/1 medicating potency.

One drop of the LM/1 potency is poured onto 500 poppy seed granules, each granule absorbing one 500th of a drop. These granules are put into a bottle and marked LM/1. One of these is disolved in a bottle of water and alcohol and given to the patient to use as directed.

To make the LM/2 potency, one poppy seed granule (having absorbed one 500th of a drop of the LM/1 potency) is added to a further 99 drops of water and alcohol and succussed 100 times. This solution therefore contains 1/500th of the LM/1 potency x 100 = 1/50,000. This is the liquid potency used to medicate poppy seed granules for LM/2.

The process is continued in this way to make LM/3 - LM/30, using the granule to transfer 1/500th of a drop. The granule is used instead of a whole drop (as in the C-scale) because adding one drop to 50,000 drops would mean having to succuss nearly 2 litres of liquid!

The indicated remedy is chosen on the same principles as with the C-scale. Treatment is usually starts somewhere between LM/1 and LM/6 depending on the vitality of the patient, and is continued without jumping in potency (LM/1 is always followed by LM/2, LM/6 by LM/7, etc.).

Hahnemann seems to have intended that the LM scale replace the C-scale altogether. However, the 6th edition of the Organon, which contained the instructions for the LM scale, remained unpublished for many years after his death. By the time it was published the C-scale had been firmly established, mainly by Kent, who never saw the 6th edition.

Practitioners today seem to prefer the C-scale because: 1)This is the scale they have been taught to use and are most comfortable with. 2) They cannot afford to replace their entire remedy stock with LM potencies. 3) They feel that the instructions on how to take LM's are complicated for the patient to follow and that patients prefer to take their medicines in the form of a pill.

LM's can be prescibed for any patient and are effective in both acute and chronic situations. Hahnemann seemed to believe that they brought about cure more quickly than the C-scale. This is because with the C-scale you generally wait for the patient to start to relapse before repeating the remedy. With LM's the remedy is repeated two or three times each day until the patient has been symptom-free for some time, begins to prove the remedy or shows signs of aggravation.

Advantages of the LM scale:

1) The main advantage in using the LM potencies is that aggravations can usually be avoided. If an aggravation does occur, it is usually mild copmared to the C-scale. If we view the patient's susceptibilty as a vessel, aggravation occurs when the vessel is full and the liquid flows over the sides. With the C-scale you are trying to work out if the vessel is roughly a 6, 12, 30, 200, 1M, 10M or CM in size so that you can pour in enough remedy to fill it. Cure does not take place until susceptibility is satisfied so aggravations are almost inevitable with the C-scale (the difference between a 1M and 10M is 9000 dilutions and 90,000 succussions). With the LM scale the remedy is dripped in drop by drop until the vessel is full and susceptibility is satisfied, hopefully without too much spillage.

This makes the LM scale very useful in treating skin diseases, difficult and serious chronic cases and various acute diseases. In fact, any situation where an aggravation will cause increased suffering or endanger the life of the patient.

2)The remedy is never repeated in the same potency. As the patient's vitality increases, the remedy is succussed and potency increased to match it. This can be adjusted by the patient until they find the rate of increase that is most suited their own curative process.

3) The practitioner can tell whether the remedy is correct within 4-7 days because the patient should begin to feel relief after a few doses of the medicine.

..........................

The principle behind the LM scale seems to be that the high degree of dilution reduces the duration and intensity of the remedy's action, while the high number of succussions raises it's dynamic strength. The result is a very gentle, but deep acting potency that can be repeated wthout risk of severe aggravation. If aggravation should occur it is usually of short duration and easily controlled.

This LM potencies are especially effective in treating cases of long-standing suppression, mental illness, in the primary stages of psora, syphilis and sycosis (where Hahnemann advocated repeated administration of the remedy) and in palliation of incurable cases without fear of aggravation. In the last instance, if correctly selected, the LM potencies may even bring about a curative response in apparently hopeless cases because of the depth and gentleness of their action.




[This message has been edited by Rubric (edited 22 April 1999).]

Rubric, thank you so much for clarifying all that for us! I printed it out and am putting it with my LM information.

One difference I note in Little's paper. He says, "Any strikingly progresssive amelioration is a sign that there is no reason to give a second dose as the case is already moving rapidly toward a cure. If there is a relapse of the symptoms before the attainment of the cure, the time has come to give a second dose. Many cases only need a few infrequent doses to carry them through to completion. If there is only a slowly progressive improvement on the single dose the medicinal solution may be repeated at suitable intervals to speed the cure. These intervals depend on the duration of the reaction fo the vital force to the remedy as there is no set fixed pattern that will work for each and every individual. After giving the first one or two doses the homeopath should have someidea of how long the reaction to the remedy continued. For example, if the LM1 potency produced a great improvement for one week, and then the case relapses, the remedy may be repeated around every 6 days in the beginning. If the reaction to the remedy lasts for two weeks it may be repeated every 12 or 13 days to maintain a continual improvement without relapse. When a remedy shows very little response after 4, 7, 11, or more days, the remedy should be repeated at conservative intervals until there is a response and the assessed. Once there is a secondary reaction by the vital force the remedy should be repeated at suitable intervals to maintain that response. The repetition of the remedy may be needed every 2, 3, 4, or more days under these conditions. It is often said that the LM potency should be given daily. This is incorrect. Only in the hyposensitive constitution can the LM ptoency be given every day or every other day for weeks on end. In the note to aphorism 246 Hahnemann says the LM remedies "MAY" be given daily, "IF NECESSARY". Every unnecessary dose will only slow down the cure or cause aggravations...." There's more, but perhaps this is plenty.... Nice to know how to treat the hypersensitive, is it not?

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Kescah

Yes. You've described my son to a T. Thanks to all for the great info. -K