I am wondering if the various ways of antidoting remedies might vary from person to person. I suspect yes. Some say coffee is a remedy, but some people may drink coffee everyday and be used to it. I don’t drink coffee so I might be much more susceptible to a potential antidote.

The reason I ask is because something knocked me clear out of my lycopodium induced blissful state. I only had the reversal last for 24 to 30 hours, and when I re-administered the 1 LM lycopodium I was back to feeling good -- but still far too mellow than what i am used to (no fire/motivation). (interesting side note: an hour and a half after taking the dose – I felt radically different. I was so relaxed I felt almost woozy, I could barely keep my head up and I became downright giddy—happy. I actually had to take an afternoon nap. I never could take afternoon naps in the past due to irritability.)

I am thinking that possibly garlic may have temporarily antidoted the remedy 2 days ago. I am not sure about this, but something threw me real good.

1. the strong odor of garlic
2. the drug-like activity of garlic
3. an allergy induced by garlic
4. none of the above.

[ 28. January 2004, 18:47: Message edited by: xanta ]

It is always possible but repeating the LM is the best thing you could have done. I think LMs are knocked out easily. I don't prescribe them only C potencies.

__________________
RSHom - Registered Homeopath

LMs are supposed to be repeated frequently, and they are supposed to be repeated before each dose's effect wears off.

You did not--I repeat DID NOT--antidote your remedy. Lm doses have a limited effect, creating a very quick arc of amelioration and then return to the original state. The beauty of LMs is that you don't have to wait for that return to the original state to redose, but you can use the body's reaction to the initial dose to establish a dosing pattern. So, for example, if the effect of your first dose lasted 4 days, and on the 5th day you felt as if you "antidoted" it, then you could establish a dosing schedule with your LMs so that you could take a dose every 4 days, altering the potency slightly each time by succussing your LM bottle one extra time than before. LMs are often prescribed to people who are weaning off allopathic drugs, or who use drugs of a recreational nature which will interfere with the work of the remedy. They are also used because you can bring about cure much more quickly with them if the dosing schedule is followed precisely.

Where as, with dry doses, you would have wait until the amelioration ended and your original state returned before redosing, or you'd risk interfering with the work of the vital force, or cause an aggravation.

I'm quite surprised your homeopath did not explain this to you thoroughly.

There is also a difference in the progression towards cure experienced by the patient: with LMs doses are taken as long as amelioration is experienced; that is, as long as you keep getting well on the LMs and you noticed continued improvements, you keep taking the LMs on the appropriate schedule of dosing. At some point, you will experience a sudden aggravation--where you have all your original symptoms return despite following your regimen. When that happens, you simply stop taking the remedy. The aggravation is the signal that no more medicine is needed. It will pass quickly, and then an even bigger (usually) amelioration will take place, though you won't need any more medicine.

Also:

Coffee is not a remedy. Coffea Cruda is, though.
Camphor is not a remedy. Camphora is.
Peppermint is not a remedy. Mentha Piperita is.

It's important to understand that you can antidote a remedy with another remedy, but its rare that a crude substance will antidote the work of a potentized remedy.

'Course, if you follow up a dose of lycopodium with a night of excessive drinking, you're not going to feel the lycopodium's doing you much good till the hangover is long gone, as that hangover's just one more hurdle your vital force has to jump over before it can work on curing what ails you.

__________________
...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

I've used camphora (the remedy) with great results in antidoting a previous remedy. However, when I called Hahnemann labs to order it, they told me they do not manufacture it at their facility for fear of other remedies' contamination on-site. Hahnemann obtained it from another manufacturer (Boiron I think) and sent it to me.

Ricky thanks for your replies on hpathy forum.

I am interested in EFT; I have done it before with some interesting observations. I wonder how many other homeopaths might be ignoring this? But with so many things out there it would be understandable.

I gave up on EFT in favor of giving acupuncture a try. My reasoning was that acupuncture would save me the hassle of having to do it 5 times per day. Someone mentioned that that was not a big deal but it can be. Always trying to remember to do it.... trying to fit it in with a dozen other things I must do daily above what is normal.... I guess if I knew that at some point that I could reduce to 1 time per day it would make it easier. I plan on re-starting soon; i need to stick with it.


Cha cha

thanks for your reply. I read it 3 days ago but it opened up another line of questioning and much thought – so I held off on responding.

Just want to say that when people undergo homeopathic care it can open up hundreds of questions that are not answered by the homeopath. Also, I am seeing some variation in answers; this is good. The coffee issue is one. Maybe based on my particular constitution he thought coffee would be a perfect antidote. I told him that coffee provokes extreme reactions in me. Who knows?

Your last paragraph is highly relevant. I have always felt that alcohol is a serious detriment for some of us – especially me. It seems to magnify my problems by a factor of 5? – 10??? (it is severe whatever it is)

He has me taking lycopodium every day. Based on your response I am going to ask him why every day vs some other schedule. It may not be important but I have to know all the details.

He wants me successing the bottle 5 times each and every time. I read in Lansky’s book that they did something similar on a varying schedule of what you stated – interesting. (ex. converting a 1LM to a 2LM i believe --not sure on the daily number of successes)

The above paragraph has got me on overload. I do not doubt what you say but it creates many questions that I am going to have to mull over for a while. I think I may have to show this to him for his input.

An observation is that the lycopodium did something fairly rapidly. I only experienced a reversal for about a day and half. All the other days (since being on lycopodium) are about the same --- i.e., marked improvement in mood but jellyfish-like (need stimulation).

Interestingly, I now think the one day reversal may have been due to 2 immune provoking products. AI/E10 and Transfer Factor – both of these are being tested in CFIDS patients with interesting results. I will not bring this into the discussion as it is complicated but they seem to provoke strong responses (herxheimer effect). Therefore, I need to leave them out of the equation. They have almost drug like activity and we know about drugs and what they can do to homeopathic effects.


(the important thing is that i need to focus on what you said about the sudden aggravation -- i need to be on guard for this) (too many unformed/undeveloped questions is what i am dealing with)

Antidoting with crude substances (coffee, mint, tomatoes etc) is a myth - superstition that has unfortunately persisted to this day. It is possible to neutralise the effect of a remedy with medication or with another remedy, but only while there are symptoms to neutralise. You cannot antidote cure - there is nothing to antidote. And here I mean true cure - palliation of symptoms can certainly be upset by many things, as it is only temporary and has left the disease still bubbling away underneath.

In 10 years of practice I have never seen true cure antidoted. I HAVE seen remedies that have had partial, temporary, palliative or suppressive effects antidoted. This sanme experience has been expressed at many seminars I have attended (Jan Scholten, Alise Timmerman, Frans Vermeulen, Rajan Sankaran).

It is possible to block the curative action of a remedy, during aggravation, by suppressing the symptoms that are arising with anything - herbs, medication, remedies. Once the cure is effected, then there is nothing to antidote (or should be).

I feel many practitioners blame their patients for the poor stability of their "cures".

__________________
David Kempson.<br />Dip.Homoeopathic Medicine.<br />Lecturer Australian College of Natural Therapies (Brisbane Campus)<br />Member AHA, AROH, HMA<br />Member Australian Homoeopathic Association. Member#0442.

divina & davidjk thanks again. The homeopaths on these boards have given me much to think about.

I was able to bump my appointment up till tomorrow (Thursday feb 12th). I quit taking the lycopodium a few days ago and I may be doing better but it is difficult to tell due to overcoming a hurdle in my personal life (i.e., am I happier because I got rid of the lycopodium or due to the hurdle???)

This whole process is mind boggling. I have taken 5 extremely large batches of chinese herbal medicine teas and that makes me wonder if I messed up the picture.

Right now I feel as though my symptom picture is not nearly as clear as it was prior to homeopathy. I sure hope the homepath can wade through my inconsistencies and ambiguous reports of symptoms.

I had my 45 minute consult with the homeopath and he told me that he was going to study my case much closer. I guess he is going to see if he can come up with a closer match. In the mean time he gave me a small dose of 200c sulfur. He did not think that it was the best match for me but he did concede that I tend to theorize much more than the average patient. Also, it was the 2nd time in a month that I tested for it as a strong need (kinesiology testing).

It is way too soon to comment on it but so far I have had massive amounts of diarrhea. Digestive upsets seems to be the norm for me upon starting any remedy. Based on what nux vomica and lycopodium have done for me so far concerning diarrhea, foul gas, underarm odor – it makes me think that the remedies are getting my body to throw off some unwelcome guest…be it bacteria, mycoplasma, mycobacterium, bacteriophages or something. The underarm odor is a symptom that perplexes me the most. Normally I have none at all due to excellent dietary habits, not overeating, probiotics, homemade goat yogurt. –so why do I end up with so much odor after taking the remedies? Am I killing something off? The homeopath agreed with me about killing something off, but who really knows.

The sulfur remedy may not do anything for me; time will tell. –so far my sinuses are completely clear and I feel relatively normal. I hardly ever feel normal ---hmmmm? I’m a little tired but it is a good tired. Maybe it is due to being up half the night with diarrhea. Hopefully the diarrhea was my body throwing something off due to the push from the remedy.

Hmmm....I know even Kent suggests treating unclear cases with Sulphur or Nux vomica, but I feel it is just exposure of a Homoeopaths lack of understanding of a case, which this person has (quite honestly and correctly) expressed to you.

Giving remedies that are not correct will confuse things. That is the way it works. A remedy that does not cure must do something, and it may produce new symptoms or shift around the old ones, thereby making you more difficult to cure. It is better to do nothing than to knowingly give the incorrect remedy. Your homoeopath seems approachable and willing to admit his lack of clarity in your case - perhaps you should ask him to wait until he is sure, before giving a remedy.

__________________
David Kempson.<br />Dip.Homoeopathic Medicine.<br />Lecturer Australian College of Natural Therapies (Brisbane Campus)<br />Member AHA, AROH, HMA<br />Member Australian Homoeopathic Association. Member#0442.

If the case ever becomes very unclear would that be a good time to switch to something like acupuncture? Acupuncture has had some very interesting effects on me. Among the effects, I got sick both times after the treatment. It was like getting the flu. It also had some unmistakable effects on my emotions. It caused me to have this giddy laughter that I could not control.

I’m in a race against time to get well. Every spring I go from bad to out-of-control-bad. I don’t think I want to wait 3 or 4 months for the picture to get clear again.

The 200c sulfur remedy has resulted in both of my eyes blowing out. I was out jogging in extremely freezing weather and all of a sudden I felt a stabbing pain in my right eye. Within a short time 1/3rd of it was all red and dry. The left eye developed a similar problem 24 hours later. It could be due to the cold but that has never happened before.

I am thinking it might be an aggravation. I had another bout with an odor problem from my underarms. –but it was not nearly as bad as what happened after the nux vomica and lycopodium. Diarrhea also hit me very hard 24 hours after taking the dose. In fact it woke me up twice. I hardly ever get diarrhea and even if I do it does not occur at night.

I see that sulfur is supposed to help control diarrhea at that time of night. I may not be a perfect match for sulfur due to the lack of skin issues but several of the descriptions are similar. My feet will break into the cold sweat as stated by Ullman on page 245. This is a symptom that I have failed to reveal to either homeopath. I mentioned that my extremities tend to be cold but never sweaty.

It seems that yesterday my sinuses were draining the whole day. This usually never happens. I usually stay plugged until around 8PM or so and then something happens and I can clear up in a matter of 1 hour. It is like a switch is thrown releasing a valve.