If Snoopy is saying vaccination by homeopathy is a waste of time, I second that opinion. This is what Hans is trying to say, too: what remedy are you going to use? You have no symptoms on which to prescribe! How can that be homeopathic?

What seems most obvious to me is that the medicines to which you are referring ARE NOT HOMEOPATHIC REMEDIES. They are combination polypharmacy drugs, which are damaging to the body. The people marketing this stuff are cashing in on the public's interest on alternative medicine, specifically, in homeopathy. These substances are not homeopathic remedies, and they are not produced by homeopaths or used by homeopaths. It is conventional medicine using some new marketing materials .

I repeat: it is NOT HOMEOPATHY.

Why bother using any of that stuff?
If you're going to go that route, you are better off getting vaccinations--at least we know what damage they do!

Snoopy is absolutely correct: we can treat these diseases easily and effectively with appropriately prescribed homeopathic remedies. We ought not to be imitating the vaccination model--giving the drug BEFORE there is any need--because we don't need to stress the body with unnecessary drugs when it is not ill.

When and if the actual illness occurs, it will be treatable with homeopathic remedies.
The real ones--the ones on which proving protocol were applied...the ones we know will work.

No one knows what combination remedies like the ones you are describing do--except that they make the sellers pretty wealthy, and the patients pretty sick.

Divina

[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: Divina ]

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...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

NOW, WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE!

I am so happy to be receiving this *negative* feedback.

I almost knew this sounded to good to be true. Thank you, Divina, for your opinions. I understand now why this is not true homeopathy and why it should probably be avoided. It makes sense that yet again, someone has recognized another way to make money and take advantage of unsuspecting people. I was almost one of them!

Being a *concerned mom*, it is sometimes still so easy to doubt my own decisions, like the one I have made against immunizing my kids. And continually hearing messages of how important it is to immunize, I thought this was the answer to my prayers. But still, I had questions, and you all have helped me to see this product for what it really is. A hoax and maybe even worse.

I guess I will continue on without this or any other immunization, and if my children or I do get sick with a serious illness, I will run to my homeopathic doctor to be treated appropriately.

Is this what you recommend? Feel free to continue commenting as I will continue to enjoy reading your responses.

Thank You All!

Hi again, Concerned Mom,

I do recommend every parent become thoroughly informed about vaccinations before making any decisions about whether or not their children should be subjected to them. This means they have to educate themselves as well to the roles particular childhood diseases play in childhood development--both on levels concerning actual physical and intellectual capabilities in the human being and in terms of developing strength and self-sufficiency in terms of immunity.

What I heartily recommend is that an effective treatment method be accessed and used in case any question arises--so, yes, finding a keeping a good classical homeopath is very important! When you find one you trust and like, who is competent and very concerned for you and your family, HOLD ON TO THEM and always consult them in case of need.

There are some excellent articles about childhood diseases and how to treat them without vaccinations...and homeopathy has a long tradition of doing this effectively.
Take a look at the homeopathyhome.com's references section, where you will find a list of very good articles which will answer some questions for you.

Good luck!

Divina

__________________
...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

Hi, with all due respect to all,

We know that vaccinations can be and often are extremely damaging. They include heavy metals. Just one thing I learned about Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, for example, is that 80% of the cases had a bad reaction to their DPT shots. (Quoting an OCD support facilitator.) This is not a disorder I would want to recommend to anybody! And it takes years to cure homeopathically, if at all. And this is just one example.

I have homeopathically immunized my family against the flu for 17 years. We stopped having flu's, and my son doesn't even know what they are like. That may not seem all that important, but with the Spanish flu, or some such thing, I would rather not get it at all than have to try to get well with remedies- until the remedies work 100% of the time, which they didn't with the Spanish flu, although they were far more effective than other treatments. If a new deadly flu appears, I will be obtaining the nosode! As for the changes it can make in the person's vital force, I can only say that I am thrilled with the changes in my vital force over the last 17 homeopathic years! I used to say that I would never live to be 50. I turned 50 in September, and have never in my life felt so good and energetic. It is due to my homeopathic treatment, and that included nosodes both for miasmatic treatment and for immunization. Dare I confess here to taking Tuberculinum every fall for prevention? I do (but that is possibly not for everyone,) and my frequent cases of bronchitis/chest colds are now either gone or mild.

Is it necessary to immunize for polio? Probably not, unless you should be exposed to it, IMHO. Maybe the same with other diseases. I do immunize my family annually for anything that I fear could arise. We use Influenzinum 3 nights in a row in the fall, and one dose in the spring. Same with Tuberculinum, after giving the Influ a week or two to do it's job. I have on hand Diptherinum, Pertussinum, Tetanus, Variolinum, etc. in case I think I should give them. Oscillo works well on head colds, sometimes, I've never immunized with it, but may. I've used these things right alongside our constitutional treatment, and been very pleased with the results. I recognize there are different schools of thought, but this is a good option for those who want some prevention, IMHO. Orthodox vaccinations do not always work, and I feel that homeopathic immunization is a better option with better and safer results. My daughter who had vaccinations (and now has OCD) got whooping cough anyway, and until it was treated with Pertussinum, it was horrible. One dose of Pertus made her quit coughing immediately, and she had to be redosed about once every two days, but was very well during this time. It was exactly the same for my son, at the same time, who had never been vaccinated.

Let me add that I would not use combination immunizations, just the nosode. And if you are under constitutional treatment, check with your homeopath.

[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: Kescah ]

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Kescah

Kescah,

What you describe is "using a nosode" before you have any sign of the illness.

This isn't homeopathy, and it might work for you, but the truth is we can't be assured of reproducing the results you've had scientifically.

Using a specific nosode for a specific illness could work--but again, this is not "like cures like". Technically this is a form of isopathy, which is not homeopathy. Things are catch as catch can with isopathy...but not with homeopathy: you find the similimum, it works. Similar is not equal to "the same"; the scientific law for the efficacy of homeopathy is based on the law of Similars--that is why it is far more efficacious than isopathy.

Thank you for pointing out that you have never used combination drugs for this purpose; the question was raised regarding combination polypharmacy drugs after all...which I would say are worse than worthless--they cause damage we can only guess about. Vaccines cause damage too, but we know what to expect and we know what we're dealing with. The same can not be said for combo polypharmacy--and homeopathy can only correct that damage with great difficulty.

Divina

__________________
...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

Dear Concerned Mom,

Thank goodness the ever-eloquent Divina came along when she did; she explained the fallacy of "homeopathic vaccination" with her usual command of the issues!

I'm glad Kesach's method of taking nosodes at certain times of the year to prevent illness works for her, but I have to tell you, it's no different than conducting a proving on yourself, if you know what I mean by that:

Specifically, a group of healthy people takes a remedy in the cause of science, and sees what will happen. Some will have a beneficial experience, some will experience nothing, and others will actually take on the "picture" of the remedy, and for instance--since Kesach mentioned Tuberculinum--this is one remedy you do not want to "prove". My daughter was prescribed Tuberculinum last year; it did not help her, but she did prove it! She became restless, couldn't sit still, became rude, insulting and obnoxious and it lasted for two weeks. This is the risk you take every time you take a remedy needlessly when you are not sick.

I could take almost any remedy that I don't need right now and justify it by saying I'm preventing something. Every remedy treats some horrible condition that you would happily do without, but no one believes that this is the way to use or get results from homeopathy.

(Now hopefully Divina will translate.)

Snoopy

[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: Snoopy ]

[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: Snoopy ]

***Every remedy treats some horrible condition that you would happily do without, but no one believes that this is the way to use or get results from homeopathy.***

Snoopy, since you are trained (assuming) in homeopathy, of course YOU know that this is not the way to use or get results from homeopathy.
I did not know this, having little experience and no training in this field. Apparently there are many other unsuspecting victims lacking this knowledge, also, if this *homeopathic vaccination* company exists and is generating interest and business.
I don't know if you actually went to the website and checked it out. How can this company sell this product under the homeopathic name if you all are telling me that it is not homeopathic medicine? They sure fooled me.
At least I'm glad that I came here and got some input as to what this product really is. I'm wondering though, just curious, what exactly are polypharmacutical (?spelling) drugs? Who makes them and why are they marketed under the homeopathic name?

Thank you once again.

Hi,

I've been watching this discussion with interest! The opinions expressed were all right in their own way, in my opinion adn the most complete, homoeopathic one is by Divina.

You see, there are so many "variations" of homoeopathic prescribing, and at the moment there is a struggle to maintain the Hahnemanian, classical single remedy approach. Luckily on this BB most of us suscribe to this method.

But there is a multitude of views out there, and there is no way of proving who is right and wrong. After all, "Homoeopathy is unscientific" the "scientists" of this world will declare!

So we have, Poly Pharmacy, Electro homoeopathy, Practical homeopathy, Isopathy, Allopathic homoeopathy and what not, all trying to be significant in their own right. They to claim to have results. Well. I won't comment.

So what do you do? I don't know, Concerned mom. It will have to be your decision. Take all the opinions from here and make up your mind. I would think, if you carried on for so long without vaccinations, you would be able to go on some more. And be on a watch out for an epidemic that would require a preventive nosode or something like that. Better than vaccination. I wouldn't worry if the company is being ethical or not. Its gone on for decades. At least now we have a forum to clear these doubts.

Vaccination by itself is only Isopathy, or even Homoeopathy in its crudest form. But we all use it anyway!

Warm regards,
doctorleela

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Hi everyone. Forgive me for jumping in, but what about the current threats of anthrax and small pox? What nosode should one have on hand?

thanks for your reply.

kv

Hi,

I posted a very good article about the fallacy of the biological threat of anthrax, as well as the unlikelihood of succumbing to diseases such as small pox, should exposure take place. The post is in the thread called "Bioterrorism remedies" or something like that. I'll look it up and repost it here.

Basically, you would treat any sign of illness, no matter what it is, exactly the same way: take the case and prescribe on the presenting symptom totality.

This applies to smallpox, anthrax, botulism, AIDS, ebola, the flu, eczema, backache, migraines, sprained ankles, stroke, scraped knees, cooking accidents, whatever ailment you can think of, without exception.

When you've got some symptoms to find a similimum with, you can use homeopathy properly to cure. Without any symptoms to go on, you're just popping remedies blindly, which as Snoopy rightly demonstrates, will give you a nice, painfull proving of the drug you took.

Don't get suckered into an hysteria: vaccinations, threats of biological warfare (against one of the few nations actually wealthy enough to devise and carry out research in the field, and which has been one of the few nations to actually use biological weapons against anyone else? Please...it just doesn't add up.) the same tactics are being used to entrench fear as a motive for using dangerous and often useless drugs against "threats" which are minimal at best.

Dr. Leela, I've often heard the argument about vaccinations being a kind of "isopathy", but the truth is, they simply are not. They share no common ground with homeopathy, simply because they are supposed to "prevent" something by effectively creating a latent chronic form of the disease. Same with isopathy: you'd take isopathic substances after being affected by the actual substance anyway--not before; plus, there is nothing isopathic about a concoction containing variegated forms of the purported disease-cause plus several other compounds of toxic elements. Human beings are never exposed naturally to such a concoction to suffer from a particular disease; the pathogen may be present but the susceptibility to the disease must exist as well, then a person becomes ill. So, technically, you are not using the same substances associated with the disease at all.

Vaccinations are a scientifically unsound allopathic method which bears no similarity to homeopathy or isopathy whatsoever.

Divina

__________________
...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine