Just a quick question... I understand the difference between the unconscious mind and the vital force, but what exactly are the functions of both of these and how can homoeopathic action be explained using both these aspects of the body?

Hello Mel, I am trying to learn about this kind of thing myself, and I can only share my current thoughts.
From what I understand, the unconscious mind does not have anything to do with homoeopathic prescribing because it is un-knowable either to the individual or an observer. ie. since it is UNconscious, the individual is not conscious of it. The observer [homoeopath] cannot know it either - s/he should not speculate about it because Hahnemann forbids speculation and judgement, and tells us as homoeopaths only to use verifiable signs and symptoms - to be unprejudiced.
As to the function of the unconscious mind - it's a question for psychology/ religion so I can only hazard a layperson's guess - I think of it as a pool of experience that we don't have resources to deal with in the conscious mind, that comes back at us from time to time for further processing. Could it be something to do with personal evolution?

The vital force is a homoeopathic term for the energy that keeps us going - mind and body - it separates us from the dead. When it is out of balance it shows signs and symptoms in the body and/ or mind, which can be used to make a homoeopathic prescription by which means the vital force is brought back into balance, so removing the symptoms.

Great topic!!
I would say that the unconscience is an extension of the vital force and could serve as its voice. ie the language of dreams. A homeopath will not interpet dreams, however many remedies have had dreams as part of the provings.

The "unconscious" mind is just as important as the "conscious" mind in the activity of the human being, and both are extensions or expressions of the vital force.

It is not necessary to be speculative to observe a patient's "unconscious" at work. However, the homeopath must be able to observe, objectively, such symptoms in his/her patients. We know from provings that remedies have an effect on all the expressions of the vital force, including the "unconscious" mind: that is why there are dream symptoms recorded, delusions, and mental states which produce specific actions (such as gestures, tics, etc) and physical symptoms as well. Homeopaths call these "symptoms", obtained from provings. We simply observe these symptoms in patients, and repertorize them if they are important to the totality of the case.

Some people have the mistaken belief that homeopaths "try" to be psychologists in their case taking. I think this is a big misunderstanding about homeopathy, held by those who know little about it.

I'm puzzled as to what the big confusion could be here: in case taking, it is possible a patient would not know WHY they absolutely had to touch something sitting on your desk--they might not even be aware they made such a gesture (though some are aware that they can't help themselves). The WHY would be irrelevant to the homeopath. However, it would be important for the homeopath to note that the patient made these gestures during the consultation; the gestures themselves could easily be repertorized--NOT the possible motives behind them. Often, "unconscious" gestures made by the patient become some of the most important symptoms in the totality of the case. Again, no speculation is needed to recognize this and to repertorize it just as it occurs. This is usually taught very clearly in the first year of studies in homeopathy: don't bother trying to figure out the "mental state" or motive behind a patient crying in your office: just repertorize that he cried while he was telling you his symptoms!! No point speculating that there might be a cancerous lesion on your patient's brain if your patient simply had to keep poking at paper clips, dispensers, and pens on your desk--or even that he might be nervous about seeing you! Just repertorize that he touches objects on your desk!
So simple.

Psychology and psychiatry are allopathic treatment methods which are not employed by homeopaths, so obviously there is no need to know about or practice these things in tandem with homeopathy. Homeopaths aren't interested in learning why a patient's vital force expresses itself in its own particular way: they are only interested in observing how it expresses itself when it is distuned, so that they can use that totality to find the similimum.

Divina

__________________
...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

Hi Mel,
I can certainly agree with the above. (Well put Divina)However, upon rereading your post, you may be familiar already with the answers so far. Don't you ask for the function of the unconscious mind and the vital force during homeopathic action ? Do you mean the action of the homeopathic remedy, once given ? Can you clarify please ?
Claudia

Divina
Well put. Remember doing a psychoanalysis or any other type of Transendental Speculation into the reasons behind the patient is of great entertainment value for Sulphurs. They could spend hours with this hobby.

One of my instructors will have his patients sit in a swivel office chair so that they will not feel constraint and will do what ever that feels natural to them. He may have knickknacks close by to see if they play with them. It helps give a fuller picture.

I would like to respond to Divina's points :

"We know from provings that remedies have an effect on all the expressions of the vital force, including the "unconscious" mind: that is why there are dream symptoms recorded, delusions, and mental states which produce specific actions (such as gestures, tics, etc) and physical symptoms as well."

If one defines "the unconscious mind" as a part of a human being, then yes, remedies will affect it [whatever it is.] However it cannot be used as a source of symptom-gathering for the reasons stated earlier, and for a homoeopath to pay it any attention is to be both more and [importantly] less than a homoeopath.

Regarding dreams - if they are remembered they have become conscious and are reportable by the patient. ie. they are not part of the UNconscious once they have become manifest to the conscious.
[the source of dreams is never more than speculative - there is a neat little paper about them by a Freud scholar and philosopher at StAndrews University, R.Squires, in which it is argued that it cannot be shown that dreams exist other than as illusions of memory.]

Delusions are discussed on another ongoing thread.

As for "mental states which produce specific actions (such as gestures, tics, etc) and physical symptoms as well" - all homoeopaths need to do, as Divina states later, is to:
"repertorize it just as it occurs"
Specualtion about the role of the unconscious mental state in relation to them is not a part of homoeopathy.

UNconscious mind is unknowable, therefore of no use when prescribing. Conscious mind can be of great use.

I'm laughing at the idea of the swivel chair for the patient, and the endless mental speculation and theorization of the sulphur patient!! I know of one homeopath who keeps a painting hung on the wall behind his head...and it is always slightly crooked. He notes those patients who simply MUST straighten it out! It almost always gives away the arsenicums and the carcinosins...

Anna, just because I can clearly remember a dream, doesn't mean I know what it signifies to me or its relevance. But there must be some significance there for me, because I HAD THE DREAM. Some psychologist may believe that they are "illusions of memory", but the truth is, they are a neurological reality: a fact. They DO exist as a human experience. They are a concrete expression of ourselves, to ourselves...and we don't necessarily have to be conscious of them for them to a)exist and b)have relevance and influence over us.

Just because I am aware of my personal quirks and quarks--even if I know when and how I will act or react--doesn't mean I'm always aware of what powers them. Perhaps you can correctly say that I have some consciousness of the physical realities of them--but I am in no way conscious of why/what reasons exist for them to take place.

But, on an unconscious level, I'm well aware, and I'm (my vital force, my spirit, Chi, whatever you want to call it) carrying things out precisely the way I want to.

For instance: I know I'm very sensitive to music. Any music, no matter how joyful and gleeful, makes me weep if there is a beautiful voice involved. So, I know what will happen when I'm driving along and Ella Fitzgerald comes on the radio, singing something innocuous like "Stomping At The Savoy".
I get into the song, and soon I'm sniffling and my eyes are watering.

It doesn't make sense, it serves no purpose that I've found, and it is not something I have any real control over (I guess I could just stop listening to the music...which usually works)

Do I know why this happens? Nope. Can I even guess? No way. But it happens, and it must be happening to serve some purpose--because it really is an expression of my vital force, isn't it?

Does it matter? Nope. Just repertorize something along the lines of "sensitive to music; weeps on hearing music"....whatever could apply. Obviously the unconscious IS important--but we don't need to figure out what its doing to know it carries some weight in our lives. That is for each patient to work out for him/herself, isn't it? That stuff is part of the work they have to do to get better--but it isn't what a homeopath does to practice.

As for using unconscious stuff in a case--
you bet I do!! They are often the best symptoms on which to repertorize. I'm thinking of a case right now which looked and sounded like Nat Mur or Ignatia, including the physicals (high blood pressure, hypoglycemia): but, in taking the case, I realized those remedies couldn't fit. So, I stopped listening to the patient and just watched her--sure enough, she made many unconscious gestures that I would have missed entirely if I'd just paid attention to her "conscious" expressions. Carphologia, hiding the face with her hands, arms, and language; suspiciousness, reflected in a number of questions regarding the safety of homeopathy--it was all there, and all unconsciously (to the patient, who didn't even realize she was doing these things). Those symptoms were given priority in repertorization, and when it came time to check the Materia Medica, I kept other "unconscious" clues in mind (such as the way my patient furnished her home, and how she chose to live--which was unusual, to say the least--)and I gave a dose of hyoscyamus for her depression and sadness following an ongoing, unhappy love affair. I asked her to continue monitoring her blood pressure with her doctor, and continue seeing a psychotherapist to monitor her depression. She was not taking any anti-depressants, but I wanted other medical professionals to confirm any positive changes in her emotional and physical state, just because she had a suspicious nature.

A month later, I received a post-card from her: turns out she got dumped by the lover after all (surprisingly, she was okay because he finally made a decision, one way or the other!) and had resumed her very creative work in writing and activism. Her doctor was very impressed with the stabilization and normalization of her high blood pressure, and her psychotherapist is very pleased as well. She feels cured--but of course, I'm still following up because I'm curious to see what continues to happen with her long standing "physical" ailments, such as the hypoglycemia. She's had it for 20 years or so; I'm watching to see it disappear for good.

I doubt I would have been able to affect the same results without considering her unconscious activity to be the most important.

Divina

[ 03 October 2001: Message edited by: Divina ]

__________________
...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

Divina

Do you leave a window open to see if your patient is an Aurum?

Use of signs like gestures is good, yes - just as Hahnemann directed. Just seems unecessary to bother to attribute them to anything such as the unconscious - an unhomoeopathic term. As homoeopaths can we not think of all marked gestures along with other signs as derangements of the vital force. I don't think the unconscious was even invented in Hahnemann's day.
Take those observations for what they are and repertorise is all we have to do. eg we don't have to say, ah that patient hides her face therefore x,y,z. All we have to do is to repertorise hiding.

As for dreams, unless they are brought to consciousness [ie remembered] they remain useless to us, if they exist at all! Only consciously remembered dreams can be of use - in which case they are not UNconscious. Don't know how I can put it more clearly.

Nice idea about setting up all the keynote tests in the office. Well-intentioned entrapment, like a questionnaire in clinic form.