otherhealth.com  

Go Back   otherhealth.com > Homeopathy > Homeopathy Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 29th August 2001, 03:11 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,568
Snoopy is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

P.S. I just wanted to add, I'm very proud that everyone on this bulletin board knew the right thing to say. Even people who are partial to "C" potencies like Shirley knew exactly the proper way to administer an LM.

Danielle, your homeopath really would do well to read the 6th ed. of the Organon, which he obviously hasn't. The whole reason Hahnemann invented the LM potencies was to avoid aggravations! He said the first thing you should feel on an LM potency is a sense of calm and inner peace. He said that the real homeopathic aggravation comes at the end of treatment when you're well and finished with the remedy at which time there may be something of a healing crisis or a proving, as there would be nothing left for the remedy to treat. But what people commonly refer to as "the aggravation" is what Hahnmann referred to as a "medicinal disease".

Here's a quote from the Organon explaining this: (#160, a.) "When the scabies patient complains of an aggravated eruption after taking sulphur, the physician consoles him with the assurance that the scabies must completely come out before being cured, even though he does not know why this is so; he does not know that this is a sulphur eruption, which only looks like an aggravation of scabies."

Isn't this basically what Danielle's homeopath said? That "the scabies must completely come out before being cured?"
Hahnemann says this is not scabies, this is sulphur--a medicinal disease, it has nothing to do with scabies. This is why he repeatedly says in the Organon "the so-called homeopathic aggravation", because the real aggravation, again, comes at the end of treatment, not at the beginning.

Snoopy
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 29th August 2001, 07:27 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,568
Snoopy is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

Danielle,

How are you today, any better? Are you still stiff and sore? You can try a dose of Rhus tox 30C. Let us know how you are.

Snoopy

[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: Snoopy ]
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 29th August 2001, 03:18 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: New york
Posts: 167
Danielle
Post

Thanks for all your replys and Snoopy thanks for asking if I am ok!!!!!!! I stopped the remedy and am starting to feel just a little better. Since I started the Nat Mur LM1 I have been sick. I felt a cough come on before the LM1 and then I started getting stuffy and constipated and was still caughing. Then everything I was eating seemd to make me sick and I feel Like I had a 48 hour stomach bug. When the hot flashes came on and my whole body ached from my brests to my arms, just all over I called my homeopath because I justed needed to know what was going on. I could not even turn my head to the left because it was so sore. I had to take some advil. I also has such discharge from my stomach being up set and could not tell if this was from the remedy or an aggraviation from the food. But he asked me how my energy level was and it seemd ok I just started getting scared that I could be getting really sick. He said if my enenrgy level had changed that would be a problem but today I feel tired, still ache but not like before and just overall low energy. I still have a cough but not too bad and he had told me not to treat it. But I had to because I couldn't sleep at night or go to work coughing on people. I took a herbal cough expectorant which I felt was not supressing anything. Besides I had the cough before the Nat Mur so I felt it was a true cough. I feel my homeopath can be heavy handed on how he tells me to take a remedy.

And honestly this had changed things for me. My experiences on homeopathy used to be so good. I feel depressed about getting better now because it seems like I have to feel a lot worse before I get better. I am a bit confused about the "aggravation" thing.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 29th August 2001, 06:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,568
Snoopy is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

Danielle,

You do Not have to feel worse before you get better, especially if you're on an LM. Your homeopath doesn't seem to have a clue. He's doing Hahnemannian prescribing with Kentian philosophy--which is, an aggravation is a good sign; but that's because the Kentians give high potencies, which means they often over-stimulate the vital force, thus causing an aggravation. Hahnemann invented the LM's to stop this from happening. He said the first thing you should feel after a remedy is a sense of calm. If you're not feeling this, stop the remedy. If no amelioration follows, it is most likely the wrong remedy.
Some people get well on just one dose of an LM, so you shouldn't assume it has to be taken every day. If you take one dose and there's a remarkable improvement, wait. Take the 2nd dose when you start to relapse.

Also, the thing about LM's or any daily prescription is that you're expected to take care of acutes as they come up. No point in taking nat-m if you've got a Rhus tox acute. The vital force is no longer focused on the nat-m issues, so there's no point in continuing with it. You stop the remedy and take a remedy that matches the acute, then go back to nat-m if it's working, if it's the right constitutional remedy.

So, if the acute you have is abating, I would just wait a while longer--be sure to get back to us and let us know what's going on.

Snoopy
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 29th August 2001, 07:13 PM
Divina's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: southern ontario, canada
Posts: 1,310
Divina is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

I'd advise the same thing--only if you do restart the LM Nat Mur, I'd want to make sure the dosing schedule and protocol is adjusted for your case.

You still haven't answered the question about how you've been dosing with the LM; and you could antidote by changing the potency preparation effectively. But I agree that the simplest thing to do is just wait for the pain to stop at this point.

One other suggestion I have for you is that if you've experienced curative results using dry doses and c potencies before, you may want to stay with those dose formats, as they seem to work better for you.

Divina
__________________
...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 29th August 2001, 08:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: New york
Posts: 167
Danielle
Post

Hi Divina,

I was taking LM1 of Nat Mur and he gave it to me and told me to success 10 times before each use and drop 4 to 5 drops in a cup of water a little less than half full. Then stur and take a gulp.

The first remedies I ever took were Sepia and Nat Mur. Sepia was 30C and Nat Mur was 6c I think. They both seemed to work at first but sepia stopped working the second moth I was on it at. But I remember the first moth my period had changed for the better and I was amazed at homeopathy it just didn't seem to stick. The Nat Mur work too for my allergies. My food allergies were completly gone but seeme to come back a year later. But Back then I didn't know the word aggravations it just seemd to me to be all cure and I felt safe and was excited to get well using homeopathy. But I guess my case seems more complicated than I though or maybe it's all in finding the correct dose.
I too though Nat Mur was the correct remedy to choose and so did my homeopath after reworking my case but from the minute I took it this last time (LM) I started feeling stuffy and then both stuffy and constipated. That happend very shortly after taking the remedy. He said that was a good sign.

I'm not sure what to do next. If I should call him or just wait till I feel better. I do feel better except for my nose and ears. I have a bit of an ear ache and my nose is a little stuffy but nothing like how I was feeling yesterday or two days ago.

I'm afraid he will get mad if I tell him I stopped taking the remedy but I did what I felt was right. I have been on the BB for about two years now so when something doesn't feel right I know I can get a second opinion.

I have had a hard time finding a good homeopath and this time I thouhgt I did but I think something is not right.

[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: Danielle ]
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 29th August 2001, 11:08 PM
Ricky's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Northern England
Posts: 2,087
Ricky is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

Danielle - if a dry dose of Nat Mur in a C potency worked for before I just can't understand why you've been put onto LM's. As everyone here knows I don't use LM's as the C potencies work just fine for me and my patients!!
__________________
RSHom - Registered Homeopath
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 30th August 2001, 01:33 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: minneapolis
Posts: 1,037
carolorr is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

Just to play the devil's advocate and Danielle..you can correct me if you think this is wrong...possibly in writing danielles expression of discomfort comes across better than when she is telling her homeopath in person or on the phone. It makes sense to me that we may "undersell" our symptoms in person or vice versa we can undersell our symptoms in writing (or oversell). Maybe the homeopath didn't get the gist of the discomfort.

Or was he looking for an emotional reaction from the nat mur? And any physical symptoms seemed insignificant....
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 30th August 2001, 02:42 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,568
Snoopy is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

There's just one thing you're forgetting though, Carol, Danielle has called him repeatedly, even several times in a day, which in itself can point to a remedy, or group of remedies, which he might have found instructive. Pulsatillas, Arsenicums, etc., the people with anxiety about health and needing constant reassurance....Nat-mur.'s generally don't cling, don't ask for help or reassurance. A nat-m. may have called once.

Snoopy
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 30th August 2001, 04:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 866
Chris Gillen is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

Danielle, Hi there,

There are a couple of comments I'd like to add about the predicament you found yourself in.

According to experienced LM prescribers, an LM1 is qualitatively similar to a 60C. That's 60C, not 6C! If someone wrote to this board and said they'd been taking a 60C dose of a remedy once or three times daily for days, weeks or months on end for a chronic condition I feel sure there would be a collective gasp of horror. Yet there is a perception in the general homoeopathic community that it's really quite OK to do this with LM's because of a misguided belief that they are gentle. Hahnemann considered the LM scale to be high and deep acting. The reason they are considered gentle is because when you go up the LM potency scale there is no large jump in impact as there may be with Centesimals, for example from 30C, 200C, 1M, 10M and so on. As well, each LM dose can be regularized specifically to suit the patient.

Some homoeopaths argue that Hahnemann advocated daily repetition of LM doses for all patients based on their interpretation of Aphorism 248 in the 6th edition of the Organon. Translation differences from the German of his day into English, and then between various publications have all contributed to the confusion.

But let's bring some common sense into the equation here. When you read and understand the 6th edition Organon in its entirety you understand that what Hahnemann meant is, he'd found with his new administration techniques, that he could now safely repeat the remedy daily, if necessary, to those patients with a hyposensitive constitution to speed up the cure. It is quite a different matter to prescribe daily doses to a moderately or hypersensitive patient and the results can be traumatic.

Dr Croserio who was with Hahnemann during the LM period (1840-1843) said Hahnemann almost NEVER used the daily dose in chronic cases. The documentation to support this is freely available to anyone interested in LM prescribing at www.simillimum.com.

One must understand that Hahnemann was a man of deep compassion and was committed to a safer, gentler system of healing. The 'purging' mentality of the allopaths of his day, the - you have to get rid of the bad humor in your blood in order to get well - was the prime motivator which led him to pursue and develop a new system of healing.

The Aphorism that Snoopy has partially quoted above, when read in full, is explaining why there is a homoeopahtic aggravation the beginning hours of an acute case, but still a small one compared to that of the 'monstrously large' allopathic dose. In the following Aphorism Hahnemann states there should not be an exacerbation of the disease symptoms in the beginning of chronic treatment. Sadly, this 'aggravations are necessary before you get well' line that homoeopaths tell their patients is too commonly used to divert the patient's attention away from what is actually poor case management skills.

None of us are experts when we begin practising homoeopathy, and all of us (even if only admitted privately) have caused aggravations in patients. Nothing is a perfect process where human beings are involved. Whether an aggravation is caused by over-repetition of a low potency or high potency, well, it is still an aggravation.

I hope this background information is useful in helping you understand why there are differences in how people practise homoeopathy. I'm not sure of your level of homoeopathic knowledge, my apologies if it's old news.

Finally, I'd like to say that one doesn't speed up a cure by making an aggravation more intense. It just makes the patient miserable. It is your homoeopath's responsibility to hear your subjective symptoms clearly. They may be 'superficial' to him, but it seems they have caused you distress. This defines your susceptibility, sensitivity, and should help him to determine his case management strategy. He has to take his cues from you, not push you down a particular road because of an intellectual idea about how it should be.

You mentioned that you had this cough before the Nat mur was given. From this information alone he may have been better off prescribing an Apsoric plant remedy based on similarity of symptoms, rather than a deep acting mineral remedy. Once the present psoric explosion, (that is, your cold or flu symptoms) has been allayed, you would then be in a better position to work with the Nat mur, if still indicated.

Finally, sorry it's so long folks, please know that the LM scale just doesn't suit everybody. Hahnemann used Centesimals and LM's equally up to the end of his life. It is advisable to begin LM's with a test dose. This means you take one dose, then wait 2 or 3 days and report back to your homoeopath to gauge your responses. I sincerely hope you're feeling better by now, and that your faith in homoeopathy is not diminished.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
aggravation of a remedy Mia Homeopathy Discussion 13 3rd June 2004 04:04 AM
the confusion surrounding aggravation passkey Homeopathy Discussion 3 8th April 2004 04:41 PM
responce to aggravation felinum2002 Homeopathy Discussion 24 30th December 2002 01:56 PM
Dosing & Definitions Austin Powers Homeopathy Discussion 101 9th November 2002 11:18 PM
Homeopathic aggravation or Worsening? Hans Weitbrecht Homeopathy Discussion 18 20th October 2002 02:08 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:30 AM.



The information contained on OtherHealth.com arises by way of discussion between contributors and should not be treated as a substitute for the advice provided by your own personal physician or other health care professional. None of the contributions on this site are an endorsement by the site owners of any particular product, or a recommendation as to how to treat any particular disease or health-related condition. If you suspect you have a disease or health-related condition of any kind, you should contact your own health care professional immediately. Please read the BB Rules for further details.
Please consult personally with your own health care professional before starting any diet, exercise, supplementation or medication program.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2005-2012 otherhealth.com
For books in the UK visit our sister site Dealpond.com

SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2