I came sooooo close to getting my depressed husband w/MS to my homeopath but he's as stubborn and rigid as a mule and in the end wouldn't go.

I'm thinking of spiking his drinks (water) w/bach flower remedies. Homeopathy is too complicated for me at this point but I'd like to help him at least 'adjust his attitude', for both of our sakes.

Any feelings about these remedies from the esteemed homeopaths out there?

Please help!

-Contenta

Hi,
I'm neither esteemed nor a homeopath but I do use FE's quite often particularly in helping animals to adjust their attitudes! Has worked from agressive squirrels to pets mourning having been dumped by the people they loved. Unlike homeopathy, FEs really can't do damage even if the wrong one is used. In some cases where animals can't be handled to dose individually and live in a group, I put the FE in the water and the one who needed it responds and the others, who didn't need it, remain unchanged. I think the power of FEs is vastly overlooked. They are very curative and I think should play more of a roll in treatment.

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Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Contenta,

I've used flower remedies also and they can be helpful but are nowhere near as powerful as homeopathic medicines. There's also a danger of suppression but I certainly understand the desire to "spike his drink" . Flower Essence Society is a good source of flower remedies and they also carry the English (Bach) Essences as well. The Alaskan Essences are good too, very powerful and pure. You can find both of these on the internet. Good luck.

Hi Contenta,

I also think Bach Flower remedies are good to use when you need something quick and haven't got the liberty to do the full assesment you need for a homeopathic remedy. They can be used more generally--actually allopathically, because you're not really doing a "like cures like" thing with them. You are just giving a "specific" drug for a "specific" state of being, which is okay in a pinch when nothing else is possible.

What I think is more important is this: forcing your husband to see a homeopath (or dosing him when he's unaware, or manipulating him in any way) is not going to benefit anyone, and it will drive you crazy with frustration. Then it will drive the homeopath he sees crazy because he will not invest the necessary effort he or she needs to affect any kind of change in his condition.

In order for homeopathy to work, the patient must want to participate--its not a situation where you can be passive with a practitioner, and expect things to go well. It should be a conscious decision to undergo homeopathic treatment, especially where someone like your husband is concerned.

Until people decide that they will take responsibility for their own health and welfare, and do whatever is necessary for recovery, there can be no real cure. Many people are reluctant to work towards health again when they are in chronic illnesses because the illness itself has given them something for which they had some kind of unfulfilled need. This sounds heartless, but in reality, its not; what I'm saying is that people invest their diseases with all kinds of things, and many are loathe to "give them up" so easily because they don't know what living without the illness will mean for them, and they are afraid. It's not a new idea, it is one which is well studied and well understood (Caroline Myss has written some excellent books on this topic). Maybe, in your husband's case (and this is just a bunch of ideas to give you an example of what I mean) the illness he suffers from gives him a sense of security about his relationship with you, or it gives him the attention he may have been craving without it (because you have to act as his "manager" and "attendant" as well as his wife)....whatever it could be. But until he's ready to let go of whatever it is with which he's invested his illness, he won't get better. Conventional medicine happens to play right into this dynamic very well, because it can't really do much for people like your husband, and it demands nothing from its patients except 100% compliance. It operates on the belief that the patient is passive. Those who are actively set against the prognosis given by conventional medicine are more apt to incur its wrath than its help.

You, in the meantime, have a few options...but they must all be focused on how you will change yourself and acquire what it is you want for yourself. One big lesson, as you said recently in another post, was that you need to learn how to receive things from people, and be cared for by others...instead of giving constantly and focusing your life's energy on making sure everyone else can function more easily. You can continue on this journey for your own life--I think that it is great and it should be encouraged. You may want to undergo homeopathic treatment yourself to help you achieve those ends, as I think it would do wonders for you. You need to figure out how you got to where you are, and what you will need to move to a place where you are happier, more fulfilled, and healthier.

You wanna know something great? When you do make these changes for yourself, and "tend your own garden", to paraphrase Voltaire, you will create some change in your husband--and you won't even have to shed any effort to do this. I see this happen all the time when a good remedy takes effect...suddenly everyone in the household is altered by the subtle shift in dynamic. Perhaps then your husband will make the appropriate decisions and changes. Then he may come to you and ask you to take him to a homeopath...and only then will a homeopath really want to have anything to do with him.

Good luck, Contenta,
Divina

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...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

gpm and Tomi,

Thanks for your responses. I'll consider your good advice. I do think it would be easier for my to stick with the Bach Essences since there are not too many of them.

Thanks again,
Contenta

Dear Divina,

Okay, guilty as charged! I'm glad you responded, I was hoping you would.

What can I say, it was a last ditch effort before he goes to a big shot MS specialist in a few weeks. I figured it was now or never, once aggressive allopathy gets a hold of him homeopathy probably doesn't stand a chance.

In fact I am the one who made the allopathic appointment (8 month wait!) b/c he has done NOTHING to help himself and I was hoping for, at least, physical therapy. Conventional medicine is not for me but it's the only thing he will consider.

While I can imagine how unenlightened my behavior appears, trust me, I'm more evolved than it may seem. Of course there's plenty of room for improvement! I've been going to a homeopath for a few years (remember my bird dreams?)- that's who I was trying to get him to see. It's precisely b/c I'm doing so well that I made this botched attempt. What may seem like manipulative behavior, and I guess is, was an attempt on my part to take care of myself. I haven't resorted to 'manipulation' in years but I recently decided that I want to leave and I was advised try to get him as healthy as possible in the hope that he doesn't stress himself out about it and go on disability. (That would be such a mistake for him anyway.) I couldn't imagine any better way than homeopathy so... Well, there you go, the truth.

I myself have a serious health problem, a genetic disorder which among other things puts my vision at risk, and being on my own financially and otherwise is scary for me. I couldn't do it w/o some temporary alimony. I do feel strongly that leaving is what I need to do though. It feels right and these days I do what feels right to me.

I like what you said about homeopathy not working unless the person is willing, makes sense to me.

So here I am, quite exposed. Homepathy: it makes you so healthy that your present life can become a poor fit!

-Contenta

Double post....sorry.

[ 24 July 2001: Message edited by: gpm ]

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Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Hi Contenta,
I agree in theory with what has been said about one wanting to reach a healthy state in order for homeopathy to work. But I have seen it work when given surruptuously (where did spell check go?.

One friend of mine had a husband who was beginning to really scare her. Mean and gruff for years but began to rock back and forth in a dark room, muttering, stomping his feet on the floor. Now that's frightening. I gave her three pellets and told her to put one in his food spaced over a day. She put all three in his dinner. He ate. Stood up. Looked at his wife and said "why don't you sit down with me and we'll talk things out". Proceeded to have the best conversation they'd had in years. Was curtious and thoughtful. Listened to her every complaint and responded. Had never done this before.

Another friend has been married for 35 years to a drunk that abused her verbally all through their marriage. Most particularly in front of others. She was on a strick routine to provide meals at exactly the same time, etc. She had to cater to his every whim. She is 65 and felt she had no other choice regardless of how horrible he made her feel. She put a remedy in his dinner. He was polite the next day. First time that ever happened! She was going to be late getting his dinner and started to apologize. He stopped her saying that was OK, he'd just make them some sandwhiches because he knew she had been so busy all day. He stopped drinking on his way home from work. Didn't fall asleep in a drunken stupor immediately after eating his dinner as he had for years. She couldn't believe it. It was the nicest he had been to her for so long, she said he was actually nice to be with! (He did develop a bad "cold/flu" shortly after the remedy and it was the first he had ever been sick in his life.........physically, that is. He was so sick mentally, his body stayed well!)

My use of FEs and homeopathy is pretty much limited to animals, none of whom give their consent nor participate in their recovery knowingly. They still benefit from it, as do I when they become more healthy.

FEs are no problem to give and conjure no "black evil" thoughts for anyone. But keep in mind the recent case in Pa where the woman was sent to prison for attempting to poison her husband. She put Bell 6X in his mashed potatoes! And then told her friends she had tried to kill him! Now that was a bright woman.

So, if you do decide to spike the guy's food, don't tell anyone!

And about FEs. I sincerely question they aren't as curative as homeopathy since they produce the sense of mental well being that is the first symptom of healing in homeopathy.

Finally, a friend of mine who posts on another homeopathic BB, was diagnosed many years ago with MS. Of the group who was hospitalized with her, all suffering the same disease and all newly diagnosed, she was the only one to refuse allopathic treatment. I think she is the only one left of that group. She functions and is active. She has refused all regular medical care. Her instincts told her it would be an unwise choice.

By the way, Peter Chappell wrote a nice, easy to read book "Emotional Healing with Homeopathy" as did Castro for stress. Chappel, in another book, suggests flower essences as well as homeopathy.

Good luck in whatever avenue you decide to travel.

__________________
Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Dear gpm,

You MUST be a homeopath! What did you prescribe for the abusive guy who muttered, rocked back and forth and stomped his feet?
Stramonium?

Anyway, yes I agree with you--I also agree with Divina. You're both right. People who won't help themselves can sometimes be helped with homeopathy in a limited way, like when sul-ac. is put in the alcohoic's bottle, and he drinks and falls asleep instead of going on a rampage. This is great but a temporary solution. It's also true that you'll get successes like gpm described. The irony of homeopathy is, the crazier you are, the clearer the remedy picture becomes and the easier it is to find the exact remedy and perform the homeopathic miracle. The craziest cases are worth the attempt at giving a remedy because you have a real shot. If the MS in this case were an out-growth of a disorder on the mental plane, then prescribing for the mentals might cure this individual. If it's some sort of Never Well Since amalgam fillings or vaccinations, flu shots, something you can't put your finger on, prescribing might be more difficult.

However, it's always worth a try when you're in an abusive situation; even the Organon says, when talking about people with mental diseases, that the remedy is easily and best administered without the patient's knowledge.

The problem is, we don't really have the case; all we know is that this guy is rigid. We don't know what precipitated the MS. We don't really have a case, so I don't know what to recommend. Contenta, you might want to give us more info.

BTW, what remedy was given to the guy who insulted his wife in public--Lach? Nux v?

Snoopy

Hi Snoopy,
Thanks for not being critical of my giving rems to the unbeknownst. The problem with doing this is exactly what you sited. We can toss out a quick fix but unless the "caregiver" is willing and able to continue to give us information, it comes to a hault. It really bothered me that such remarkable changes occurred so quickly and the wives seemed to just take if for granted that was that. Tried to tell them to keep records so we could go on. Someone has to be interested enough to at least do a follow up!

I think most people just want the old allopathic approach. Present yourself, no particular coversation needed (see, I keep using small words because I can not spell anything and there is no spell check! I really have a better vocab than this, just can't spell those words!). Give them a pill and off they go. A woman called me the other night, never inquiring if I was busy or had time to listen to her. Proceeded to tell me about her dog. Licked his toe so badly that local vets gave up. Went to UofP vet hosp. Amputated toe. Put dog on antibiotics, cortisones and anti depressants. He began licking the same toe on the opposite foot. Told her about a homeopathic vet she might like to consult but said in the meantime to put hypercal ointment on toe and give sulph 6 or 30, what ever she could get at the health food store, which is owned by a supposed homeopath! They told her to use the "pet" sulpher, a 6 and 30 combo. She used it 3-4 times. Obsessed dog slept soundly, a new thing. He stopped licking the intact toe and went back to licking where the toe was that was amputated. In my ignorance, I was thinking that was a good thing and started telling her what I thought was going on.........you could here her mind click off. It was too much for her to grasp that she had to observe and participate. She cut me off saying there was a call waiting! She will take the dog back to UofP and end up having him put down, I'll bet.

The darkened room, foot banging, rocker without the rocking chair got Staph. The abusive guy was ( I thought we'd go on )Nux V. These were true occurances and almost blew my mind with the immediate responses. I thought the wives would be thrilled to continue on. Hey, maybe their husbands illnesses were their crutches, to bring it back to kind of what Divina was saying. Who knows.

I am becoming more reluctant to offer my free advice, be it what it may, and give away rems, though. I could get in a bit of legal difficulty and it also bothers me that they don't take the whole thing as seriously as I think they should! How can people witness such miacles and not be overwhelmed?

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Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.