Any thoughts on attempting to treat a rather pronounced heart murmer in a cat. Nervous about neuter appointment. No specific symptoms, murmer is not obvious until listened to (no detectible physical limitations).

Hi Krista,

First--you need a bit more information about the sounds you're hearing...see if you can describe them in a way which matches what I found in this synoptic key:

Heart, circulation and pulse, anxiety, with :

Aco., Arn., Ars., Aur., Calc-c., Carb-v., Dig., Pho., Plat., Pul., Spig., Sul., Ver-a.

Heart, circulation and pulse, heart-beat and pulse, intermittent :

Ars., Carb-v., Dig., Kali-c., Mur-ac., Nat-m., Pho-ac., Ver-a.


Heart, circulation and pulse, heart-beat and pulse, palpitation, anxious, nervous, etc. :

Aco., Ars., Aur., Cof., Cratae., Dig., Lach., Nat-m., Pho-ac., Pul., Spig., Val., Ver-a.


Or you could take a look at this synoptic key yourself at
http://homeoint.org/books2/bogersyn/heart.htm

Nothing in the rep's listing may represent the symptom you're seeing well enough, but it is worth a look into these old books on occasion. They can often be more precise where physical symptoms are concerned.

Anything else that's characteristic about this kitty?

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hi Kkrista,
One of the best remedies for a heart murmur is NAja.

We had a child with a large VSD that improved in 6 months when the pediatrician was sure he would need surgery. Of course there were other indications pointing to NAja here. BUt a cardiac murmur is one main indication.

hope this helps.

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Krista, I'm curious to know if the murmur just "started" out of nowhere, or if it was noted by someone before the impending surgery.

All the snake remedies are good heart remedies to consider, but there are so many to choose from and they are all very similar with important distinctions. Has this kitty been given remedies before?

Did you find anything in the synoptic rep?

[ 14. January 2004, 15:03: Message edited by: ChaChaHeels ]

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Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung

Thanks Cha and Leela. I have not heard of Naja, but will most definitly look into it.

As for cha's questions: The cat should have had his heart listened to while at the SPCA, but these days they are quite incompetent and I would suspect they never did rather than the murmUr is new. I will listen to it myself, according to the vet it is very pronounced and obvious (was checked when the cat was in for URD symptoms).

This kitty had been treated with merc 30ch and was also allopathically treated.

From experience and vet advice, he would probably survive the surgery just fine but as he gets older the murmUr may get worse and in fact lead to heart damage (we certainly have experience in this with our: still-living-thanks-to-ars-heart-patient Maggie, who initially was diagnosed with a serious murmUr and in later years delevoped enlargement, asma, lung problems etc). So I'm thinking that perhaps if we can treat while he is still young (approx 10-12 months currently), that it may not progress.

Currently the cat is doing well, he has a very sweet disposition as does his brother. They had been greatly negleted by their past owner and the spca and were quite a mess when I got them. They were so seriously dehydrated that I couldn't understand why they were still concious. Anyways they had been doing battle with URD (Probably a combination of viruses which probably includes chlamydia).

They finally appear well, other than the murmUr. I don't mind holding off on the surgery (even though their urine is getting mighty stinky!)and wouldn't do it for another month or so anyways, to make sure their bodies are well healed before hand.

I had a ton of chem homework lastnight, so other than a quick rx for a different URD cat, I didn't have time to read up on the heart stuff, maybe tonight. Will keep you posted .

[ 14. January 2004, 21:37: Message edited by: jonh ]

Naja is like "the 'nice' Lachesis"...or a snake remedy version of the dignified staphysagria.

If you look at the list of heart symptoms in the synoptic MM, you'll see lachesis listed among several of them having to do with palpitations, or irregular beats, intensity of that beating, etc. etc. In the naja remedy you'll see a difference in the sidedness of the case and the mental/emotional symptoms as well. Fascinating remedy!

Is this one of the cats who got the merc 30c on the other thread? Just asking.

__________________
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung

Hi Krista,

I'm quite sure that my contribution to this thread will be old news to you but posting it anyway!

With the horses, when they developed what we call *colic* (spasmatic/flatulent) it's not unusual to hear a *murmur*. When they recover, it disappears.

Is there a possibility that this kitty's former marasmus/dehydration (electrolyte imbalance/stress to body) is cause and with continued movement to better health might bring an end to the murmur?

My sister's cat had stenosis and incompetence of the tricuspid valve (murmur apically on right side) with all the complications that involves. Cat could be heard breathing throughout the entire house, lacked energy and appetite among other things. Vet suggested euthanasia as she was no youngster and was obviously very uncomfortable. She responded wonderfully to Convallaria 6C, living a number of years to an even older old age. The remedy was only repeated on a as need basis, which was very infrequent (think maybe about once a month) at first, for a few months and then was not required again. It's the only time I've ever used remedies for a vet diagnosed valvular disease.

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Here's a bunch of other heart remedies besides the snake rems and convallaria to consider:

cretageus
aurum
medorrhinum and puls (which have an interesting relationship to Merc, and may follow well)
digitalis
glonoine

wondering how things are going with this kitty so far..

Also, what do you think of GPM's post--that the murmur is a temporary symptom?

__________________
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung

Whoops.....I didn't mean to suggest Conv should be considered for Krista's kitty, just sharing about the one case. I used it for the symptoms at the time because the vet had provided information regarding the valvular difficulty and location of the murmur. I referred to the heart section from McLeod's horse book under valvular disease, stenosis and incompetence of tricuspid valve and got very lucky.

I'd have to think that the disappearance of symptoms, in that kitty's case was an improvement. She was quite old when symptoms were life threatening (she had been a rescue with a bad beginning in life, too) and lived a happy, bouncy life for years after.

__________________
Sometimes on Earth, you can find something that resembles a little piece of Heaven. And sometimes on Earth, a little piece of Heaven can find you.

Of course the disappearance of symptoms made a huge difference is eliminating the heart trouble...though it is interesting how the weakest organ was about to succumb under all the other stressors.

Maybe the real issue with this particular Kitty of Krista's is similar--just an accumulation of stressors (such as the dehydration Krista described...I wonder about a remedy like China in this situation, too) which have produced some symptoms in the most vulnerable deep organ.

Anyway, lovely to hear of yet another happy, healthy kitty--even following such hardships as the ones you describe, GPM.

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Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.<br />C.G.Jung