Hi All,
I'm working on an assignment here...and VERY frustrated....(perhaps I've read too much).

Anyone care to discuss the ranking of symptoms AND which are the most important??

I've read §153 - along with §'s 83,207, 209, 232, 251 (and 12-17).

Obviously when referencing §153 - the answer is Strange, Rare and Peculiar, BUT it isn't so simple I see from reading all the other sources....and I need to get my teeth round this (if anyone would mind sharing their understanding).

I also read Boenninghausen's Characteristic Value of Symptoms (can someone explain the orgin of the hexagram to me??), some lectures in Kent (III, IV and XI)....and about now, my brain is in overdrive.

I'm only supposed to write 2/3 pages, BUT after reading all this, I feel it should be a thesis!!

So, if anyone has some thoughts - please could you share them with me? Just trying make sense of this. Haven't had a lecture on this particular subject yet, so I'm not very knowledgable on this one .

Any help would be appreciated.

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

1.Mental Emotionals

2. Generals- mental and physical (I feel.....) e.g.dizzy (the whole person feels)

3.Particulars (My .... feels.....)e.g. my head feels dizzy (A part of the body)

SRP are important in any of these + you need to take into account the INTENSITY of the symptoms. If high it ranks high.

Symptoms which are COMMON to a disease are called WORTHLESS symptoms. You are looking for CHARACTERISTIC symptoms of that person.

Hope some of this helps.

[ 07 June 2001: Message edited by: Ricky ]

__________________
RSHom - Registered Homeopath

Thanks Ricky . I got that . I guess I'm just trying to come up with examples...and make it make sense - not just in abstract theory (got the linear thinking cap on).

So, if someone with psoriasis is really hampered by the skin trouble (thinking that since skin is least important BUT this is a troublesome ailment) and also has severe migraines that only come once a month. Then the skin ailment would be more important? (I think so..but hey, I'm open for discussion on this ).

Also, if you have someone who is mildy irritable but only say it is a PMS thing - but they have psoriasis which is a daily thing - is the skin thing most important?

Anyone is welcome to jump in here and have a hash with us. I'd like to know what David Kempson thinks too - because you and he always talk about how you sift the mentals or emotionals and the physicals take care of themselves. Got that - IF the patient's M/E's are more disturbing than the physicals - BUT what about when a person comes to you and is fairly balanced with good sleep, concentration, etc and is stable mood-wise - but is only having some physical complaints?? How do you approach that?

I'm thinking it would be the WHATEVER it is that is hampering them most....am I on the right track here ?

Many thanks for your reply, Ricky...anyone else please?

(in the meantime I've written 2 pages...and feel a bit less muzzy in the head having gotten some of my thoughts down..but still would like to hear more thoughts)

[ 07 June 2001: Message edited by: LisaAnnan ]

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

aph 211

"..the state of the disposition of the patient often chiefly determines the election of the homoeopathic remedy, as a decidedly characteristic symptom which can least of all remain concealed from the accurately observing physician."

aph 212

"...particular regard to this main feature of all diseases, the altered state of the disposition and the mind...

But even more than this, to some degree intensity and dynamis of the symptom must also guide you. If a particular has many modalities,and those modalities are unusual, then a particular may take the rank of a general, or even a mental.

__________________
David Kempson.<br />Dip.Homoeopathic Medicine.<br />Lecturer Australian College of Natural Therapies (Brisbane Campus)<br />Member AHA, AROH, HMA<br />Member Australian Homoeopathic Association. Member#0442.

"But even more than this, to some degree intensity and dynamis of the symptom must also guide you. If a particular has many modalities,and those modalities are unusual, then a particular may take the rank of a general, or even a mental."

Thanks David ...got the first part of your post . Obviously, we can't assume from one meeting with a patient that they are perfectly balanced M/E - but IF the physicals are the primary disturbance (would that then mean any slight irritability would be a RESULT of the physical??) with little to no M/E's - then what do you do??


Right - the end of your quote above ....help me out here , please. Could ya give me an example, though, pretty please. (I understand about intensity - degree of disturbance, but need an example to cement this...I'm getting there!!)

Thanks!

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Maybe this will help: here's a case I watched while in school...

a middle aged man (about 55 yrs old), originally from Europe, came in with his son (who was meant to translate any questions the man might have difficulty understanding). The man was quite short in stature: stocky, but definitely just about 5 feet tall. His teenaged son towered over him. Anyway, the man's main complaint was a psoriasis which he had suffered for 20 years, with no relief; it had started on his legs, and gradually moved upwards to cover even his chest and arms. He had been placed on a steroid cream for treatment, but the cream was no longer working; and he was so ashamed of the psoriasis he hated to wear shorts in the summer because it was just so ugly--he didn't want to have to subject other people to seeing it. Also, he suffered from hypertension, so he was taking a medication for that problem as well as some form of heartburn prescription medicine. He generally suffered from persistent itchiness, worse after taking any kind of shower or bath; and, he was worried about the high blood pressure...but, other things came out during the case taking, such as a singular distaste for signing his name on any kind of document, particularly if he felt that someone was waiting for him to do this (the example he sited was while doing business with a teller at the bank, or signing his income tax forms before sending them off in the mail). He would suddenly be unable to sign his name "properly" or legibly.

During the consultation, he was charming in a very child-like sort of way--affable, animated and gesticulative, very friendly towards the homeopath, and evidently loving (jokingly conversing with his son, they bantered back and forth as two boys would do) toward his son. He would often giggle when he answered, or make a "cute" kind of face and or sometimes, shield his face unconsciously when he considered something which actually made him laugh, or made him divulge something he thought particularly revealing.

It came out from his son's observations that the man was constantly rushing around "doing" things--always working on a project of some kind, constantly fiddling and building and painting and cooking and bantering with his wife at every opportunity. He would be constantly on the move, from the moment he got up until after he went to bed. There, once asleep, he would often get this odd cramp in his leg--a weird twitching that would sometimes wake him. The only way to make it stop was to get up and rush around again...so his sleep was limited by this "hurried" feeling. At one point, the homeopath asked the son to leave the consulting room, and then he asked the man about his sex life...any problems?

The little man giggled, momentarily covered his face with both hands, then leaned toward the homeopath and "mock whispered" (you know, hand covering the side of his face while he took the homeopath into his "confidence") that he would like to have sex more often, but he was unable to. He was suffering from impotence.

Here were the most important symptoms in their hierarchy, which led to an excellent remedy for him:

from observation, we could see much of his mental state---childlike and a bit childish! Also, a feeling of being hurried or rushed, based on a long-ago remembered embarassment in school, where a teacher hit him for not answering his test questions quickly enough. This was the reason why he felt so nervous about signing his name on documents, (another important mental emotional symptom) while he felt others were waiting for him to finish up...which carried over into his restlessness and his constant working.

Next, the physical generals (food cravings, effects of weather and environment on everything, etc: and then the particulars. the all over psoriasis was considered as it effected the whole body; and its aspects as a complete symptom (sensation, location, aetiology, modalities, concommitants) were considered for any "characteristic" properties. The impotence, and the cramping leg (also as complete symptoms--sensation, location, aetiology, modalities, concommitants) were factored in last.

The prescription was for Baryta Sulf, 200c one dose--he was sent home and asked to communicate with his doctor about the hypertension drugs and monitoring his blood pressure on a daily basis.

6 weeks later: he was still childlike and charming; but his psoriasis was beginning to clear up and move back down his body; there was a great improvement in itchiness, too. His blood pressure dropped and remained stable, as his doctor had verified...so they agreed to begin weaning him off the medications and to continue monitoring the progress. His anxiety about the hurriedness he was experiencing lessened considerably (no more shaky hands while signing his name at the bank) and, finally, he was able to make love to his wife for the first time in over 2 years (that was divulged when his son was once again sent forth from the consultation room).

So, clearly, the observable mental/emotional symptoms were first in the hierarchy (with the strange symptom of childlike silliness in a grown man being the most important, and the hurriedness "as if shamed into rushing" next); then the physical generals; and then the particulars last.

Divina

__________________
...and deliverance has many faces<br />but grace<br />is an aquaintance of mine

Dear Lisa,

As everyone's been saying lately--
deep breath!

1.Etiology, when clear
2.Onset (this can be very helpful, as anything with a sudden onset, you immediately think of bell., aco. and baptisia)
3. Mental/emotionals as they depart from normal
4. Physical Generals
5. Local symptoms
a. location
b. sensation
c. modalities (a consistant modality becomes a general--like if cold makes everything the person has worse, and not just the headache).
(1) modalities of temperature and weather
(2) modalities of time (aggravation time)
(3) modalities of rest or motion
(4) modalities of position of the body
(5) modalities of eating or drinking
(6) modalities of stimuli--like noise, odors, touch, feel of clothing, conversation, etc.

There are those who say the Delusion should be at the top of the hierarchy (Rajan Sankaran and Luc De Schepper) and that the Strange, Rare and Peculiar (Characterisic
Symptoms) should come next.

What are characteristic symptoms?
1. They are odd in and of themselves.
2. They are out of place in the disease.
3. They are either more or less intense than what is expected.
4. They are keynotes of remedies.
5. They are concomitants.
6. They have modalities.
7. They are etiological.
8. They are mental/emotionals--all other things being equal.
9. They are strong and bothersome to the patient.

If there is deep or intense pathology, then the whole hierarchy gets turned on its head, and the local symptoms become most important, with the M/E's becoming least important. That's because now, the physical disease is giving rise to the mentals instead of the other way around. The person is depressed because he has a disease, the disease has not developed out of a grief, a humiliation, etc.

So, for example, someone has an acute--diarrhea or something. We don't have to ask about their childhood or whether or not they're romantic or fastidious, and so on, we have to ask about: the onset, the etiology (was it caused by sweets, bad water, etc.?), the sensation, the discharge, the modalities, etc. and the M/E's to the extent that they are different from their normal state. You might think this is obvious, but I've seen many times a person will write in with such a problem to this board, and invariably someone will say, "You have to tell us all about yourself...."

Common symptoms--they're not entirely irrelevant. Fever is a common symptom, but the remedy will have to be a fever remedy. In other words, the state of the person can't be ignored. So, usually there's a differential for every state--remedies that have an affinity for certain states, organs or systems, and then within that differential, one of those remedies will be like your patient--better cold, worse warm stuffy rooms, etc.

I feel like you Lisa, I feel like I've read too much!

Snoopy

Dear Lisa,

you are getting a flood of information now.

If a case has no real mentals of any intensity or importance, then I use generals. I have solved some very difficult cases this way, when the patient is actually quite balanced emotionally. It is important not to get fixed on one particular way of diagnosis, as each patient comes to you as a new universe to be explored.

As an example of a particular you can raise to a general, I recently saw a patient with migraines. I was tossing up between Staph and Nat-mur, who I think can look alot alike emotionally. However, the migraines had many different expressions - cutting like a knife being dragged through her forehead, maddening pain, worse light, acitvity, company, better when lying in a dark room, aching extends into the bones of the head, visual disturbances etc. This showed that alot of energy was being dedicated to this part of her illness, and it must be trying to solve something by creating it. Thus I used the migraine as I would a general, and ranked it high up the list, thus coming to Nat-mur.

__________________
David Kempson.<br />Dip.Homoeopathic Medicine.<br />Lecturer Australian College of Natural Therapies (Brisbane Campus)<br />Member AHA, AROH, HMA<br />Member Australian Homoeopathic Association. Member#0442.

Hi Lisa
thought I'd throw this in, from my teaching notes..ie..one teachers view on how to work a case;

1. S.R.P
2. N.B.W.S (never been well since)
3. Modalities
4. Particulars (mentals, emotional, physical, in that order)
5. Generals
6. Themes & essences.

Louise

Thanks SO MUCH, everyone - much much appreciated. It is coming clearer now.

Right - off to finish this paper now!

Cheers,

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham