As for the swallowing, again another fear, of choking this time. A tiny episode of choking (not bad, no Heimlich needed, just tried to swallow and felt like swallowing mechanism wouldn't work while food was halfway down) while at lunch some 17 years ago, and that set this off. In fact, this was terribly bad prior to the vomiting phobia becoming so severe, could swallow absolutely nothing without chewing it to mush, almost liquid, and swallowing it with a drink....we're talking even pudding couldn't be swallowed for fear of choking. Now, can swallow more things without drinking, but mostly things that are soft and dissolve more easily, like cake or cookies, and now pudding, ice cream, yogurt, mashed potatoes etc. can all be eaten/swallowed without the liquid....but always has a drink nearby, just in case. There was the lump in the throat feeling during the height of this, but with so much attention paid to the throat and swallowing it would seem natural to me to develop a feeling of a lump or being 'aware' of the throat, maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe still has it, not sure, "tongue is large and wide, the back of it sometimes feels like it's filling the back of my throat or too big for my throat, need to swallow a lot from this feeling" so who knows? What with throat constriction feeling, large tongue, anyone's guess what it really is from.

Interesting note-was never able to swallow skins of fruit, orange sections, chewy meat like steak even as a child. Used to chew it for the flavor then spit it out. Felt like they just wouldn't "chew up enough to swallow."

Kind of odd now that I think of it...a fear of things coming up and also a fear that things won't go down....from the same place in the body.

Sunny

[This message has been edited by Sunny (edited 10 January 2001).]

Yes, very odd--and just the kind of oddness you look for in a case.

Now if you could find the remedy with a fear of choking on food being eaten (I know there is one for the skin of fruit! Can't remember it off hand!) and a fear of vomiting--you'd have the remedy.

Divina

You, can not, i say not, use the rubric , delirium, on this case, as what you have described is not a delirium!
And, where are the rest of the ananmensis???, the bodysymptomes, that may confirm a remedychoice?
Pschycological guesswork, has not ever been homeoapthy, and will never be!
Also take a peak at the rubrics self destructive, self injurie.

According to good old Merriam-Webster, I got:

Delirium - 1. a mental disturbance characterized by confusion, disordered speech and hallucinations; 2. frenzied excitement

Frenzy - 1a. a temporary madness b. a violent mental or emotional agitation

Hysteria - behavior exhibiting overwhelming or unmanageable fear or emotional excess

Kind of interchangeable depending upon who is choosing the word. I'd venture a guess that if someone saw a woman running through the streets at night in her pj's with a bottle of whiskey in one hand, gagging and retching, praying and talking incoherently to herself, well....one may say she's delirious (and probably lots of other things ) for lack of a better word, don't you think?

Many provings were made so very long ago, and language has changed over the years. Heat=fever being a good example. Most don't say they have heat, but that they have a fever. Being rather subjective, hysteria could have equally been described as delirium, and vice versa. If you've ever seen anyone having a severe panic attack or facing their worst fear, you may be as likely to say they are delirious as you would maniacal or hysterical or frenzied in their behavior.

The body symptoms, well that wasn't what this was about (though many do match). This was about getting help with the essence of this phobia, digging a little deeper than the actual phobia itself, and I think the reaction to the phobia is essential. I'm certainly not saying the case is solved by any stretch, or that all I've said is correct, but I think it's worth a listen.

Will certainly take a look at self destructive and self injury. The self injury though was only a few occasions during a "frenzy" from panic, no real impulse or desire to self injure, no excitement from it, no feelings of worthlessness that would lead one to inflict harm on themselves, not your typical 'cutter' as they say.

Anyway...onward ho!
Sunny

Sunny wrote:
"gagging and retching, praying and talking incoherently to herself"

Mind, praying, vomiting, constantly during paroxysm of: Med - single remedy rubric

When doid this become delirum?" Has gone off in a frenzy when this gagging
sensation comes, from running through the street in pajamas to self inflicting injury to cause pain elsewhere
that would take mind off stomach and throat. If anyone nearby looks funny, they're always asked if they're
sick, and when anyone says they're sick, they're always asked if it's their stomach. Always wants to know if
someone is sick to their stomach-kind of like watching a train wreck, you don't want to see but can't help
looking. "
Please, do define FRENZY, and define why she has that frenzy,
its simple, its cause she is about to loose controll.the frenzy, is a controlling act! BAH!
Work sometime in a looney bin, and youll get to know whats what!

And when did mania a potu, become delirum?? Its two different rubrics, and two different symptomes!
So, every time, a normal being gets drunk, their delirious??
Will you please get down to earth..between common people.
Or are your enviroment free of common people??? Its in fact the composition of most of ouer patients, please, do show some respect for the patients!

------------------
Homeopat MNNH Geir Marcussen.
http://members.home.net/franske/naturalway.html
e-mail. getm@eunet.no

Hey, Sunny,

Yikes! I'd say you have a patient who is so afraid of vomitting it has been known to send her into a frenzy. Technically, this is not 100% the same thing as a delirium...because there really are no synonyms in the english language...BUT, I would say this behaviour is not a typical "control" response to vomitting. How about you? No? I didn't think so. The patient seems to be quite disturbed by the fear--enough to go running into the streets, bottle in hand for whatever reason, dressed in her pyjamas. It could be interpretted as similar to the definition given for delirium in merriam-webster's dictionary. To be realy picky, I'd get the OED's definition of the word, but you have to subscribe to get it on-line, and I don't have one handy otherwise...

Anyway, the belladonna rem still might be a contender, if the rest of the symtpoms match too. Control is a huge issue in many remedies like Nat Mur, Arsenicum, Carc, Sepia, Silica, etc--and the hysteria you're seeing in this patient is just another manifestation of the desire to control. If the Bell fits the whole picture, then why not?

Divina

Hey Divina,

Thanks, I'm glad to know you *get* what I'm saying about the descriptive words and the interchanging of them based on the prover, observer, etc. I thought maybe I was delirious....... I do realize it's likely not clinically called delirium, but I figured the provers and such were likely not carrying a clinical dictionary at the time and well, who knows what word I'd use if I witnessed anything like the night time pj episode. And, if you take out the delirium rubrics, bell is still in 5 others. By the way, bell is in mania-a-potu with a 2, just informational stuff, ya know? Again not saying bell is the one, lots to consider here. A question - what do you think of Asafoetida? Big on hysteria.

The control issue is definite. Nat, ars and sep have been tried in several potencies with no luck. Maybe wrong potencies, maybe antidoted, not sure now. Carc could be indicated somewhere, some fits there.

And Anna, I feel the gentle niggling towards Med however that too has been tried with no change. I see it though, and maybe it's under this hysteria and phobia somewhere. Will definitely keep it in mind.

GM, silly you, I am down to earth and often surrounded by "common" people

Thanks everyone,
Sunny

Hi Sunny,

Mania-a-potu-, I have to say, is what we here in NA in the 21st century know as "Delirium Tremens"--"the shakes" that alcoholics get when they physically require alcohol. It is not a "run in the streets" kind of mania.
Asafoetida may be big on hysteria, but its way bigger on gas....! Intestinal gas, that is...so without that in the picture I'd rule it out.

Does your claque of the common people also include the occasional Divine ones?

Divina

Miss Divina...yes, I know that mania-a-potu isn't part of this picture, no drinking at all here despite the bottle carrying incident, but since GM mentioned it, though I wasn't sure why, and it did have bell in the picture, I thought it rather ironic, considering......well, ya know!!

You may certainly be a part of the gaggle of common people I know, if you like, as some Divine ones are........but I kinda don't think you'd want to...a motley crew they are

The Sunny one