I agree with Pat 100% on getting the baby to take in the nipple+aereola! This is a must if one is to breastfeed without pain.

I learned this from a lovely lacatation counselor...who patiently but firmly showed me how to hold the baby's body against mine...not her side to my body...but abdomen to abdomen.

My right hand held my breast as Pat described...while my left hand held baby's head from behind...and when I brushed her cheek with my nipple..she rooted and grunted...and I timed it so that when I shoved her mouth to my breast - her mouth was gaping...and I had to make sure I shoved her quite firmly onto the breast to ensure she wasn't just taking in the tip of the nipple!!

Ouch - that is SORE SORE SORE...

But, even with sore nipples - when I managed to get this technique down...in a few feeds (!), I noticed that even my sore nipples didn't hurt while feeding, as long as baby was latched on properly.

Tell her to hang in there...
Lisa

Chops, if I have 'em will you be my consultant?

The baby just hasn't learnt how to breast feed yet. The baby should (jaw you with the) gums rather than suck, then you will not hurt. That is the babys gums (jaw) should do the work. As already mentioned, hold the baby high towards you and hold the breast with two fingers behind the aereola and put this whole area in his mouth. You may need two pillows on you lap to start with. When the baby presses on this area the milk will come out in spirts. There is no stress on the nipple then. If the child stops nursing you can still keep feeding manually with pressing this area yourself, using the two fingers like opening and closing scissors. Some infants take up to five or six weeks to learn. If you have lots of milk stop the bottles because baby will take the easy way out. This is the hardest time, stay with it.

Hope you get the picture. Sorry I can't demonstrate. Ha Ha Ha

[This message has been edited by cib (edited 21 June 2000).]

aaaaawwwwwwwww shucks thar Anna !

course I would...and you know that's my next ambition - to be a midwife tooooooo! yipeeeeeee - delivering babies along with Homeopathy!

And,hey...I wrote a thesis on breastfeeding in college, some years back...and got an A! It was quite funny to see the guy's reaction to it...the all squirmed...and it was hilarious - cuz you know Americans just CAN'T look at breasts for anything other than one function!....and I can only imagine that I SMASHED their images of this!!

sorry cib, but I beg to differ on the 'gums'...it is actually the baby's jaw that does the work...

anyhow, I agree that it can take some time...and getting rid of the bottle lock-stock-and-barrel is the only way to get this resolved.....that is...if the mum wants this badly enough.

Sadly, so many today take the easy way out....cuz we're such a get-it-now society....but then those who persevere can appreciate the joys that come with success!

Anyhow - it is best to be totally honest with the mum and explain that the sooner she gives up the bottle...and practises the technique of getting baby to latch on properly, the better - and, then she'll see that the baby will settle and not cry so much, as the milk will just flow, flow, flow..and the work won't be so hard for the baby then.

It's a vicous cycle that new mum's get into.

When I had my 2nd baby, I was ADAMANT that the nurses didn't try to give my son a bottle!!!!!

Lisa

Lisa. Yes. It is the jaw!

[This message has been edited by cib (edited 21 June 2000).]

by all means express excess milk and freeze it .......that way you have some ready for later so you can go out and leave Granny etc in charge ........meanwhile your baby WILL NOT GO HUNGRY FOR LONG .......if all thats offered is the breast and as the others have said hold the breast to ensure right bit is in babys mouth plus use spare finger to stroke under the babys chin this keeps up the reflex action of the jaw especially in a sleepy baby .

I breastfed 2 daughters they have breastfed 4 children 2 of the were twins .......try that for mind boggling ....definitely need a pile of pillows to perch them on

Thanks for all the replies!!

I too have breastfed my two girls, my youngest is 8mo and I am nursing her still. Luckily my pain was never severe and my little ones were good at latching on from the beginning.

Here's a question. When my four year old was born I nursed for a year as recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics. Now that my little one is here they reccomend nursing for 2 years. Just wondering what everyone's thoughts may be.

It took my son and I 5 weeks to get the hang of breastfeeding.

The advice here on technique is very important, but if she is in pain and having problems some "in person" help from a properly trained breastfeeding counsellor will it vital, or at the very least some help from another mother who has done it succesfully.

If you are are in the USA La Leche League (LLL) is the contact, if UK the National Childbirth Trust or LLL.

And the creams you can rub in, don't. They contain a number of things you don't want a baby to consume such as peanut oil. Some of my friends from my SANDS group (Stillbirth And Neonatal Death Society) used cabbge leaves to dry up their milk very quickly so please beware of that.

Fresh air on the nipples and gently massaging in the breastmilk heled me a lot. I also found a cold compress over my breasts when they felt like they were exploding helped (although some say a warm compress).

It is such an emotive topic, but it really is worth persisting. I hope your friend gets it sorted.

Janyce

here we go again....bet native american indian mammas will get a mention....